So i was talking to my dad's mechanic today. He's been our mechanic for 10-15 years now, and the guy has been working on cars since he's a teenager. he's very knowledgeable, works on all kinds of cars - foreign and domestic - and also built and maintains his own drag racer, which he let me know he hit 7.59 last weekend in the quarter mile.

anyways, he was giving me advice on taking care of the new car. of course, he is overly careful and said that he'd never let a car go 3,000 miles without an oil change, and he does his 2000-2500 miles. excessive? probably, but just food for thought. he also said castrol is the best synthetic, but mobil1 is almost as good.

he also said not to go back to the dealer for the maintenence, not that that's a brain buster, but when i told him i paid $150 for the "service b1" the oil change, tire rotation, check all the crap; he just laughed.

now here's the kicker. like i said, he's driven all kinds of cars, broken in many, and pointed out that his brother tows an 18 foot boat with his new pickup which "recommends" premium.

he said that whatever you break your car in on is the octane you should use, and that the "recommened" octane is crap. he said he's never noticed a lack of power if the car was broken in on a lower octane.

that being said, i broke the tsx in on premium since it's recommended, but i was just wondering if any of the "experts" on here agree with him.

i know everytime this has been discussed, people all say the same thing: ecu adjusts for knocking and there's a loss of power, etc etc. but this is coming from a mechanic who knows cars better than most on this board do.

i must say i'm a bit skeptical, but if he's not noticing power loss towing an 18 foot boat, than how would we notice it in our tsx?

 

If you want, try a couple of tanks of the cheap stuff then. Let us know how/if your milage changes and if you think you notice any performance changes.

 

that wouldn't support his argument, as he said, it all depends on what you break the car in on. so i already broke it in on 91 octane, so i stay that way, based on his theories. i trust this guy very much, i know both sides of the argument, and not saying i buy either side yet, but it's hard not to believe a guy who works on cars 10 hours per day, has kept my family's cars running for well over 200,000 miles each, and built his own rail car for drag racing.

 

I am sure your mechanic knows his stuff, but his statement is a bit oxymoron, don't you think? I mean, if the recommended octante is crap, wouldn't everyone use the cheapest gasoline to break in cars? The reason you have been using 91 gas it's because it is recommended by Acura, and Acura probably recommended it for a reason.

Anyways, I just don't know what does he mean by saying "recommended octane is crap". If there no recommendation suggested by the manufacture at all, everyone will be using 87, isn't it?

 

Using the recommended octane is very important. I tried 87 octane with my maxima and the engine knocks as it is written in my user manual. But when I change to 91 or 93 then the engine idles smoothly. So it is always better to stick to what is recommended.

 

When I bought my car it was filled from the dealer with a full tank (like said on sticker) I asked the dealer what's it filled with and he said 87. At about 100 miles it started knocking intill I filled up with 93 octane. Then it went away. I think some cars can use lower octane like he said but those usualy say for better or best performance. Like on my old maxima I used 87 but around 65000 miles knocked put 93 in twice went away. But the TSX has a very high comprestion ratio. So it should need the high octane if I am correct

 

I love how these self-purported experts, regardless of their experience, assume that they know more about specific cars than the company that spent millions of dollars on R&D using individuals with degrees in engineering.

As much as your mechanic might have worked on cars, and as much as he may have built a dragster, it does not make him a real expert on you particular car. Not saying you should ignore him, but take his words with a grain of salt.

Also, in reference to his anecdote about the truck, things are different when you're running a low tech, low compression engine made in the good ol' US of A than when you're talking about a high tech, high compression motor made by engineers in Japan. The tolerances are much more specific with high compression, high rev motors.

 

honstly, I think oil is oil! its all name brand crap. The castrol and mobil are the same stuff. I do recomand using the synthic though.

 

again, as he said, if you broke it in with 87 it should be fine. i'm not saying that i agree with him necessarily, but i just wanted to see people's responses.

 

if he's towing a boat without noticing power loss, i just don't see how we're losing much. the only way to test it would be to break two cars in the same way, except one with 87 or 89, and the other with 91 or 93. and then see if there was a difference in performance. i don't think this has ever been done, or that we'd see it done. maybe a job for top gear?

 

i agree, but this is coming from a guy who is insanely meticulous about cars. he thinks changing oil at 3,000 miles is worst case scenario. he changes every 2k. and if a US pickup says "recommened premium octane" and a tsx says "recommended premium octance" shouldn't they both need it for the same reasons?

 

Somehow, I doubt that the truck he used to tow a boat have a VTEC engine in it .

I think when he made that statement, he meant that if the car runs fine at the lower grade of gasoline initially or during the break in period, there will be no problem to stay put using that grade. However, the oxymoron is, how does a regular consumer knows what is the lowest grade of gasoline to use during the break in period in a particular car if he or she ignores the recommendation from the manufacture entirely?

 

ummmmmm i thought american pickup trucks ran on regular fuel???

does he dyno this truck? or even measure mpg?? or better yet frequency to the gas station in a given 2 day span??

/rant
sorry ameican cars/trucks, mainly trucks in my pov are crap. but im sure aside of that, u can find some sort of useful points in there

 

That statement i agree with you

That statement depends on the motor. After taking apart a Chevy LT5 motor and a Toyota 3VSE motor, I really like how Chevy did some serious ingenuity into that motor and in my opinion is much more "tech" to it than the toyota. Honda motors for what I've worked on, have Chevy ingenuity of that Corvette motor in them, especially in some of the head work. The variable valve timing was I think actually GM's invention, Honda perfected it so it would work on engines without major design compromise. Each manufactor has it's own way of varing the timing in their own head design, but they all achieve the same result.

____
I have other ideas about your mechanic, but some of his thinking is right and others are wrong. Towing depends on the engine and the load. I had an old 4Runner and towing something that is heavy dictated premium to prevent that marble hitting the engine sound --which is pinging (knocking is a major engine malfunction such as the clearances of the piston to the cylinder wall is too loose). My current Tundra, tows pretty good with regular, but it does ping still and even during regular driving if I step on the gas rapidly.

Still some of the old timers in the auto industry will not budge from their old teaching and learnings, so all you can do is say okay I respect your opinion and leave it at that.

 

The hemi does run on regular, but the manual suggests midgrade also for peak performance and towing. I like American trucks for their convience and their power, except Ford. Sorry, but I just don't know how some of the engineers think when designing some of their cars and trucks. The issue...reliablity and that's what lead me to a foreign truck. Apparently, even the new Rams have issues... and I really like those trucks.

 

There was no mentioning of how the car was driven during the engine break-in. Although it's possible to drive the car with lower than the recommended octane, providing the engine is never under load condition that can cause damage. But such light driving wouldn't break-in the engine properly. If you want to test if lower octane makes any difference, just put the car on a dyno and monitor the timing advance with a scan tool and compare the results.

Btw, did he use 87 octane in his drag racer?

 

of course not, that's a little different though.

and he said if you break a car in on lower octane it will be fine, he wasnt adjusting for a lighter breakin. i semi believe him, but still would use 91.

 

but don't foget the ecu can't adjust until after there's some knocking which is no good.

 

some dumbass at the pump put regular in my friend's 2006 MDX, didn't hear any knocking at all, and it was during the break in. almost a full tank of it.

 

If you can hear knocking, it's already too late. There can be knocking going on but not audible to human hearing. If a knock monitor is connected to the engine block, you would be surprised how offen the engine knocks. If the mechanic keeps his drag racer in top performance and uses the correct fuel, why would he suggest using lesser grade fuel for another engine? You would think someone who cares about performance would apply that to everything he does...

 

Nope. Different technologies, different design aspects, different build tolerances, etc. can all affect what type of fuel a motor needs.

And on a high-revving motor like the S2k, where the likelihood of regular high rpm beatings is very high, changing the oil more often probably can't hurt. On the TSX, which is more likely to be used as a daily driven commuter, there doesn't seem to be a good reason to change the oil more often than recommended unless you really beat on the car.

 

He may be right, but I have a hard time believing that octane level is what dictates the right fuel for the car. If that were the case, wouldn't all car recommend regular?

Plus, his "tests" were derived from a very small sample which might only suit his automobiles, just like the "Acetone in fuel" test. Take it with a grain of salt..

 

Ever since gas hit $3.50 in socal I had to downgrade from 91 to 89. I haven't notice any knocking yet (Knock on wood) I've fill them with 89 for 4 times already. And the last time I accidently filled 87.... no knocking yet.....

 

^^You had to downgrade? Money's that tight, eh? Like JTso said above, there can be knocking inaudible to human hearing. Good luck with the cheaper gas.

 

The oil change interval is very dependent on the individual driving profile, hence the invention of oil life monitoring systems, through a complex computer algorithm. In order for these systems to work properly, it is imperative that the owner checks the oil level frequently to keep the level at full. For Joe Blow who doesn't even know what an oil dipstick looks like, it does make sense for him to change his oil every 3000 miles, so in the event that his TSX burns oil, which is not uncommon as Honda engines aren't very "tight" on oil, then he will not be operating his engine for an extended period of time on low oil. IMO, that is the primary argument for the 3K oil change interval that has its merit, and will continue to for the near future.

 

In CA 97 octane costs about .20 more per gal. than 87 octane. At 17 gal fill-up that's $3.40. People on this site regularly drop multiples of $100.00's of dollars on mods to improve handling, performance and looks. Rolling the dice on possibly hurting your engine as JTso said v. saving a couple of bucks per tank, to me does not seem to be a wise choice. Couple this with the inferred mileage gain per gal. and the internal engine temp. to mention a few beni's of higher octane and I will place my bet on the guys who built it.

I say this not meaning to get anyone's nose out of shape for there is always a bit of truth to be told by anyone with valued life experience. The trick is to try not to be an absolutist and take it as fact. I was told all too many years ago by a seasoned mechanic much like the guy described above when talking about how to care for my new, 4-cyl car he said, "Use it but don't abuse it and try not to have anyone else drive it more than occasionally." His advice has served me well.

 

I think your mechanic is very knowledgeable and has many years of experience with cars but maybe not the newer cars. Technology changes all the time and I rather trust the engineers that built my car than some old fashioned mechanic that may not know as much about newer cars.

 

^^^

Also, a lot of guys on this site pay hundreds of bucks a year in speeding tickets anyway.