May be able to use VAFC after all with this
07-05-2005, 08:46 PM
#1
Moderator
Regional Coordinator (Southeast)
Regional Coordinator (Southeast)
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Mooresville, NC
Age: 38
Posts: 43,563
Received 3,763 Likes
on
2,538 Posts
May be able to use VAFC after all with this
Installation of an APEX’i V-AFC unit typically requires the very expensive vehicle cabin harness to be cut and spliced into. Boomslang Plug-n-Play harnesses come complete with the V-AFC plug and wires already installed into an adapter harness for an ultra easy, ultra clean installation. No cutting or splicing required – truly Plug-n-Play
http://kingmotorsports.com/product.a...55&vehicle=TSX
http://kingmotorsports.com/product.a...55&vehicle=TSX
07-06-2005, 07:12 AM
#4
Moderator
Regional Coordinator (Southeast)
Regional Coordinator (Southeast)
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Mooresville, NC
Age: 38
Posts: 43,563
Received 3,763 Likes
on
2,538 Posts
Originally Posted by 04_K24TSX
hmm, interesting. Who's gonna be the guinea pig?
07-06-2005, 09:04 AM
#5
Originally Posted by CCColtsicehockey
Installation of an APEX’i V-AFC unit typically requires the very expensive vehicle cabin harness to be cut and spliced into. Boomslang Plug-n-Play harnesses come complete with the V-AFC plug and wires already installed into an adapter harness for an ultra easy, ultra clean installation. No cutting or splicing required – truly Plug-n-Play
http://kingmotorsports.com/product.a...55&vehicle=TSX
http://kingmotorsports.com/product.a...55&vehicle=TSX
Is that all that was keeping you guys from running a vafc?
You did not want to cut any wires?
07-06-2005, 12:11 PM
#7
Moderator
Regional Coordinator (Southeast)
Regional Coordinator (Southeast)
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Mooresville, NC
Age: 38
Posts: 43,563
Received 3,763 Likes
on
2,538 Posts
Originally Posted by MrHeeltoe
Is that all that was keeping you guys from running a vafc?
You did not want to cut any wires?
You did not want to cut any wires?
Trending Topics
07-06-2005, 02:43 PM
#9
Drifting
checked out the manufacturer's webpage and there is no listing of this being used with the TSX as of yet..
http://www.boomslang.us/vafc.htm
although if you go to the drop down box it does show a vafc-2 for 03-05 accord k24
http://www.boomslang.us/vafc.htm
although if you go to the drop down box it does show a vafc-2 for 03-05 accord k24
07-06-2005, 03:37 PM
#11
By adding fuel with a vafc, the ecu has a tendancy to advance the ignition....sometimes more than you want....
Why don't you just wire the VAFC in normally? You should not need a goofy harness for this...
We have teh ECU pinouts if anyone needs them...
Why don't you just wire the VAFC in normally? You should not need a goofy harness for this...
We have teh ECU pinouts if anyone needs them...
07-06-2005, 03:46 PM
#12
WAS HONDATAFIED IN
mr. heeltoe, could post the pinouts, or pm them to me, also i know you are putting off the turbo, but what were you gonna use to tune it, would a vafc do the trick........
07-06-2005, 04:10 PM
#13
Drifting
just got off the phone with Rustin of Boomslang. He stated that he doesn't currently have an application for the tsx... he would def research it and get back to me...
07-06-2005, 05:46 PM
#14
Moderator
Regional Coordinator (Southeast)
Regional Coordinator (Southeast)
Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Mooresville, NC
Age: 38
Posts: 43,563
Received 3,763 Likes
on
2,538 Posts
Originally Posted by jmathew34
just got off the phone with Rustin of Boomslang. He stated that he doesn't currently have an application for the tsx... he would def research it and get back to me...
hope we hear from him soon
07-06-2005, 06:13 PM
#15
Bye TSX, hello domestic?
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: NOVA
Age: 42
Posts: 8,552
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by MrHeeltoe
By adding fuel with a vafc, the ecu has a tendancy to advance the ignition....sometimes more than you want....
Why don't you just wire the VAFC in normally? You should not need a goofy harness for this...
We have teh ECU pinouts if anyone needs them...
Why don't you just wire the VAFC in normally? You should not need a goofy harness for this...
We have teh ECU pinouts if anyone needs them...
), but he ended up needing to buy a new ECU b/c he screwed it up... not that that'll happen to everyone
07-06-2005, 08:51 PM
#16
Drives With Hands
Originally Posted by jmathew34
just got off the phone with Rustin of Boomslang. He stated that he doesn't currently have an application for the tsx... he would def research it and get back to me...
07-08-2005, 12:27 AM
#17
Stokeless
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: South East Daygo
Age: 45
Posts: 2,856
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Heel toe have you sucessfully installed a VAFC yet? I have one just sitting and might try again or make a shop do it so if they fry my ECU or harness they will have to replace it. Let me know.
07-08-2005, 09:30 AM
#18
Originally Posted by NightHawk CL9
mr. heeltoe, could post the pinouts, or pm them to me, also i know you are putting off the turbo, but what were you gonna use to tune it, would a vafc do the trick........
I will get working on getting the pinouts for you guys....
I have never put one in a TSX, but I am just wondering why it would not work....
The tubro kit would need to use some sort of piggyback or reflash. Still figuring that out.
07-13-2005, 11:52 AM
#20
Stokeless
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: South East Daygo
Age: 45
Posts: 2,856
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Jtso if i remember correctly on the TSX there is 2 throttle signals. I wanna say one is white and green and the other is blue and something. I can't remember it has been over a year. That is what screwed me up. I could get it to monitor everything but when i hit the gas there was a huge delay and then it would bog out. It only worked if i pressed the gas EXTREMELY slow. That is the only way it didn't bog out and die. I will try again eventually but not for a whle 1100 bucks for a new ECU after that fried the last one....I really don't want to fork out that much again lol.
07-13-2005, 11:14 PM
#23
Drives With Hands
Pardon my ignorance, but what sort of functionality increase will a VAFC yield in our vehicles? This doesn't sound like it has the ability to manipulate fuel flow to the engine to enable the use of FI. What else can this thing do?
07-14-2005, 12:57 AM
#24
The VAFC controls fuel by modifying the MAP sensor signal. It's a lower cost and popular piggyback solution with limited functions for FI setups. How well it works for the TSX is a different story...
http://www.apexi-usa.com/product_ele...=201&pageNum=1
http://www.apexi-usa.com/product_ele...=201&pageNum=1
07-29-2005, 03:20 PM
#27
Drifting
IF anyone on the TSX board with a manual tranny and a VAFC-2 is interested in this harness, please contact Rustin with Boomslang. He stated that he has been talking with APEX'i and there is a way to get the VAFC-2 working with the TSX and their harness.
Rustin - Boomslang
314-276-8408
Rustin - Boomslang
314-276-8408
07-29-2005, 08:58 PM
#29
Drifting
Originally Posted by Stokeless_TSX
im interested but i wanna see someone else do it first...i took one for the team YOUR turn
08-01-2005, 03:14 PM
#31
Drives With Hands
What would the real benefit from this be at this point? Unless I am mistaken, all it allows to be changed are the same parameters as the Hondata reflash. Why not just get that then? Is being able to actively adjust them that important, given that the aftermarket engine mods consist of the most simple of bolt-ons? Other than another "cool" electronic gadget to have (which I am a huge fan of btw) I don't see what other purpose one of these could serve for us.
08-02-2005, 07:38 AM
#32
Instructor
Join Date: Jul 2005
Age: 48
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by rmpage
What would the real benefit from this be at this point? Unless I am mistaken, all it allows to be changed are the same parameters as the Hondata reflash. Why not just get that then? Is being able to actively adjust them that important, given that the aftermarket engine mods consist of the most simple of bolt-ons? Other than another "cool" electronic gadget to have (which I am a huge fan of btw) I don't see what other purpose one of these could serve for us.
Also the Hondata Reflash isn't available for the 2005 TSX yet so this is an altenative. That said, I am skeptical about the ECU leanring and fighting the VAFC and negating the tuning that could be done. I have nothing to back this up, just a concern of mine.
The VAFC is very easy to tune and will only apply to WOT as where Hondata did say they have done some partial throttle tuning with their reflash. Ideally we'd have the K-pro.
My suggestion would be to do the Reflash and see how the AFR looks and retune with a VAFC is it needs it. It would be nice if Greddy would make an eManage for the TSX as it is better than the VAFC IMO.
08-03-2005, 09:55 AM
#34
Intermediate
Join Date: Aug 2005
Age: 48
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Does the VAFC2 control the iVTEC's cam timing (degrees) setup? If not, it's basically useless. From what I know, that's where the power is at...... not just in fuel/VTEC switchover areas.
08-03-2005, 10:25 AM
#35
Instructor
Join Date: Jul 2005
Age: 48
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 9900rpm
Does the VAFC2 control the iVTEC's cam timing (degrees) setup? If not, it's basically useless. From what I know, that's where the power is at...... not just in fuel/VTEC switchover areas.
Power can be made by tuning ignition timing but first Fuel should be tuned. You can make significant power tuning the fuel on a car. Typically Honda runs the cars way too rich for safe peak power. Blanket changes to some Hondas can be made through the distributor which if knock is listened for (ECU watches too) then you might be able to make a global timing change to benefit the car. I have found some cars make power by retarding timing when using Hondata so that could be the case on a TSX (I don't even know if the TSX has a distributor yet)
That said if you read Hondata's website the TSX doesn't have enough cam timing adjustment in the timing mechanism as is. Sounds like you would need to modify that first.
I'd say if a VAFC worked on a TSX you could put a decent tune into it but remember it will be WOT only as there is no partial throttle adjustment available in a VAFC.
08-03-2005, 10:47 AM
#36
Originally Posted by Asahi
Power can be made by tuning ignition timing but first Fuel should be tuned. You can make significant power tuning the fuel on a car. Typically Honda runs the cars way too rich for safe peak power. Blanket changes to some Hondas can be made through the distributor which if knock is listened for (ECU watches too) then you might be able to make a global timing change to benefit the car. I have found some cars make power by retarding timing when using Hondata so that could be the case on a TSX (I don't even know if the TSX has a distributor yet)
That said if you read Hondata's website the TSX doesn't have enough cam timing adjustment in the timing mechanism as is. Sounds like you would need to modify that first.
I'd say if a VAFC worked on a TSX you could put a decent tune into it but remember it will be WOT only as there is no partial throttle adjustment available in a VAFC.
That said if you read Hondata's website the TSX doesn't have enough cam timing adjustment in the timing mechanism as is. Sounds like you would need to modify that first.
I'd say if a VAFC worked on a TSX you could put a decent tune into it but remember it will be WOT only as there is no partial throttle adjustment available in a VAFC.
08-03-2005, 10:49 AM
#37
Intermediate
Join Date: Aug 2005
Age: 48
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Asahi
Power can be made by tuning ignition timing but first Fuel should be tuned. You can make significant power tuning the fuel on a car. Typically Honda runs the cars way too rich for safe peak power. Blanket changes to some Hondas can be made through the distributor which if knock is listened for (ECU watches too) then you might be able to make a global timing change to benefit the car. I have found some cars make power by retarding timing when using Hondata so that could be the case on a TSX (I don't even know if the TSX has a distributor yet)
That said if you read Hondata's website the TSX doesn't have enough cam timing adjustment in the timing mechanism as is. Sounds like you would need to modify that first.
I'd say if a VAFC worked on a TSX you could put a decent tune into it but remember it will be WOT only as there is no partial throttle adjustment available in a VAFC.
That said if you read Hondata's website the TSX doesn't have enough cam timing adjustment in the timing mechanism as is. Sounds like you would need to modify that first.
I'd say if a VAFC worked on a TSX you could put a decent tune into it but remember it will be WOT only as there is no partial throttle adjustment available in a VAFC.
From what I know, VAFC isn't just for WOT. It does allow for 2 maps. One for part and one for WOT (hence the 2 throttle percentage inputs for each graph).
You said some cars make more power by retarding timing when running Hondata. Are these NA or turbo cars? I really can't see benefits by retarding ignition timing if the car was NA, unless Hondata's tune was way over advanced.
08-03-2005, 11:25 AM
#38
Instructor
Join Date: Jul 2005
Age: 48
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by 9900rpm
I know that power can be, and is usually made through fuel and ignition timing changes (on NA, somewhat lean, with ignition advance), but on iVTEC motors (from what I've read on Hondata's page), TSX's seem to be happiest if the cam gear timing mechanism had 45 degrees of adjustment instead of the stock 20 degrees. Modifying the cam gears to allow the 45 degree sweep isn't the problem. Making something (ECU) control that is.
From what I know, VAFC isn't just for WOT. It does allow for 2 maps. One for part and one for WOT (hence the 2 throttle percentage inputs for each graph).
You said some cars make more power by retarding timing when running Hondata. Are these NA or turbo cars? I really can't see benefits by retarding ignition timing if the car was NA, unless Hondata's tune was way over advanced.
From what I know, VAFC isn't just for WOT. It does allow for 2 maps. One for part and one for WOT (hence the 2 throttle percentage inputs for each graph).
You said some cars make more power by retarding timing when running Hondata. Are these NA or turbo cars? I really can't see benefits by retarding ignition timing if the car was NA, unless Hondata's tune was way over advanced.
The VAFC still relies on MAP voltage instead of directly controlling the injectors so it's tuning of things like idle and partial throtle are extremely limited. It is certainly the bst option we have provided it works.
If someone can confirm it would work on a 2005 ECU with a harness I'd be willing to spend the money. I'm curious how the person perviously mentioned managed to burn up an ECU plugging in a VAFC?
08-03-2005, 11:28 AM
#39
Instructor
Join Date: Jul 2005
Age: 48
Posts: 123
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As an FYI my background is in Hondata and Power FC which both have been on all Pre iVTEC cars so I coudl be way off base. BUT . . .Tuning fuel has always netted more power than tuning ignition timing. ANd without working with it more it sounds like tuningt he ignition timing isn't what it needs but insteade more timing from the mechansim.
I read the '06 specs posted on VTEC.net. Does anyone thing the mechanism has been modified based on the way it was worded?
I read the '06 specs posted on VTEC.net. Does anyone thing the mechanism has been modified based on the way it was worded?
08-03-2005, 09:39 PM
#40
Intermediate
Join Date: Aug 2005
Age: 48
Posts: 32
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is a patch harness available for the 2005's? My TSX is an '05 as well.
I would like to try some kind of computer upgrade, since it's not looking likely that Hondata will come out with a K reflash for the '05's anytime soon. I believe a lot of power can be found with ECU tuning, since stock Honda tunes are always very conservative.
I would like to try some kind of computer upgrade, since it's not looking likely that Hondata will come out with a K reflash for the '05's anytime soon. I believe a lot of power can be found with ECU tuning, since stock Honda tunes are always very conservative.