This happened to my room mate's 04 MT

I have been researching alot on the tranny problems here and the web. The reason:
clonking noise .

Cause: Gear teeths broke off at 52000 miles. as investigated by the dealer and blammed for low/ empty tranny fluid.

THe dealer is not ack the warranty.

This can be a known problem for the 6spd. I have found atleast 4 people on this website who had this problem. Some people got lucky and some did not (aka my room mate) . The only choice he got was to trade in or replace (fix) for $4700. It might be relieving for others that dealer didn't say anything about the reflash...phew or the intake. They just sat at "not under warranty". WTF

SO he got the 6 spd TL. If I was him. I would have fought but thats just me.

So my question to everybody: anybody pass 50k miles and notice anything? Is this a bad tranny design? or is it bad driving habits?

what the fuck is going on with the TSX MT ???????????????

 

Umm, why not fight it w/ the Magnussen-Moss act if necessary. No point just ditching the car if it can be warrantied.

 

I only have 18K, but it's smoother now than ever. Low fluid sounds like something the owner should be responsible for.

 

Scary news. But I thought the factory warranty only cover 4 years or 50k miles, which ever come first.

 

When was the last time the fluid was changed? My local dealer says that they change the fluid every 15K, which I was planning to do anyway. My previous Honda (Prelude) was also known to have some MT problems, but I found it did a lot better when I changed the MT fluid, so I did it often.

 

Replace it at just 15K? Seems like the dealer trying to make a few extra dollars with an uneeded fluid change. The '04/05 manual states to change the fluid every 120k miles or 6 years for normal driving or 60k miles or 3 years for severe. It does say to check they level every 20k though.

 

It's 60K in the manual. Checking the level is up to the owner. I don't think the guy would have much of a case if it turned out the fluid was low, unless it was something the dealer did.

 

If the car was maintained by the dealer on a regular basis or at least somewhat regular basis, it is not the owner's fault.

If there is no sign of a leak, then the transmission probably was not filled properly at the factory, and the dealer never checked the fluid and/or they didn't do anything about it. Part of the PDI process is to check the transmission oil. Even with that, the QC process at the factory should've caught that before the car went out the door.

 

You can fight it. TSX's manual tranny is sealed. So if there is no leak at the transmission case, that means the low transmission fluid is the fault of Acura.

 

If he already traded in the car there's almost certainly nothing he can do in terms of fighting it.

 

^ agreed. You should have asked us before he did anything. With a sealed tranny, it is most definitely the dealers fault

 

Maybe. They said that they absorbed it into the price of their package deal, which I'm sure is a big chunk of change. Maybe it was the 30k service and I just mis-remember, but I just had it in my head that they might do it on my next oil change....

But on my Prelude, it most certainly made a difference, so I am inclined to have it changed "early" -- it's just a matter of deciding when is the best point.

I think the Prelude normally had 30k changes (severe schedule, I'm sure). I will say that the tranny on the TSX feels much better than the Prelude's, and I really haven't noticed a degraded performance, so I can believe it'll go longer on average without changing fluid, but it just seems like cheap insurance.

By the way, make sure that they really use MTF when they do change it, and not plain oil....

 

I don't doubt it made a difference on your Lude, but what year car are we talking about? I bet a lot of things about MTs have changed since then. I also agree on the point of using MTF and not just oil (even a synthetic one).

One more thing about MTF changes at the dealer, I find it odd that they always seem to charge more for a MTF change than an engine oil change when the MTF change requires less effort (since there is no filter to change) and less fluid. Granted the MTF on a per quart basis costs more, but the 2 quarts of MTF shouldn't total any more than 4.4 quarts of engine oil.

 

Even on TSXs people on this board have noted a very significant improvement after MTF changes. I think a 30k interval might be worth doing even if it's not necessary from a longevity standpoint.

Prices are affected by demand as well as supply. MTF changes cost more they are rarer.

 

I thought changing the transmission fluid in TSX takes more effort than changing engine oil. I have not change tranmission oil myself, but I vaguely remember the entire underbody plastic piece need to remove in order to drain MTF.

 

Just thought I'd pass on some info about the K-series trannies.

Across the K platforms, the gear designs are very similar. With the pre-2005 RSX-S, there were numerous complaints about the dreaded high-RPM grind. Although there wasn't a recall, a TSB was created and the designs on the 05/06 RSX-S has corrected this.

While I don't have confirmation, I suspect the '04 TSX may have had similar issues with the gear design. However, because of the fact TSX drivers rarely drive their cars hard as the RSX-S kids, the issue may have been overlooked.

Prior to my switchover to the post-TSB RSX-S gears, I would occasionally get the high-RPM 1-2 grind, even when the clutch was to the floor. With my new gears, it shifts like butter.

When you get the chance, browse around the k20A.org and clubrsx.com tranny sections. You'll see all the problems similar to the one your friend described.

 

I could see 30k; my initial post was questions changing it at 15k.

The demand is likely what makes the MTF cost more than engine oil (and I already talked about that), but I don't see how lower demand merits a higher labor price here.

 

I haven't done either on my TSX either. I admit I'm largely basing this off my experience with my '95 Civic. That car had no underbody plastic, but dealerships still charged a lot more for a MTF change even though it was easier and faster to do than an engine oil change.

 

[QUOTE=Black_6spd]Just thought I'd pass on some info about the K-series trannies.



Prior to my switchover to the post-TSB RSX-S gears, I would occasionally get the high-RPM 1-2 grind, even when the clutch was to the floor.

This is true, I have witnessed this in his car occasionally. To make the story short, my friend got the 6spd TL and all I have to say is WOW.

 

Well I agree 15 is probably a little excessive.

Same reason: people don't do MTF changes often, so they are willing to pay more per MTF change in labor costs. In fact, I'd guess that the impact on labor prices is much more (even percentage wise), since most of the MTF itself is consumed by shops (who purchase it in comparatively large quantities and hence have a strong incentive to shop around), whereas dealer labor is purchased in small quantities by people who we already know are willing to pay noncompetitive prices (since otherwise they wouldn't be at the dealer).

 

When I had my gears swapped, the Honda Mechanic who worked on my car told me, "Damn! Do you ever change or tranny fluid?!?!" (I only had 20k on the odo)

I replied, "The manual says to do it at 60k."

He told me, "Yeah, but look how black that is. We recommend around here to do it at 15k."

I have no idea if black=bad fluid.....

 

You don't need to take off the whole panel, just unclip one side. It's 2 nuts and a few plastic clips. I found it easier than draining engine oil. The downside is that the MTF that comes out will flow onto the subframe.... messy messy.

 

I think the emptying the tranny fluid is a little more complicated than opening the drain plug because of all the nooks and crannys in the gears.

 

No, it is that simple. Jack your car up, take off your driver's side front wheel. Put it on jack stands. Take off the back part of the splashguard. Lower the jack so that the car is level (but not smashed on the ground). Take off the filler bolt and the the drain bolt. Look at all the tranny fluid come out. Put back the drain bolt with a new washer and then fill 'er up with a tube and a funnel. When excess starts to spill out, stop filling, let the excess spill until it stops, wipe and put the filler bolt back with a new washer. Put it back on jackstands, put your splashguard back, clean any oily bits, put your wheel back and lower it back down. All done.

Your engine has way more and tighter nooks and crannies than a gearbox.

 

You can actually drain and fill from under the car without removing the wheel. Just use a pump and pump the MTL in the tran.

 

I think the real reason they charge more is simply because they can get it -- and that's mostly because the vast majority of people don't realize it's no harder than an oil change. Case in point, see fast1's comments above.