helloha

This is the Accord Euro-R in Japan..
Accord is not a bad name, But due to the sterotype, they have to rename to TSX, no offense here.


















[IMG]http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-color/accordeuro-r/milanredrear/milanredrear.jpg
[/IMG]

Spec... 220hp.
I think there will be a TSX Type-S soon..( I am holding off my TSX purchase until this one comes up....)

http://www.honda.co.jp/auto-lineup/a...ata/index.html

For people can't read Japanese..
燃料タ?ク容量：65L ?最?出力：162kW［220PS］/8,000rpm? ?最大ト?ク：206N・m［21.0kg・m］/6,000rpm

HP is rated 220/8000rpm 2.0L. (not 2. 4L in current TSX due to new K20A model DOHC i-VTEC engine)

accsuperstar

??? is it? ???

Maxboost

i don't wanna break ur heart but a lot of sources (both insiders and very reliable, too) are saying that there won't be any TSX that comes with 2.0L engine. First this engine won't make it through because of the emission control. The ONLY posibility is a TSX with a Factory Performance package. Maybe Euro-R rims, new body kits, and lowered suspension.

helloha

I thought the New I-vtec engine is more environmental friendly?
Here is the spec.. How do I find out current TSX's emission?
I don't think Honda will not pass the emission on this engine, since S2000 use 2.0L with 250hp output, and honda been a environmental friendly company..
Like Other formuns said.. Acura won't change a dime in 04 MDX.. but they reface it, Add Side curtain, Projector lens......

---------------------------
CO2｡]g/km｡^
199.9




-CO
0.67

-HC
0.04

-NOx
0.04

=----------------
K20A Engine..info
Engine

Honda's B18C engine - which powered the previous Type R - was famous for explosive power and revability without sacrificing too much drivability (unlike B16C). However, after more than 10 years of evolution it finally came to an end and is replaced by a new 2.0-litre four, engine code K20C.

K20C is not developed exclusively for Integra Type R. It is a derivative of the mass production K20A which started serving Stream MPV recently. No matter K20A or K20C, they differ from the old B18 by three main improvements: 1) increasing displacement from 1797 to 1998c.c.; 2) using roller rockers to reduce friction at valvetrain; 3) in addition to the existing 2-stage, cam-changing VTEC, they gain a cam-phasing variable valve timing (VTC) mechanism at intake camshaft like many manufacturers do. Honda calls this combination of VTEC and VTC as i-VTEC, where i stands for intelligent (think of iMac or iPaq, or VVT-i ?). See it this way, the conventional VTC varies the intake valve timing continuously and smoothly throughout the whole rev range, so it flattens torque curve, which used to be the biggest weakness of VTEC. The VTEC, on the other hand, switch from "slow-timing, low-lift" cam lobes to "fast-timing, high-lift" cam lobes at around 6,000 rpm, optimizing ultimate power.

This sounds fabulous, but by no means in Type R territory because every Stream and regular Integra has them. What make the Type R producing some 60 more horsepower are: 1) with VTEC at both intake and exhaust camshaft instead of just intake side; 2) 11.5:1 compression ratio instead of 9.8:1; 3) straight and large intake port and manifold (but devoid of two-stage variable manifold as found in the lesser models); 4) two-stage variable back-pressure muffler; 5) lighter weight moving components such as high-strength con-rods, forged crankshaft and lightweight flywheel; 6) piston skirt added with lower friction coating.

As a result, maximum power becomes 220hp (JIS) at 8,000rpm, up from the previous 200hp at the same rev. Although not as astonishing as the 250hp (also JIS) S2000, the i-VTEC engine is cheaper (shares a lot of components with the mass production version) while being more user friendly, in other words, more torquey at low to mid rev. Peak torque is 152 lbft at 7,000 rpm, equaling the S2000 but occurs 500 rpm earlier. Although this cannot match the old Type R's 6,200 rpm, at any time the new engine deliver stronger torque, especially below 3000rpm, and is more linear.

Honda did not say a word about some traditional Type R goodies such as forged connecting rods, forged and polished pistons etc, letting us believing that the new engine is designed for higher production no. and lower cost. This coincide with the fact that the new engine is no more revvy than the old B18C although it has bigger bore and shorter stroke - the new combustion chamber is pure square, with both bore and stroke at 86mm compare with the old engine's 75mm bore and 90mm stroke. In terms of power per litre, the i-VTEC is also no more than the old VTEC.

Anyway, as long as the engine is more powerful, more user-friendly yet being 10kg lighter, why should we bother about racing treatment or not ?

fdl

I don't know anything about the emission control issues, but i'd guess that IF we were to have a type-S TSX it would be the R from over seas. Only because from a finacial standpoint..its the option that makes most sense for Honda.

Lung Fu Mo Shi

Type-S is dead. I doubt we'll see another one from Acura for a long time.

Type-R and Type-A is another story. But even then, I imagine you're looking at another 2 years down the road before you see any variants of the '04 models.

sauceman

Although on paper the K20C would be a nice engine and undoubtedly is in the Euro-R, don't forget that the TSX is a very heavy car compared to what the Euro-R is. I suspect that if there were to be a hypothetical TSX type S with the K20C engine with the same level of equipment found in our TSX, the 2.4 version would have the upper hand over the K20C, because the latter would lack the torque needed to pull the 3200lbs of the TSX. It would be more annoying than anything.

And I don't see how many more revs could be added to the K24A2 without experiencing reliability problems. The stroke of that engine becomes way too high for 7500+ RPMs.

Maxboost

well it's not about just the emissions.
there're still a lot of issues that Honda has to go through. IF they plan to bring the R variants over here then it'll have to be a stripped out version TSX. For the engine it will be very to sell, too. Cuz for AMERICANs K20R is just another four pot cylider. Also the engine on the Euro-R has much more power than K24 it lacks in torque and low end power period. i used to have a civic with race engine (B16B+B20B bottom with all the bits that could make this engine go faster) it has no street drivibility at all. i had to drive with 5k to get to car going. This is where folks at Honda concerns. TSX is an entry level luxury sport sedan and they want a car to be "entry" level. since TSX has to be luxry also they need some engine like K24 NOT the K20 cuz more than 50% of TSX owners doesn't care about K20 they even wanted V6!!! kinda like sterotypes. so Honda has to have a torque number that car match competitors. to have sth for the consumers to looks at, at least.
OH and about the emission thing. TRUST me US has a VERY strict emission control.
have you ever notice why we don't get RB26DEtt, and why first gen S2K needed to be detuned. So does the 4G63. Oh and how come we don't get 2JZGTE on GS lexomobile??? YEAH all that because emission control.
OH and there's not such thing as B16c

Brad

Honda could strip a version of the TSX of "luxury" stuff to lighten the load and then put the K20 engine in it.

That's similar to what Subaru has done to the WRX. That's why people call the Subaru a fast econo-box.

STC

iTrader: (1)

No sterotype because we already have an Accord here.
cant have 2 4 door Accords.

We'll NEVER see a Accord Euro R, TSX Type R, Type S or any type of sportier TSX here ever.

Remember the TSX is "luxury" to US standards. Unlike the Integra and Civic the Accord here is considered a "family" car.

The TSX is also marketed to late 20's early 30's young suot and tie professionals. Why would they need a Type R version of the TSX? The Type R is a lot louder, stiffer ride, stiffer seats, etc (personally I would love to have a Euro R)

And besides havent u noticed, Acura wants to be the luxury Honda brand.

BuddySol

Well, if Australia can have 2 4 door Accords, why can't we?

Brad

Oh, but in other world-wide markets both the versions of the Accord are marketed as Accords in parallel: the so-called American style version and the JDM/European market version.

In other Asia-Pacific regions, namely Oz and NZ for example, both the larger and smaller Accords are called Accords. (It's interesting that the US-style Accord is positioned against the Toyota Avalon and not the Camry.)

On the other hand, I'm aware that in Japan that the American-style Accord is called the Inspire (or some such), presumably to avoid confusion.

I don't know if or when the US-style Accord will be available in Europe or how they would market the larger US-style Accord.

sauceman

They could, but I'd be very surprised they would, because a fast econo-box is probably not in Acura's agenda for nicknaming their cars, lol.

STC

iTrader: (1)

I went to http://www.honda.co.nz/h.nsf/n_index.html its Honda New Zealand.
There is only 1 Accord. The "Accord Euro". I dont know what "Oz" is abbreviated for. Then I went to http://world.honda.com/automobile/.
Thats Honda's world page to look at a few different countries and it seems Japan only has both Accords.

BuddySol

Did anyone not pay attention to my post earlier. Australia is the only country, that I know of, that sells both versions of the Accord under the same Accord name. Most likey New Zealand will offer both since I believe they share the same market. Obviously, when the JDM/EDM Accord came out it pailed in comparison to the previous gen Accord sold in Australia...which was the last gen USDM Accord, which came with a V6. To go from being offered a roomy V6 back to a compact 4 banger, I'm not surprised Australia decided to bring over the USDM Accord also.

I find it interesting that Honda went out of their way to differentiate the Accord for different markets. When in the end, they will be selling both versions (re-badged or not) in all viable markets that can support them.

Brad

Sorry. Oz is short for Australia.

The NZ media have been mentioning the expected arrival of the larger (American style) Accord.

Honda: Accord's Six Appeal

gunz

ok i dont think we'll see typeR/euroR versions of the TSX here either... but i definitely think a TSX typeS is possible for the future... if acura can put out a typeS TL (a "luxury sedan") why not the TSX as well?

STC

iTrader: (1)

It'll be badge the Accord V6.

Terry

Left field question. Where can one get brake, clutch, acelerator, and foot rest like those shown above?

MrChad

The emission control issue that everyone is questioning. It is the same reason we don't have an Integra Type-R anymore. (RSX type R)

The RSX type-R and Accord Euro-R (TSX Japan) use a true street header. The header has no pre-cat. Is this bad, no. But, the lack of pre-cat means the engines fail to meet ULEV standards. It has become Honda's philosophy to be US Green per say.

So, we can't take advantage of the 12:1 compression because of west coast crappy 91 Octane gas. And we can't use the true header sans pre-cat. So, there is no way a US spec Euro-R TSX 2.0 liter type-R would ever make 220ps (~hp). Once you can't make 220hp might as well just keep our 2.4 liter K24 and the torque and lower readline and go bling-bling with the leather heated and sunroof.

If Honda does bring a Type-R to the states it will be the CTR b/c it could use the regular RSX type-S engine and meet emissions and still be a truer type-R candidate b/c our Civic Si is so lowly buy comparision and it wouldn't clash with Acura's new luxury image.

STC

iTrader: (1)

In 04 there will not be a Type S TL.

Brad

The New Zealand Herald also ran an article on the V6 Accord. Both "Stuff" and the Herald ran articles on the Euro Accord too. In fact, it was there that I first read about the Euro Accord--before I ever heard of the very similar TSX.

NZ Herald articles of interest:

Winning numbers

In accord with the market

And this, being so closely related to our TSX:

New Accord wins Japan car-of-year award

Brad

I would like those metal pedals too. A couple months ago, someone was trying to arrange a group buy but since I didn't yet have my TSX, I elected not to participate.

I couldn't find the message. Hmmm. Maybe it's on another TSX board...

Who carries these metal pedals?