crimson002

Read all about it here, some interesting points made: http://clublexus.com/forums/showthre...hreadid=107193

AcuraFan

Oh, who cares. They're Lexus biased, we're Acura biased. No big deal.

The part I like was when one guy said no competition means that Lexus will only get better. Obviously, he doesn't understand the economics of a competetive market. lol

Buff-Daddy

I am just wondering how you beat justinjsw to this post?

dnl2ba

But it shouldn't be shocking that the people who are on the Lexus forum (most of whom drive Lexus cars) are the ones who are really impressed with the name. If you like Lexus, you buy Lexus.

I would at least agree that "Acura" isn't associated with luxury the same way as Lexus and BMW, say, possibly because of the lack of a solid flagship since the Legend and because the Integra / RSX are so accessible and common. When I think "Acura," I think Honda reliability and (now, with my TSX and having read TL reviews) great value for lots of features. Without turbo / supercharging, and an (almost?) entirely FWD lineup, Honda/Acura isn't really thought of as an exciting brand. The new navigation systems and the TL's Bluetooth are Honda's first forays into technology that excites Joe Average.

...But if I had to pick a Japanese brand I find less exciting, it'd have to be Toyota/Lexus. (Had to get that slam in.) Floaty suspension and isolation from the road is good for my mom, but not for me. Of course, I confess I've never driven, say, a Celica or IS300.

The TSX and TL are making real waves for Acura. Maybe they're just being nice, but I've gotten nothing but compliments over my TSX (largely for the whiz-bang features).

ostrich

Lexus is obviously a good brand. The trouble is, there is not a single car in their line-up that I wanted to buy:

1. LS - for older folks, too expensive
2. GS - aging, about to be replaced
3. IS - too small, also aging, not excited about the styling
4. ES - my neighbor bought one and it took me about 6 months to realize that it was not a Camry... anyway, too floaty, Buick-like
5. RX - if I were too buy an SUV, I would have gone for the Infiniti FX

I didn't even bother to walk into a Lexus showroom once...

They also talked a lot about "prestige" over there on that board. Really, if I were into real prestige (which I am not) I would have got myself a BMW.

The TSX fits me like a glove :-)

jcg878

Ditto - what else would we expect?

I have no problem with Lexus, and I'm impressed with what they've accomplished, which is, admittedly, more than Acura has. When I hear Lexus ppl complaining that Acuras are just Hondas, I just have to shake my head. What do they think the ES is again, or the RX???

The anti-4-cylinder argument is just annoying to me. Though I can understand that point of view, I don't see other manufacturers offering 4-cyl luxury cars sinking because of it. OTOH, Acura would benefit from a V8 and RWD/AWD. When I look up at the lineup from the TSX, I don't see anything to strive for (perhaps the TL). THAT is a problem. So is the EL :sqnteek:

Is this 4-cyl lowering the brand, or introducing new buyers?

Bass Mechanic

you know i dont care what they say, funny but in comparason i didnt see 3 of toyota / lexus vehicles mentioned in the C and D 10 best comparo.
also i think there are 2 reasons why you dont see these type of threads on Acura boards.
1. we already know we have a better car people who bought the Lex are all trying to justify to themselves why they paid more and got less car than we did.
about the only thing i can see them argue that is valid is the IS has more HP than the TSX, and i would hope it does because it is a 6 cyl. but i have read enough threads to see that there is no real advantage of having the I-6.
for 1 thing i have already heard my share of TSX owners saying they have raced and beat the IS. so for that extra HP i can only assume you get more power but also more weight, less MPG and a RWD car which for about 1/2 of north america doesnt like due to snow in the winter.
2. i dont like any of the styling of the interior of the IS in particular. i dont even want to compare any of the other cars in the lex lineup because from a price standpoint we are talking apples and oranges.
if you want a comparo of the upper end Lex cars lets talk about the TL and RL comparason. IMO i dont see any advantage of getting an IS300 over the TSX other than the name of Lexus. to me a name means crap. i used to think Mercedes was a good car till i read that blurb online about the most problematic cars. Mercedes being one of the worst.

keep in mind guys. the main reason you dont see acura owners talking trash like this is because it is human nature to downplay things you didnt buy. it makes people feel right about the things they do and choices they made.
we all know why we choose the TSX over the IS for all the same reasons C and D pointed out, there is simply no other car in this class that has everything the TSX has for the money.
i can remember back in 97 when i first saw the new 5th gen prelude i hated the lights, the interior illumination, the back seat, and interior layout of the car. funny thing is when i was able to afford the car none of these things in my 98 prelude type SH were an issue for me anymore.
what im trying to say is its human nature to find fault with things we didnt buy because we arent really sure we made the right choice.
the lexus guys are either stuck up snobs or just insecure about their purchase. they worry that there might have been somthing better they should have considered before getting the IS.
for me i almost got the lex IS300, my mom has one and i really liked driving it for a week when i visited her.
but honestly i could do without that ugly cyclopien insturment panel and the fact i have to stop to program the nav system.
i will say i like the exterior of the LEX IS300 but there are enough similarities of the TSX in the lines that i am just as happy with the TSX.
sure i would have loved to impress the neighbors by parking a lex in my garage, but i bought the car because i like it not because i want everyone else to.
the general snobbery attitude i read on the LEX board makes me wonder if these people bought their cars to impress the jones or to impress themselves. it's almost like they are still making noises hoping to get everyone to notice them. by posting what they are posting you would get the impression that they just like to pat each other on the back for their choice in cars. there is still a slight concern there might have been another car they should have looked at before writing that larger check for the IS.

tony4311

agreed.


However this comment is funny. Probably the dumbest things to complain about. They're a littlfe full of themselfs with lexus over acura. Lexus and Acura are on the same level.

iamhomin

well, lexuses are much more expensive than most acuras, generally speaking. so it's like saying, man the pentium III celeron processor does have its use, but in no way can it beat a pentium IV processor.

plus, besides the is300, lexus models are mostly aimed for very conservative, middle-aged adults, opposed to acura's lineup which appeals to a lot of young adults and a lot of teenagers, IMO. these two brands shouldn't really be compared.

ultimately, the lexuses are more "prestigious", and have features the acura has yet to provide, but nonetheless......

1SICKLEX

:noob:

jcg878

I'm watching the game now, and I realize that the 'Acura' voice isn't as rich-sounding as the 'Lexus' voice. Clearly this is the problem

I'm joking, but I think a lack of good advertising is a big part of Acura's 'issues'.

omgsoup

Bass Mechanic
well, other than the fact that an i-6 is a perfectly balanced engine , or a v 6, or something like that. the 6 and 12 cylinder engines are the best balanced (or some word that is similar to balance) that's why big rigs have i-6's -less vibration.

gavinn58

i too almost bought a 5spd IS...would have walked out of the dealer with that car, however it was $6000 more than the Tsx. I wouldn't even have spent another $500 for the Lexus, as I am completely happy with my Acura.

kiteboy

I-6's (or multiples thereof) have a cylinder in each phase of the combustion cycle during the crankshaft rotation which allows the forces on the crank to be balanced througout the entire rotation.

Too bad the IS300 has a V6, not I-6.

wishiwere

Sorry, but the IS300 has an I6.

jcg878

Sorry buddy but an I-6 it has:

http://www.lexus.com/models/is/5speed_performance.html

Bass Mechanic

does anyone have any comments on the rest of the post i spent 30 minutes typing up?

dnl2ba

Yeah, sure.

I stopped reading after that. This is the same kind of drivel that some of their members posted. If they shelled out $35K+ for their cars, those cars were probably right for them.

1SICKLEX

Sorry u feel that way. Personally, I have met dozens of Acura owners through TL/CL/Legend/NSX Prime dot com. And 1 guy here. You will notice the thread is not bashing Acura like "Acura sucks" etc etc. You will see not just Lexus owners but previous/current Acura owners in that thread.

There are quite a few previous Acura Legend people that moved up to a GS or LS and can't be happier. There was no Acura option to move up (the RL is not really a consideration).
I think Acura competes real well in the sub 40k market (where is finds it's FWD niche) but this is the entry-level luxury market. I don't even know what the sub 30k market is called? And that is what our thread is about.

Mokos23

i like lexus, but the one thing they do that acura is better at is that acura sells their cars with only 1 or no other options to buy, like for the Tsx our only 1 option was a navi. Everything else is standard like the heated seats, homelink, leather, and auto dim mirror which are options i know on lexus cars, which in turn makes Lexus cars more expensive when well-equipped.

larchmont

Come on! Bass Mechanic's stuff was totally fair game, in terms of this being an Acura board, and he's preaching to the choir, and he knows it. It's subjective, and that's his subjective opinion, and the opinion is shared by a lot of people here.

A lot of times on here, I've said stuff like, "I was sure the ES300 was going to be the car I would buy, but then I tried it and I couldn't believe how bad it was." When I say that, obviously I don't literally mean it's a bad car, just that it wasn't MY KIND of car. And indeed it wasn't. By my criteria, that $40,000 Lexus totally sucked. But that doesn't mean it isn't a great car.

And I'm sure that's how Bass Mechanic meant it too.

Bass Mechanic

i posted what i posted because the whole fact they were dogging on acuras as a whole when in my opinion toyota and honda are practically neck and neck in terms of quality and realibility. reports show this to be very true. for me i like honda / acura because they seem to have the edge on technology and they also seem to be consistant in producing a better bang for the buck.
it doesnt seem to matter if your talking fuel effeciency and power out of a small engine and some of the most environmentally friendly cars on the planet.

dnl2ba

I think they were talking more about the luxury aspect of the cars than anything else, part of which relies on an inflated price. Personally, I don't like my prices inflated very much, but I'm not everyone.

gilboman

honda and toyota are really close in terms of quality and reliability, but that does not hold true in acura vs lexus and about technology...Lexus have A LOT more technology than Acura cars... what do acura's have? lexus have adaptive headlights (acura's can't even level themselves out), 6spd auto's, RWD sedans, V8's, adaptive suspensions, air suspension, rain sensing wipers, auto sunshades...heck just look at the LS, etc... but that is to be expected since Lexus costs more. Acura is in a lower level than lexus which is reflected in the differences in lineup of cars between the two makes. acura's most luxurous sedan (TL, RL is a non factor) is a FWD guissed up accord and plays in the entry level market and in the same class as the ENTRY (eg. lowest) level lexus, so the "best" sedan in the Acura lineup is in the same class as the "lowest" sedan in teh Lexus lineup which would obviously show the two brands are quite a distance apart with Acura the bottom and Lexus at the top.

phile

Hate to break it to you, but Lexus is the top selling luxury brand because of sub 40K vehicles in its lineup, with the best sellers being the ES330 and RX330. Its advantage over Acura is that it offers products above 40K, not because it sells products above 40K. Yes, the GS sedans and GX470 SUVs bring in cash, but compared with the sales number for the competition (E-Class outsells the GS sedans by a ratio of 5:1), it's obvious that beyond 40K, Lexus loses to Cadillac, Mercedes and BMW.

omgsoup

the one thing i don't like about lexus is that the es300 is a f*cking rebadged camry. like, you should just by a camry with leather, and then put lexus emblems on your car. no one could tell the difference. but personaly, i like the old school es 300's right around 2001 i think it would be.

kiteboy

So would you rather have the most expensive Lexus (LS) or Acura (NSX)?

crimson002

I would take the NSX--hands down!

dnl2ba

Dude, they are completely different cars. An NSX would probably be kinda lame for daily driving, no? Does it even have a stereo? :P I wouldn't be surprised if they threw out a lot of basic car amenities to reduce weight.

larchmont

I think when you're driving an NSX, you don't need any music.

Heck, I don't need any music when I drive a TSX.

CarsDislikeMe

My dad tried to buy another acura after the last one but with such a rotten time at the dealership and the car not holding any value he went and bought a lexus. However, he misses certain things about acura that lexus doesn't have..

I do have to say after having to wait at both places for service lexus is better..

But I think within a month or two we will be acura owners again. (or I will be anyways - but it will be in the family)

gilboman

the most expensive lexus is the SC i think and if its an only car..the SC by a long shot, ... and besides just b/c i'm not as concerned as Acura owners about price/value question, doesnt mean i am stupid enough to buy a 90k car with peformance easily surpassed by cars half its price. There is a reason they only sell like 15 NSX's a year, it has something to do with its probably the biggest rippoff in the market.

AlexTheMan

The main problem for many of us here, IMO, is that Lexus had nothing to compete with the TSX. Before buying or test driving my TSX 6 months ago, I went and test drove the ES300. Man, I used to like that car but I was really disappointed with the test drive. I used to have a fully loaded Ford Taurus fifteen years ago that handled way better than the ES300. That was something I didn't expect.

I couldn't get past the looks of the IS300 as a riced up Honda Civic so it was out of the picture.

DaiLo77

Lexus is just an overpriced Toyota. They do not have anything compared to a sports car (NSX) or Luxury (Mercedes SL55) or (BMW M3). But they classify themselves better or equal to Mercedes and BMW

speedzer

i find it ironic when they say a luxury brand do not include 4 cylc. engines. well, Mercedes has two and i believe BMW is introducing the 1 series which incorporates a 4 cylc.

i read the whole thread and they seem hostile towards posters that voice their opinions against Lexus. YOU'RE BANNED IF YOU TALK BAD ABOUT LEXUS!! just shows you the characteristics of lexus owners

ostrich

I had my heart set on getting a V6 for my new car... that was, until I drove the TSX! Lots of reviewers said that they swore that it was a V6 until they read the specs anyway! It is just so sad that some people can't keep an open mind.

LeMasseHammer

Agreed that Lexus, to this point, is generally over on the luxury side of the luxury-sport spectrum, which is why I'm a Honda convert and loving it. Isolation from the road and engine does not appeal to me. But I have tremendous respect for Lexus quality (interiors, style, reliability) and their lineup -- especially the LS, which I would take over a MB S-class if I were in that market. I anticipate that I'll develop a crush on the new generation IS at some point down the road. Toyota knows they've drifted too far into the subdued family car arena and no doubt they'll develop more products for us performance-oriented folk in the future. It'll be hard to lure me away from my 7100rpm redline though.

gogozy

mm, correct, clock to clock wise, Pentium3-celeron beat Pentium IV... like dollar to dollar TSX beat IS..

gocubsgo55

o yea, lexus is "prestigous". especially since toyota literally takes altezzas, aristos, harriers, and all of those cars and literally badges them lexus and changes the name 2 is300, gs, and rx. cmon! at the very least dont make that same car which in japan is nothing special seem special in america.
im not saying at all that acura is better or even level with infiniti and lexus, but at least acura and infiniti dont split a large amount of 1 car in half and badge them differently.
also, the guy that said lexus is at level with mb and bmw, bullshit! the new gs is supposed 2 compete with 5 series and e-classes?! cmon! and the LS, how is that at all the equivalent of a 7 series or S-class.
the thing is many car buyers are very ignorant. they here "lexus", and luxoury pops up. when lexus came out people thought it was a type of mb, which lead to people buying them. now people think, lexus, luxioury, prestigue.
honestly, it really is toyota that needs to shape up. the new gs is the worst thing to come out of their line-up in a long time, or maybe its because we expected something better. it looks like the original gs300 from the back. seems as if toyota has run out of ideas.
so yea, get to the point, lexus is equal to infiniti now imho, and acura has a great chance of leveling with the new tls and tsx's. the mdx is very bland, but popular. the rl is one of the worst current cars on this planet, thats gonna be changed. so infiniti has done its work, and has caught up to lexus, lexus hasnt impressed anyone yet, and acura has impressed with the tsx and tl. the new rl, nsx, and the potential rdx will signify the rise or staying put of acura. as of now, it remains an upscale japanese company that offers plenty of bang for the buck.

duugk

"Prestige:" How much are you willing to pay extra for that? What is it exactly? Do I want to be a person or part of a crowd of people that cares about that, should it be important to me? Obviously it is important to a lot of folks out there, and for them I say, go ahead, get a Lexus, BMW, MB, whatever floats your boat.

For me, I'll stick with Acura. As a family, we have over 500,000 miles logged in Honda's and have never been stranded or suffered any major mechanical failure. Reliability, value, service, fun to drive, not overpriced. I also like not having to negociate every little accessory.

Like someone said at the beginning, when you pay so much extra for "prestige" you find yourself having to justify it somehow. Bashing Acura is one way to make yourself feel better it seems. That's fine, I'm already happy with my penis size and don't need some form of augmentation. I hope Acura remains an understated quality type of image. Quiet competence.