larchmont

A lot of our pals on here are gonna be getting TL's soon. Presumably, and hopefully, they'll be staying with us on here, and telling us all about their rides and everything else. How's that gonna be? Well, I dunno.

We already hear our share from people with other cars besides the TSX, including "better" cars, although usually we can disagree with that pretty easily, plus, we have the added panache of the TSX being a hot new car, which in my book has always put us ahead of the pack anyway. But with the TL, it'll be different. Even though many of us may truly be preferring the TSX over the TL, it'll be hard to really feel the TSX is "better," plus, there'll be so many TL people on here -- we may almost be outnumbered! And, of course, in this comparison we TSX'ers won't have the "hot new" factor all to ourselves.

It'll be interesting to see how it sorts out. I'm not worried, just wondering. A lot depends on exactly how the TL will feel, which I say is still very much an unknown. I mean, even now, we can't even agree on HOW BIG the car is!!! (TOV doesn't agree with Acura, Acura doesn't even agree with itself, and the actual hands-on measurements don't agree with anything.) So how can we consider the more complex things to be known yet? Like, how much cushier will the TL ride be than the TSX? How will the handling compare? Most of the current buzz is that the TL's handling will be great but that it won't match the TSX's in some ways. I dunno, maybe we really WILL be able to feel legitimately that the TSX is a "better" car. Definitely it'll be the case that the TSX is a different kind of car, and many of us might well just prefer that kind of car. We'll start to get a feel for all this when the test drives start -- finally we'll really know how the TL is, and, we'll be getting some idea of how we TSX'ers are gonna be feeling about the whole thing.

And for mine own part: If the TL does knock my socks off (doubtful, when you love your current car so much), I'll just have to get one. And as glad as I'd be to have a "better" car, I'd be sad, because lemme tell ya, there's nothing like a TSX.

I guess that means I'm not getting a TL.

But I might have to get a shrink.

Crazytree

WWJD?

larchmont

Civic.

ecsw

I was thinking about convincing my dad to trade his '03 TL-S to new TL so I can have fun on both new TL and my TSX.

As for me? Nah, I will stick with my TSX for the price. After all, TSX is already an upgrade for me from my Mazda6 and yet I still have house payment and 2 year old son to feed. :'(

sheik28

I'd go with the shrink if I were you!!

jcg878

You don't have one yet?

Saintor_RENAMED

The only reason I see for not getting the TL is the price. 7000$CAD more is hard to overlook.

fdl

Larchmont, it seems you may have a new winner in your best car under 80k thread

I dont think the TL will handle as well as the TSX, and I also prefer the TSX interior. That being said, the TL will of course have the edge in power, and ammenities, and I belive has more interior room. And although the handling will be a few ticks below the TSX its not something most drivers would notice or even care about. So I guess most people would have to agree the TL is more car, and it should be at that price.

For me though, I would never even consider a TL. Not for another 10 years or so. Even thought the redesign is much more sporty and youthfull....it still seems a little too "old" for me.

adam fiooz

Its not like the tl is way more expansive then the tsx.

larchmont

That's what we've been hearing, and that's what we were assuming. But, after finally seeing the TL, I'm not so sure.

I've been talking about how important "size" is, especially for handling and sportiness. Not too many people agreed.

But I think EVERYBODY would say the TL's greater size is the ONLY significant reason that its handling and sportiness might be below the TSX. From a mechanics and technology standpoint, those things should be BETTER on the TL (right?) -- it's just the greater size that would hold it back; the only question is, how much.

And, what I think NOBODY AT ALL knew until a couple of days ago, and which virtually nobody but me seems to be even starting to absorb, is that the TL is very little larger than the TSX, at least from a dimensions standpoint. To put it bluntly, in terms of outside measurements -- I mean ACTUAL measurements, not the stats, which, I'm telling you, have something wrong with them -- the TL is a small car.

That's what has me so excited about the TL. And also worried, on behalf of our beloved TSX.


P.S. I know that the weight of the TL is greater. But I can't say we know for sure how much.

ecsw

m

No, but from my Mazda6 to TSX is already $7000 upgrade for me. :p

larchmont

Howdya like that -- floozy is the first one who gets what I'm saying:

It's not like the TL is way more "EXPANSIVE" than the TSX.

That's what I meant too.


But it's a lot less "expansive" than the old TL. Despite being more expensive.

darth62

THe reasons you guys are describing is why I think the TSX will remain a niche car. It will probably sell mostly to the same kind of people who used to buy a Prelude. You want something sporty ,classy, and reliable.

I have to admit that I have sometimes wondered over the last few weeks about my choice to go for the TSX instead of waiting for the TL. But, if I get real unhappy, I'll just upgrade! In the meantime, I'm loving my TSX and feel like I got a great deal on a wonderful automobile.

P.S. Is it time we all just started ignoring Floozy. I mean, let's not even respond to his moronic trollism.

fdl

I hear what you are saying, but the bottom line is it will be bigger, and it will be heavier, and these things are generally disadvantages in handling. How much of a diff? we cant say. The question is whether the extra size and weight will be compensated for by having stiffer more aggressive suspension, and maybe stickier tires. Certainly its possible the performance HPT(?) optioned TL could out handle the TSX, but I'd be surprised if it does in stock form.

I"ll bring up one more point. The TL uses the Accord chassis right? Of course the TL and Accord are very different, but if you watch Tuans video from TOV on the TSX driving impressions...he is extremely surprised at how much better the TSX chassis is to the Accord, even though they are so similar. It performed well above his expectations through the twisties.

At this point all we can do is guess based on the info we have. And based on the info we have right now I would have to say the odds are against the TL outhandling the TSX (in stock form with like rubber). But if it turned out to be the other way around I couldnt say I would be surprised.

neuronbob

The TL is a different car from the TSX. Comparing the two is like comparing Apples to Dells because of this. The TL is a "Touring Luxury" car, which now has a little more sport in it. I'm frankly not looking for it to handle as well as a TSX. I agree with darth62's comment above and would add that if you want a smaller, sporty, affordable car the TSX is your car. If you want to spend a few more bux and have some more luxury and a powerful V6, the TL is your car.

By the way, the TSX side of the site is pretty interesting, as is the car, which I've test driven. I LOVE it but am a TL guy...

provench

Car envy .... bad. I am going for 100K with the TSX (this is a lot considering I only do about 12K miles per year max).

gilboman

i dont really see why anybody would have an inferiority complex over a higher level car..there will always be a car that is better than yours sport wise and/or luxury wise... its just whether people are willing to pay for it or not... if all i could afford was a TSX, i wouldnt have an inferiority complex from a TL or even the germans... i bought what i could afford and what i wanted that was available with my budget.

1killercls

WWJJD?? (What would Joann Jett Do?)

legendguy

I suspect that the TSX will have an edge in handling over the TL.
Given similar quality and engineering, the smaller car usually has sportier handling and wins in the "fun to drive" category. That said, I am going to wait for the TL. My reason has a lot to do (but the opposite) with what fdl said in an earlier post:

"For me though, I would never even consider a TL. Not for another 10 years or so. Even thought the redesign is much more sporty and youthfull....it still seems a little too "old" for me."

I decided recently that it was time for this 44 year-old to get a little sporty number, and the TSX seemed to be the right fit from what I read. I test drove the TSX and loved its nimble handling and responsiveness. Better than the Audi A4 V6 I tested. But, the throaty growl on acceleration and the bright metal trim in the dash and step areas started me to thinking "what am I doing here?". I'm not saying this is a "boy-racer" car, far from it, but I guess I am a little too conservative (read "old") for the TSX.

I'm thinking the TL will probable have more subdued sound and trim. I only hope that they don't tack on too much to the price. Anyway, I can wait another month and will be able to test drive the TL and make the decision versus the terrific TSX at that time. I believe that those who have a good fit with the TSX styling and performance tuning are lucky people indeed.

1killercls

I NEED a new car every few years...I am a nut for new technology in autos.

YBA

nah... The TL is too big for my taste and will cost more to purchase and to insure... The TSX fits the bill (for me at least)

Brad

Larch:

Your original posting reminds me of an obsession that a family member (in-law) of mine has. He is super concientious (sp?) of "staying ahead of the Joneses". He always has to upgrade, upgrade, upgrade. I lost track of how many motorised caravans (recreational vehicles), bikes, boats, stereos, and TVs he has "needlessly" bought and replaced over the years. I'm polite and say "Wow! Cool!" but deep down, I'm . And then I laugh because he doesn't even pay cash for such needlessness! His credit card and his multiple mortgages are his best friends.

On the other hand, I don't give a rat's ass what others' mere material possessions are. I know what I like and what's good for me. In other words, what's really important?

Relax and be happy. Don't let it become an obsession. And if a shrink is necessary, be careful picking one. From what I've read, many are worthless and do nothing but try to make you feel good about yourself rather than having you face reality and smell the coffee. Reality can sometimes can be very disappointing to some people, so much so that the few honest shrinks get sued for not being a better pacifier--or so I've heard and read.

larchmont

Great, interesting posts.

I had to take a long drive today, and a lot of the time I was thinking, How can I even think of getting a different car?


BTW: I'm back to thinking that there's very little chance that the TL's handling and/or sportiness will be superior to that of the TSX, because (and I hate to admit this, because it's so dumb) I probably made a mistake in checking the sizes of the two cars. While indeed the cars are much closer in size than anybody thought before the last couple of days, they're probably not as close as I was thinking when I did those last few posts. (I explain my error on another thread.) The size relationship in terms of dimensions is probably more complicated than meets the eye, since the cars aren't shaped the same. At this moment, probably the best guidepost for how the size difference affects the cars' sportiness/handling is the difference in weight, since that's just a single number for each car -- and it seems like the TL will be about 8% heavier. That's pretty significant.

jcg878

Certainly more to purchase, but I'm willing to bet that it would be less to insure... assuming that the TL doesn't have a major demographic shift.

idx

Exactly!! You can't abandon your baby!

Personally, no matter what the new TL has, I'm not trading up. I'm very satisfied with the TSX.

-r

larchmont

I'd bet there will be at least SOME demographic shift, and possibly a major one. It seems like the new TL may be a significantly different basic kind of car than the old one, and if so, expect its market to change. What we'd be looking for is, more of the TSX/BMW kind of market ( ), and less of what we might call the "Buick/Cadillac" type of market.

jcg878

I think it will shift somewhat as well, but at least for a while I don't think it will be a completely new demographic. I think that's what I meant.

On that topic... is it worth it for them to try to hit a different niche?? It seems like the current TL (up to '03) is doing well in the 'lux for the family, not too sporty for the wife' area. It seems like Acura is not content with the middle ground they occupy (more lux/status than Honda/Toyota/Mazda etc, less than BMW/MB and co.) but I would think that it is a lucrative area to be in.

SteVTEC

There is no way a heavy 35xx lb "still FWD" TL is going to out-handle a 32xx lb TSX.

Compared to a 540i, the 330i is smaller, more nimble, and handles better. The 540i is quicker, though. But it lacks the agility of the 3-series so it's more of a cruiser. M3 and M5, same thing.

If you are after raw power, then the new TL will be quicker, but the TSX is going to handle better. I think the TSX with the 6MT is a pretty ideal combination, actually. You get the agility of a smaller car, yet the manual still gives you plenty of quickness. It probably won't be too far behind the new TL with the 5AT while still handling a lot better. The TL 6MT and HLSD should really haul, but how fast do you need to go? And do you really need a car that big and expensive?