Thermos

I've replaced the rear rotors+pads on my 05 TSX this weekend because I had uneven pad and rotor wear. I was mostly successful but I fear that the calipers are an additional problem. They might either be seized up or it could be another problem. I noticed that my rear rotors get as hot or hotter than fronts, leading me to believe that something is stuck. My question is, how hard should it be to push the pads into the shoes when replacing them? I had to really force the old pads out of there and force the new ones in and bang with a hammer. The parts that were making them hard to put in were the Retainers (#21 in the picture below). Should I remove 1 of them to make the pads sit in there more freely? or maybe sand down the pads on the side to achieve better fitment? I intend to take the calipers apart again and re-grease the pins, but I feel like it's more than a seized caliper. Please help..

huludicidal

You should not remove the shims. They should be clean and shiny though. The pads fit in the bracket nice and tight and can be difficult to remove, which is normal. You should use Honda hi temp urea grease to lubricate the slider pins and the shims/pad tabs. Also, you're not pushing the pads into shoes as you describe. A brake shoe is the friction part of a drum brake system. You're inserting the pads into the caliper bracket.

Thermos

Oops, you're right. I used the wrong term. I meant the caliper bracket, not shoes. So I guess I'll take the thing apart, lightly sand the rust off the shims, lube them up, and lube up the pins, and see if it fixes the problem. Do the pins just pull out of the housing or do they unscrew out of it?

Mskierki

Did the piston go back into the caliper easily? If so, it is not a stuck caliper. You might have an issue with the pins.

When installing the pads you should not have to hit anything with a hammer. They should be tight but still be able to move. Are the pads sitting evenly in the bracket?

Who is the manufacturer for the products that you are using?

Also, part #3 are the shims and they should be replaced with the pads. They should be in the same box as the pads.

Thermos

The shims DID come with the pads and they were already on them so that should be good. The piston went back with a bit of pressure (using the piston tool), which I think is normal. I used these Raybestos pads and some generic rotors.

huludicidal

Part #3 are the pad shims. Part #21 is the bracket shim. If you bought shimless pads, you don't need #3.

The slider pins should move with ease and are not secured to the bracket in any way. If they are stiff, do not move, or do not separate from the bracket, you have a problem. Typically what I do is pull out the pins (one at a time, they're location specific) and wipe them dry and depending on their condition, clean them up with some emery cloth. Then lube them up with Honda urea and install them. Then I do the same with the bracket shims. They should be nice and shiny before you dab them with grease.

Thermos

huludicidal: I'm gonna do exactly that tonight. I just ran over to the store to pick up some synthetic caliper grease and some steel brush to shave off the rust from the pad holder. Like I said, the shims came with the pads so that part is fine. The bracket shims were pretty rusty so I'm gonna use some light sandpaper to get them clean and then re-lube everything. I really hope it fixes my problems so I don't have to take it to a mechanic for inspection. I'll report back.

dP-

I had the very same problem with the pads going in only with some force. See thread: https://acurazine.com/forums/1g-tsx-2004-2008-124/rear-brake-change-caliper-pins-774925/.
I had cleaned the retainer clips as best as I could, but was unable to get them to a like new (shiny) state. I was thinking about even buying some new ones, figuring the cost is probably so low, have you looked into that?

What was your original problem with the pads? My outboard pad had worn nearly to the pad shim while the inboard pad still had material on it higher than the wear indicator.

I'm in Toronto as well, and figure the weather is to blame here to cause this.

Thermos

dP - I just got back from taking everything apart. I removed the pins, cleaned the dirty grease from the inside and applied new grease. Also sanded down the retainer clips, to remove rust, and lubed those up as well. I found my pads to go in easier this time and I'm planning to go for a little drive soon to see if anything improved. The original problem with mine was that I had the rear rotors replaced but not the pads. 1 year later and the pads were worn out unevenly and were making contact with half the rotor..

P.S

I've moved to Montreal a year ago and it's even worse here. I have no choice but to keep the car outside and they salt the roads here heavily. I'm wouldn't be surprised if things seized up again after next winter :S

Thermos

So I think re-lubing the parts made things better. I've put the car in Neutral on a slight slant and it slowly started rolling back, meaning that the pads can't be rubbing, or at least not TOO much. I HAVE noticed however that the outer pad on the rear passenger side is not rubbing off as much as the one on the driver's side. The one the driver's side is smoother whereas the other one still has that very light criss/cross pattern from when I first put it on. Could there be something wrong with the piston not pushing hard enough?

Can I test if the piston comes out easily by taking off that caliper, turning on the car, and pushing on the brakes lightly? I just want to see if it moves out or whether it is sticking or something,,

huludicidal

All floating caliper setups are set up so the pads rub without pressure. When you jack the car up and spin the wheels, you should hear the pads dragging but it should not be difficult to turn the wheels. It can be difficult to diagnose what you are describing, especially on our cars with VSA.

First, are you certain that the slider pins are all lubed and sliding freely (and that you didn't mix them up when you put them back in the bracket)?

On a flat and even road surface, does applying the e-brake while coasting cause the car to veer in one direction? (ignore incessant beeping)

The last thing I'd do is pull the caliper off (the one that you think is stuck) and insert a 2"x2" piece of wood between the caliper piston and caliper (where the pads sit) and press on the brake lightly without the car on. You should definitely see the piston travel against the wood.

If everything checks out, everything is working properly.

Thermos

huludicidal - I actually am not sure if I mixed up the pins. I remember one having flat sides across from each other and the other being perfectly round. When I looked into the holes I couldn't see any difference. Do you know which one goes into which hole? I haven't tried that handbrake procedure but I guess I should...

huludicidal

The pin with the flat sides goes in the bottom slot.

Thermos

I'll have to double-check mine. Any idea what difference it makes?

huludicidal

I don't know what/why they're different but I remember reading in the manual that if you mix them up, you may get uneven brake pad wear.

dP-

Thermos did you get everything working ok afterall?

Thermos

I am going to make sure that I put the pins in the proper order tonight and see why one of them is not rubbing off as much on the outer part as the other..

Other than that they seem to be wearing off on the rotors evenly. Only time will tell from now but it's definitely better after I've re-lubricated the parts.

npolite

Have you been replacing the brake fluid every 3 years? Even if you didn't I don't think that would have seized completely yet but I'm basing it from Honda calipers of the 90's. The other thing to be sure you have is that the pin on the rear inner pad fits into the groove of the cross on the piston. I must have been very lucky because for 5 years I never paid attention to it and it always slid into place. On my sister's Accord I replaced them once and it happened. I know now but that is one thing that may be overlooked.

Thermos

So it turns out that I DID have the pins backwards. The one with grooves was in the top slots so I've changed them.

npolite: I have made sure that the piston cross fits in with the groove on the pad. And I replaced my brake fluid slightly late but that's because I bought the car when it was 3 years old already and the first owner did not do it. I will do it more frequently from now on though

TINAANDSCOTT

I'm working on my rear breaks and I don't have the "special" tool need for the calipers, I can turn the cylinder with the end of a crowbar, but not sure on any adjustment required.

TS

pknuts

You can rent the tool auto zone. it does not cost anything you just have to leave a deposit, it is way easier.

Thermos

If you are careful, you probably don't need the tool. It just makes it much easier to turn the piston back in. The tool cost me $15 CND here.. should be cheaper in the US