The TSX is my first car I've owned with VSA and DBW features. After owning the car for almost 2 months now, I'd have to admit that one area of dissatisfaction involves relinquishing some control of the car to its so-called 'saftey features.' At first, I didn't know how to describe this feeling.

Recently, I came across the BMW e-brouchure on the M3 competition package and the following statement jumped out:

"For those looking to get even more track-oriented performance out of the legendary M3, we present the M3
Competition Package. Huge 19" M Cross Spoke forged lightweight alloy wheels, shod with 225/40R-19 front and
255/35R-19 rear performance tires1 increase the M3’s contact with the road and lend it an even more aggressive
presence. The M3’s already powerful brakes have been improved to meet the demands of repetitive hard braking
experienced on the track. The cross-drilled, compound front rotors have been increased to 13.6" (up from 12.8").2
Handling has also been intensified, thanks to a more direct steering ratio of 14.5:1. The M3 Competition Package
also includes a refined, less-intrusive version of DSC, which can be activated via the M Track Mode button on the
sport steering wheel.3 Inside you’ll find unique Aluminum Trim and an Alcantara steering wheel.4 Such a distinctive
package demands an equally remarkable signature color. Interlagos Blue metallic paint will be available exclusively
to the M3 with Competition Package. Inside and out, on the track and on the street, the M3 Competition Package
sharpens the performance edge."

Less intrusive. Bingo. Are sport car enthusiasts fed up with all this control? Even fighter pilots I've spoke with hate the original "fly-by-wire" controls that are supposed to stop the jet from stalling. On my TSX, I sure don't feel comfortable with VSA and probaly drive 50% with it off. If I could change the settings, I would default the setting where its OFF upon every startup. I like to be in full control. How will a computer tell if my skid is a controlled, intentional skid versus an out-of-control skid?

How do you feel about VSA / DBW?

 

Actually, VSA has saved myself and a bunch of other members on this board numerous times. It does its job. Also, you have to understand that Acura would not want their VSA system to be less intrusive. Acura doesn't want the TSX too sporty. You are comparing the VSA system of the TSX to the one on a COMPETITION PACKAGE of a bmw M3 .. WAY different car and WAY different price tag which targets a WAY different audience..

 

I'm all for letting the user decide how much control they want, but after my performance driving classes I can honestly say that VSA is an excellent feature. It is really hard to drive a faster and more consistant line around a track without VSA than with it. You have to be seriously hardcore and 99.9999% of the population isn't.

If I had the option to enable/disable/modify systems in the computer I would turn off traction control, but I would leave stability control on all the time. DBW was probably unnecessary and I can live without it.

 

If you dun like it, turn it off yourself.

 

Love them both

 

You just need more practice, Dan.

For street purpose, I wouldn't mind the VSA at all. I keep it on all the time. I only turn it off when I go for a spirited drive. For auto-x and track, definitely a . I'd like to control the car myself, not with a computer.

I can do without the DBW anytime though. What I discovered lately is that with AT, it really amplifies the delay that the DBW has. I've been driving my parents' 05 Ody and that's what I feel most of the time. Is this the same for TSX with AT?

 

The computer cannot tell if it's a deliberate skid "for fun" or not, it can only tell that you've gone beyond the limit of the tire. Based on the side-slip rate it knows when you're out-of-control.

Really, the VSA shouldn't be that intrusive unless you're being overly jerky with the steering wheel. Trying to trail-brake into a hairpin where you want some yaw is one of few situations where VSA off has significant merit.

Driving on the freeway or to the grocery store (99% of customer driving) doesn't justify switching it off. Especially since it'll save your rear when you try to swerve around that deer that just jumped out in front of you.

 

I'll take VSA and DBW. I've done my fair share of performance driving, but these are great systems to have available on a car for drivers who do not possess enough skill under severe driving conditions. I do like the fact that the VSA system is fully defeatable when I want it to be.

 

I agree with Dan. I'd also like to add that when you've really sized up how VSA works and what it reacts to and not, it is possible to drive with it to really help enhance and smooth out your drive. In winter or dirt and mud conditions, you can skid in controlled ways that it would be much harder to achieve without.

Unless you're doing drag racing or autox, VSA can really be an asset.

Of course, if you try to fight it or drive against it's principles, it will be a pain. If you use it while you drive with it, it can really help.

And I wouldn't call VSA system intrusive in any case as you have the option of disconnecting it, while you can't completely do it 100% on many German cars, including BMW.

 

And the G35 I think.

 

I'd have to disagree. One my largest gripes with the VSA / DBW system is my inability to have the throttle plate wide open when hard acceleration is needed after a certain upshift. For example, numerous times I would make a right turn and need to accelerate to avoid traffic passing through the intersection. With VSA on, I could floor the gas pedal and the RPMs would lag. With VSA off, I could quickly accelerate and avoid having the cars hit their brakes.

 

Actually, you can totally turn it off on E46 when you press the DSC button for over 5 sec.

 

I find the VSA not intrusive, but the traction control is a little too aggressive for my liking. If I could, I would turn off traction control, but leave VSA on.

Throttle-by-wire is required for new cars anyway for emissions reasons so that the ECU can rev it up slightly when you lift off the throttle so that the remaining fuel is burnt instead of released into the atmosphere.

 

Your problem is not caused by the VSA, it's caused by the traction control.

 

vsa is more of a accident avoidance feature. the M3 competition package are for people who mainy take their cars out on the weekends or to the track, NOT for a daily driver. the enthusiasts liek doing everything by themselves and correcting their misakes themselves. plus, heres a situation, a driver is goin into a turn with vsa on, he starts to oversteer and corrects, but the computer also corrects his oversteer and causes the car more harm then benefit; the car becomes unstable and spins out...

 

Perfect example of a driver not knowing what his car is about and working against it.

BTW, VSA is lenient enough that you can correct in most situations, except maybe understeer, and it won't make the car unstable or make you lose it.

 

I HATE VSA!! it actually caused me to have an accident!
i was turning at a high rate of speed trying to catch up to a motorcycle rider that had just kicked a dent in the side of my car (long story)
anyway while attempting to make a high speed turn and heavy on the brakes VSA kicked in to " correct my intended path" and in doing so comprimised my braking ability and as a result made the car try to make a wider turn or more or less go straight. as a result i went over a curb and throgh someones front yard. 11K in damage!! all fixed now though.
some would say it was my driving, but i know for a fact i wasnt going fast enough to not make the turn becaused based on the angle i hit the curb it would look like i never even tried to make the turn. i am not sure exactly how the VSA works but if i were to guess i would say the brakes were mostly working on the right side tires as i was making a left hand turn. this would cause the car to stay straight or try to pull to the right. in my situation i would have needed all 4 tires doing the braking not just 2 of them.

 

Chasing a motorcycle through a residential neighborhood is a really dumb idea and you're lucky you didn't kill anyone.

VSA detects yaw change so it will only kick in under two conditions:
1) the rear of your car is accelerating faster than the front i.e. oversteer
2) the steering angle doesn't match the car's path i.e. understeer

It won't kick in if you're not sliding in some capacity. You were definitely going too fast for the corner.

 

well let me ask you dan, if you were sitting at a light and owned your car only a month when some asshole comes up along side of your car and kicks a dent in your new ride wouldnt you want to get their plate number and report it?
you cant say what was stupid and what wasnt. im sure 90% of the people on this site would give chase if someone damaged their car and took off.

 

A dent isn't worth killing someone because you ran over them on their front lawn IMO. Sounds like you've got quite a temper. How the hell did you think you were going to catch a motorcycle anyhow?

 

Whenever you're HARD on the brakes and steer at the same time, 95% of the time the car will go straight. I don't think your accident was caused by the VSA. It was caused by driver's error. Come on...you were angry at the time, that caused you to be aggressive. Oftentime when someone becomes very aggressive when driving, they would make mistakes.

 

The VSA does not disable your brakes on your left wheels. VSA can only activate the brakes, not disable. If only your right wheels were braking, then you were going so fast and then braked and turned (while still being too fast), so the car's weight shifted to the outside (i.e. right side) and hence lifted up your left side and left you with no braking capacity. You took the turn too fast. Anyway, the damage is done and good thing is that you were not injured. Next time when someone kicks your car, memorize his number plate!

 

Nice choice of words considering the situation

 

I'm sure your statement is accurate. Keep in mind I've only had my car for 2 months and my last car was a cable throttled Integra.

By reading the feedback of some of you 'senior' TSX owners, I'm sure I'll get the hang of it with time. For now, I'll just keep turning it off for sprited driving.

 

Or experiment with it in a large dirt or snowed in parking lot.

 

Exactly. That is the most basic of driving techniques. If you ask your front tires to do 100% braking, they will do 0% steering. If you ask them to do 100% steering, they will do 0% braking.

You just overdrove yourself and ended up over a curb.

At any rate, like Dan said, that was stupid. How do you think you'll catch up with a motorbike anyway? And even if you did, what were you going to do? Give it to him?

 

LOL. It think I'll be hard pressed to find a snowed-in parking lot in Southern California.

 

:jealous:

Then drive down in Baja.. not!

 

True, but I can find you a parking lot that can turn into a lake (well, about a third of the parking lot size) with the deepest section being at least 3 ft in just about 3 hours of heavy rain. I saw it happen in person. Amazing!!!

 

This might be a stupid question, but I have owned my TSX since March 2005 and have not noticed the VSA yet, how do you know when it is operating? Sometimes I drive very agressively on the mountain passes around here. I have a RSB and a-spec suspension on my car. I took a mountain pass this past weekend getting to 95 mph and probably averaged 70 mph because of the switchbacks which I could only max out at 35-40 mph. I have driven Loveland Pass thousands of times so I am dialed in on what turns are where so this was not dangerous, but I still didn't notice the VSA. Any faster and the car would most likely understeer off a clif. Do you think the suspension and RSB stabilize the car to a point where even this kind of driving will not induce a skid hence leaving the VSA off?

I guess you can say that my answer is no the VSA is not intrusive. Mainly because I have never noticed it on.

 

That's actually a very good question. I don't know the answer to the second part, but as far as knowing when it's activated...I think it lights up on the dash doesn't it?

 

And also the car will hesitate to move. I only experienced VSA on slippery surface.

 

I don't like the DBW either, but mainly because it's hindering the process of developing the Hondata K-pro.

 

Yeah, you get the amber '!'-in-a-diamond light. It also feels somewhat similar to ABS engaging.

It's pretty easy to activate it in the TSX... I just accelerate hard out of a 90-degree corner that I go into too fast. There's one on my commute where the right turn goes to a long acceleration lane, so I know I don't need to worry about merging right out of the corner. This is where I tested it out. I went into the turn at about 35 in 2nd, and floored it at the apex. Turnd the VSA right on.

 

See that is what I thought, but I still don't get it to activate. It doesn't seem easy to activate it on my TSX. I don't know. When I am driving like that in the mountains I am not looking much at my display. I glance to see mph but not long enough to see anything else. At the speeds I drive mountain passes here it is not advised to take your eyes off the road at all. There are steep drop offs with no guard rails. Although I have never seen the light come on or felt the ABS engaging, I know that it is not disabled. I must assume it has something to do with the stability of the vehicle with the mods I did.

I guess I will wait for snow and play with the car in a parking lot. Six to eight weeks and we could see snow here anyhow.

 

When I know I'm going to do some "spirited" driving in my AT, I switch to SS. That pretty much gets rid of the RPM lag when I punch the gas.

 

When you press the button to cancel VSA, does it turn off traction control too?

 

 

I generally like the VSA, although the traction control is a little over-bearing especially when your tires get older. Not crazy about the DBW though. I just don't like the extra "jerks" you get on the MT when you let off the gas. In 1st gear in traffic it can give you whiplash sometimes - no likey.

 

That is not VSA. That is the traction control. The systems are linked. Traction control cuts power, while VSA brakes the wheels. So they are 2 different systems, but use the same button and ! symbol on the dash.

You can sometimes feel if VSA is on. It feels like the ABS is activating, but only on one side and your foot is not touching the brakes. VSA does not cut your throttle. Traction control does that.