Hey guys more of a lurker than a poster as I usually have nothing productive to add, but I thought this was a little weird and wondered if anyone could tell me how this is logical. I'm 27, single male, no kids, own a condo, never made a claim, had one speeding ticket 10 years ago. I pay $889 a year to insure my 99 Civic Si. I'm in the market for an 04 TL or TSX 6 speed no nav. I called my insurance agent today for quotes on both cars. My inclination was that both would be substantially more than I pay now, and that the TL's would be so high as to price me out of the car. Well, they quoted me $1025 for the TSX, which I was surprised that it was that low. What really blew my mind was the $987 quote I got for the TL. These are all for a full year.

How do they come up with these rates? How is the TL less than the TSX? And how is the TL only $98 a year more than my 5 year old car worth about 1/3 of the TL's value that makes less torque than a hamster on one of those wheel treadmills? I can't even begin to comprehend this. I guess the thing I come up with is they place a car in a certain mentality group, such as, the typical Civic Si driver is a 19 year old racer who makes stupid decisions, while the typical TL owner is a 35-40 year old married father who is safe and responsible; therefore, my rates are marginally higher now but would be marginally lower with the TL?

The agent told me that less than 5% of claims involve totaled cars, so most are fender-bender type accidents, and that a new bumper on a 2004 TL costs the same as a new bumper for a 5 year old Civic. I guess I can see this, but still, just based on the value of the car and power differential, I can't understand why the TL is still not alot higher than both my Civic and the TSX.

I doublechecked that he was quoting a 2004 TL and not an 03, he said yes. One thing he said was that maybe when the insurance companies built the rate tables for the 04 TL, they had not yet come out with the car's specs, so they rated it based on the 03 specs, which would be a non Type-S. This means they may go up next year but he's got no way of knowing until they do it.

I guess I was kind of hoping the TL's would be prohibitively high, so I wouldn't have to decide between these cars, as I'm not sure I can. I'm still a bit skeptical so I'm going to get some actual VINs to quote because I think that will be more accurate, but I was wondering, can anyone shed some light on this beyond the explanation that he gave me?

Sorry for the long post. Thanks for any insight.

 

$1025/year???????

Holy shit!!!

So cheap????

Really, I am paying more than double that.

 

seriously bro, i am thinking of moving to OH to pay 1G in insurance. consider yourself lucky that you don't live in NY or NJ
and don't complain. just accept it.

 

Oh, I'm definitely not complaining, I know it's low, I just don't understand how it is so low and was wondering if there were any insurance gurus in here who could rationalize it.

 

I'm certainly no expert when it comes to car insurance but the actuaries might have looked at the claims history on the Integra when setting the rates for the TSX and the Integra was the #1 stolen car in the USA at one time. The actuaries probably looked at the "old" TL and the Accord V6 when they set the rates for the new TL and I'd guess that the TL attracts a more conservative buyer than the Integra. You should also break the policy down into it's different components to compare. Again, it's my best guess that the excess premium on the TSX is mostly for theft insurance. I'd also wonder if they were aware of the TL's 270hp, I'd guess there should be a surcharge for that. Do shop around, of course. Not all insurance companies see things exactly the same way.

This isn't entirely irrational, it may seem like sorcery but they've been estimating risks for some time. The earliest known insurance contract dates to Genoa in 1347 and Lloyd's Coffee House which became Lloyd's of London dates to 1688. As for accuracy of insurance actuaries, I looked up the surcharge charged for life insurance on space shuttle astronauts after the Columbia space shuttle accident. I was amazed to discover that the surcharge was just about what it should have been considering the number of launches, the actuaries had estimated the risk almost perfectly.

To look at the claims histories of different cars, you can visit the industry sponsored Insurance Institute for Highway Safety website. The chart on the IIHS website places the '00-'03 TL exactly at average, 100%, for collision losses, the '99 Civic coupe for 130% and 178% of average for collision and theft claims respectively, and the Integra at 662% of average for theft claims.

http://www.carsafety.org/vehicle_ratings/ictl/ictl.htm

 

i was quoted something like $30/yr more for the TSX than the TL in Seattle (~$1300/yr w/a perfect driving record)

 

Did somebody say insurance?!?!?!

NJ insurance

 

When I got my insurance for the TSX in September my insurance company in Massachusetts said that since the car is so new and they have no history about these model cars that the rate is based mostly on the MSRP price of the car and my driving history.

 

Don't forget to factor in the fact that a brand new car is a lot less likely to breakdown than a 5 year old car. I know they are both Hondas, but the new car would still be under manufacturer's warranty (for major parts) while the Civic isn't. So the likelyhood of the insurance company having to pay up for repairs on the Civic is greater than for the TSX/TL.

As far as the reason why TSX cost more to insure than TL. . .

I'm currently paying more to insure a minivan than the TSX. Figure that one out.

 

Because you bring the kids to soccer practice in a minivan!

I just got re-quoted today for having moved out from my parents' house some months ago, meaning I lose the multi-car bonus. However, adding renter's insurance takes me back to $670.40 / 6 mos for the car, which is close to where it was before ($640 / 6 mos).

<-- 22 YO male in SF Bay Area

 

You have breakdown insurance? I'm not familiar with that. I only carry collision and comprehensive. Am I missing something?

 

Yeah I don't know what this is either. I don't have it nor do I think it is a part of a typical insurance quote.

 

I pay $732/year for insurance on my TSX. This is actually cheaper than my '01 Civic EX (which was $750/year). I figured it was because the of all the safety features.

 

being that i am an Insurance agent ill answer this the best i can.
there are 2 rating factors for insurance on a car, they are liability "L" and property "P" bands

the TSX is made in japan while i belive the new TL is still made in Marysville OH because of this i suspect part of it has to do with availability and cost of the parts to repair.
but these 2 aspects L and P have a lot to do with how much it costs to insure a car.
ill give an example. take a dodge ram truck, they are expensive to insure because of the size of the car. realise that if you tbone another car in this type of car your going to cause some pretty hefty damage to the occupant of the other car. its also likely you will mess up a standard car with this car.
now on the other hand take a saturn for example. its made mostly of plastic and is basically a cheap POS because of this fact it is cheap to repair and less likely to cause a lot of damage to another car.

in the case of the TL i suspect that based on some of these factors and also based on the way that the 2 cars get driven has somthing to do with the rates. i would guess people drive the TSX a little more sporty than people who typically buy a TL and the fact that the parts are easier to get since they are assembled in the US.

your rates are low compared to other parts of the US. in colorado we are i think #10 on the states of high insurance costs. also since you didnt tell us what limits of coverage you have its hard to tell if your getting a good rate or a bad rate.
i sell everyone in colorado 250K/500? liability and 100K property damage. i also additional add 1 million liability coverage on top of this package.

 

Hey Bass I may really hate insurance , but I'm glad your here to explain it to us. Too bad you're not in :nj:

 

hey i just turned 25, single, No points, No claims.
and got my new insurance quote, 3800 for a year.
FUCK NJ INSURANCE!!!!!
Im gonna give em a call today and tell em i only drive the car on weekends and i take public trans to work.
AKay

 

Akay that was the first number I heard too - did you ever call Commerce?

Oh, and I told them that public trans story too (cause I do).

 

ouch that is high

 

I don't even know what my limits are off the top of my head. I had him quote me for the same limits as my current policy. I don't know if it's a good or bad rate (it's definitely a good rate if your frame of reference is $3800 a year), I was just surprised it was barely more than what I pay now.

Thanks for the explanation, I hadn't thought about availability of parts for TL relative to TSX.

 

yo JCG i called em and they never called me back lol.
I hate nj lol
AKay

 

you know i was just thinking about the insurance rates. for me, i don't know why the insurance rate is higher in my tsx than my dad's G35 sedan. the G35 is much faster than the Tsx. Can you gives me reasons why insurance companies are giving most of us high rates for this car? Its still lower than when I was driving the 99 accord when I got that car new, but then again i was still only 20-21 at the time. I always though the insurance rates goes down when ur going to turn 25 or are 25 yrs. old.

 

i pay 279 a month for my TSX it hurts bad...im in seattle btw

 

NJ sucks

me 2 - you gotta pester that b****. She's tough to deal with but gave us the best rates. Of course 'best' means only $2900/yr for my 8 mile commute with my clean record and no claims

NJ Insurance

 

I just got my renewal notice today.

With my %30 discount, I'm looking at $2400 CDN for the year.

My monthly would be $209 if I so choose that option.

I guess I'm OK with it

Paying insurance sucks at all times

 

depending on how your insurance company rates cars it can affect the rate of the cars.
at american national insurance the car is rated based on who drives it.
so for example if you swapped cars the G35 would be more than the TSX.

and as i explained earlier it has more to do with the L and P bands on that particular car.

 

Because your dad is much older than you. The age and gender of the driver has a much larger impact on rates than the type of car. There is a drop at age 25, but it keeps getting lower as as age increases. Other demographics also affect the rate, such as martial status and where you live.

Go run some quotes on kanetix.ca and you can change the type of car and a bunch of other variables to see the effect on rates.

 

I pay about CAD$2800 per year for two vehicles. I think the TSX is about $1600 and that includes a rate bump because my wife drives it for work one day a week (520km). The policy has $2mil liability and a $500 deductible. The TSX insurance is about $200 per year more than for our old '89 Accord.

 

Bass:

I completely agree with your assessment of the matter.

Having recently gotten into a fairly major accident in my TSX, I can vouch for the fact that they are astronomically expensive to repair. there are ZERO non-OEM parts available at this time, and there are not likely to be very many available in the future based on the TSX's yearly sales rates. Couple that with the fact that the closest plant that manufactures TSX body panels is in Japan, and you get a significant increase in insurance rates.

 

I pay $1300 a year for full coverage on the TSX. My Accord is only $575, CR-V is $890 a year both are full coverage.

I have a clean driving record.

 

I'm getting quoted at $151/month - and I'm not even 25 yet.

What company are you going with for insurance?

EDIT: I'm in Redmond - just so you know it's actually a fair comparison.

 

comparing rates like this is pointless. you guys all live in different cities and with different ages, credit scores, driving records. everyones rates will be different.

 

Yeah, that really blows... I also live in NJ & I work for an auto ins. company... NJ auto ins. is a rip.

It doesn't help that you live in Paterson, though... a major city which has one of the worst auto theft rates in the country. My best friend is a doctor at St. Joseph's in Paterson... he recently had his 4-month-old Subaru WRX STi stolen from the hospital parking lot, and then set on fire.

They didn't even strip it!

Keeping your car in a garage might help, but given where you keep you car overnight, your rates are unlikely to go down much until you're over 27 or get married. I was 25 when I got my Boxster, and I only pay $1200 a year on that (insured as a non-commuting vehicle). Bear in mind that my town has one of the lowest crime rates in the state.

Good luck with it, though...

 

i'm 25, i'm paying around 189 a month right now for my tsx. i was paying around 180, but i got a ticket a few months back and they jacked my rates up. ouch.

i use progressive right now, they even sent out letters saying rates were going up this time around for everyone b/c of more claims, disasters, etc etc. i probably need to shop rates again.

 

I'm 25 and just bought my TSX. I live in the Bay Area and I'm paying $1200 a year through Mercury Insurance. I have a spotless driving record and get 15% discount for having an engineering degree.

 

Too bad Progressive (& Geico) don't insure in NJ...

And the Bay Area in CA is a far cry from Paterson, NJ...

 

Whoa! Wait, how strict is that "engineering degree" thing? I have an engineering-related degree (cross-disciplinary major)...

 

You should ask your insurance agent. I don't actually have an "engineering" degree per se, but actually just computer science. It wasn't on the list when I asked my agent about it (mechanical, civil, aeronautical and a bunch of others were though), but my agent called the main headquarters and they said it was alright to give me a discount anyway. I guess they figured it was close enough. We're all pretty geeky.