Saintor

And Acura.

05_TSX_GP

Just dropping a quick on this subject.

The more I see the E90 on the streets, the more I think most parts of it is way over-styled. It appears to be the trend with the BMW styling in recent models. On the E90, the rear part looks kind of wide and cramped with too many styling cues that make it distracting.

hans007

the e90, i'm going to have to say is not the nicest looking car in the world. especially when people buy it with 16" rims (which the real badge whores of los angeles tend to do since a lot of totally bare bones 325is get sold here).

with 17 or 18" rims it is not ugly or attractive. i think its acceptable. i have never driven an e90 before, but having driven some e46s, i'd say if it drives like at least an e46 i'd have to say it probably drives better than my tsx, though it wouldnt be hugely different. i'd say its the rwd layout if anything and that would likely only be a huge thing because of the weight balance. the tsx is really really good for a fwd car though. most fwd cars are far more front heavy feeling.

anyways, the new e90 interior though needs help. the plastics dont seem as nice as an e46 and it just doesnt seem "inviting" . its very .. much just a wall of buttons very flat, doesnt seem as ergonomic as the e46 or say a tsx. the tsx interior seems to wrap aruond the driver more, since the center stack comes out a bit like it wants you to use it.

i've sat in the new is250 as well. and that seems interior wise like a tsx, maybe a bit better material wise. very small car though. very expensive, sad to say the 325i might be a better value. i cant believe i just said that.

the tsx overall is just too good a value. even if the 325i drives a bit better, it is not worth $7-8k. 7-8k can buy other things for you. or you can save it as a down payment on the 2009 tsx.

05_TSX_GP

I've owned a E46, not a barebone one, it's 5MT + sports package with 17" rim on Conit summer rubber. I have yet to test drive the E90 but I am pretty sure it drives/handles better than the TSX when driving very hard. For spirited driving though (not full out track attact type), TSX does hold very well on its own, especially for a FWD.

Also very much on TSX overall great value!

vidgamer

I'd be interested to know how the A-spec suspension package would compare....

I was turned off by the interior of the 325i, but I like the exterior styling a lot. Oh well.

Honda seems to make cars that have more "balance". They do everything pretty well, even though on any one item, someone else might do better.

Schmed

Great metaphors, Vizado! I too had an '87 535is. That car ate up the road like no other. I drove 950 miles from Chicago to Denver and averaged (!) 81 mph for the whole trip. I got to Denver and promptly loaded the family in the car for a 40 mile drive. Seats were incredible, 3rd gear seemed to pull from 30 mph to 100 mph! Nice throaty european sound from the engine and exhaust. Sold that car for more than I paid. I'd buy it back for more than I sold it for. I miss that car. At the track, the 535is shined - very balanced, very composed at any speed and in any corner!

Belzebutt

You totally hit the nail on the head.

With the E90 interiors it's like you're sitting at a desk, real wood and everything. In my car, I want to feel like I'm in the cockpit of a jet. I don't want to have what looks like a piece of furniture substituting as a dashboard.

I'd say it's definitely better materials-wise, and styling is on par with the TSX. The guages are more upscale but not as readable as the TSX.

hans007

i was thinking more in terms of other things in life not necessarily car things.

for me the probably 9-10k difference plus tax to get a 325i is not worth me having to buy cheaper clothes, or cheaper food etc, you name it.

flyboicus

Speaking of BMW comparisons, I actually just went for my first test drive in a BMW (the 330i with 255 horses and sport package). A friend said I'd love the way it handles so I decided to see for myself. I realize this particular BMW and my TSX weren't perfectly matched, but I have to say, I was VERY impressed with the handling and driveability of the BMW, which of course, they're well known for.

Don't get me wrong, I like my '04 TSX, and for the money, it was a good deal. But I walked away from the BMW dealership feeling like I was missing that similar connection with the road in my TSX. The BMW took the hard bumps with a softness that made it feel like a luxury car (unlike feeling every bump in my TSX), but still with a good sense of the road that felt oh so nice. When it came time to maneuver and brake, it was really impressive...everything you could want in a sport/luxury sedan. And you have to admit, the BMW is a pretty sexy car.

Where I think my TSX excels, IMHO, is the interior layout and features for the money. The interior feels more comfortable and everything in the TSX is logically placed and very asthetic. The Nav is very usable. And the seats comfortable and supportive. Whereas the BMW interior felt a bit spartan for a luxury car.

Sadly, where I've also noticed my TSX falls short is the interior build quality. Since my car was one of the first runs, I guess I shouldn't be too suprised to have some issues with interior build quality like annoying rattles in the doors, vibrating rear-view mirror, rattles in the dome lights, and a shifting drivers seat. And I found my friend's 2003 Accord is quieter than the TSX, which was disappointing. I'm also craving more horsepower, and while I could hop up the car, I wish they'd offer the TL motor as an option.

For now, I'll probably stick with my TSX. The BMW can easily get up to over $40K since everything seems to be an option on it. Overall, the TSX it's a great little car for the money, fun to drive, and comfortable inside and out. Hopefully they've resolved a lot of the issues I've come across in my '04 in the newer '05/'06 models. Personally, I still think the TSX is a great deal, and a pretty sexy car overall (I've had a lot of women tell me they love the car ). If only they'd put that TL engine in it

ianS

This is where the a-spec suspension shine. After I got the a-spec, the ride of my TSX feel the same with my E46 with sport package. And after RSB, they handle very close.

BMW will give you more rattles and more annoying & major problems in the long run, just the notchy sloppy manual trans already good enough to ruin your mood on everyday driving.

flyboicus

Does A-Spec really make that much of a difference? It wasn't offered, of course, at the time I bought my TSX.

Forgive my ignorance. RSB? Rear Stabilizer Bar?

hans007

you also have to consider that the tires on the tsx that come stock are not the best for sporty driving

so if you have better tires (seeing as the 330 sport would have 18" rims and sport tires) it could be a different ride.

i have the stock tires and compared to say summer michelin pilot sports you can feel they are not quite there for cornering

ianS

Yes, a-spec really amaze me and you can get it now from ebay and install it by someone else ne time.

RSB = Rear sway bar, a $100 upgrade. It should be the best bang of the buck upgrade.

vidgamer

I have the a-spec and a set of sporty tires on my short list of mods. As much as I like the TSX's handling, I had in my mind from the start that I would like a bit more sporty handling, having a couple of great handling cars in the past.

I am nervous about the RSB, though, coz I don't want the rear to get TOO loose. Someone is going to have to make me feel less nervous about the mod before I do it. Mebbe I won't feel a need for it with the other mods.

Nikki

As far as performance, the TSX doesn't even compare to the BMW.
Even when you consider the extra $5k you'll spend on the e90, it's worth it if you are a driving enthusiast.
If you just commute back and forth to work and want a decent car, the TSX is fine,
but there is nothing like the thrill of driving a BMW.

aaronng

We here in Australia envy you guys. The E90 325i is twice the price of the TSX over here.....

flyboicus

Thanks for the info, guys.

I'm sure this has been debated a 100 times before, but what is the consensus on a good set of tires for the TSX? I'm definitely not thrilled with the stock Michelins and have a feeling a better set of tires might make all the difference in the world in terms of ride quality and noise.

vidgamer

Is it a brand of car or a religion?



Actually, I did drive a (much older) BMW a few times, and it was a blast.

Nikki

Yeah, with a nice set of summer tires it would be a completely different car.

hans007

i think comparably equipped, its at least 8 grand more. not the 5 grand number everyone quotes, which maybe would work if you stripped out a lot of stuff.

an e90 doesnt even come with 17" rims. leather seats, xenons, a 6 disc changer, power seats, yada yada

waTSX

This is a remarkably bold statement. I believe in another thread you stated you drive something like 15 miles one way to work, and that this constitutes most of your driving. How is this enthusiast driving?

There are plenty of opinions that run contrary to your narrow view of the TSX. A "decent car?" Give me a break. Why do you buy a BMW then continue to frequent a TSX board? Just to convince us hapless TSX owners of the mighty Bimmers superiority?

I'm glad you're excited about your car, but the merits of a brand new 325i certainly don't detract from the TSX's virtues. Maybe the E90 is worth the extra $5000 (probably closer to $8000 optioned out), but you make it sound like it's chump change.

TSXforme

I do recall that she owns a TSX and a 330. I think the 330 is a recent purchase of hers, so if anything I think she is the best source of information in comparing the 3 series vs a TSX.

ianS

Your E90 330 of course has better stright line performance than TSX and it is a $20000Cdn different too. I think no one buy TSX for its stright line performance. And I drive between my E46 328i (no dbw, no boosting steering and no cdv which is more of a enthusiast car than E90 from die hard bmw fans) & TSX everyday for commute back & forth and also with enthusiast driving for the past 1.5yr, I dun think driving a BMW is that much thrill than driving a TSX. For me the BMW are kind of a boring hwy curser and TSX is more for fun sprit driving because of his happy high rev engine and its super butter smooth manual tranny.

GIBSON6594

It is def more like 8K more. Price one out on the BMW website. To get everything the TSX has you have to add all the packages and a few option. Granted doing this will actually give you more features than the tsx (xenon are adaptive, headlight washers, seats are 8-way adjustable, adjustable lumbar support, power folding mirrors). The MSRP comes out to $39,125. A fully priced out TSX MSRP (these are without navi btw) comes out to $27,190. Consider this is also comparing a 2005 Acura to a 2006 BWM.

325i

TSX

ianS

headlight washer is useless, we all disconnect it.

fedlawman

The E90 325i with sport package has a Euro invoice of $27,800.

The TSX is an outstanding sporty sedan overall that's a hoot to drive, but if you care more about driving dynamics than bum warmers and xenons, the BMW is the only choice.

TSXforme

Well said!

waTSX

I know she owns a TSX. I also know she's looking to dump it. So why keep slumming around here? Go drive your Bimmer. In 15 mile chunks.

handsomegorge

BMW = bullshit motor werke

GIBSON6594

You may be right, but if your looking for both driving dynamics and a solid list of these features and a good price, TSX is the only choice

waTSX

That's great. Fedlaw, without taking ED, how many Seattle area folks do you think are nailing '06 325i's with the SP for anywhere near this price? Anywhere in the country, for that matter? I suspect not many.

I, for one, couldn't give less of a crap about bun warmers. I tried 'em when I first got the car, haven't had 'em on since. I would even hazard a guess that more BMW drivers care about such things than do TSX owners. You know, badge status and all that. Been through Bellevue lately? I wonder how many of those BMW owners are *enthusiast* drivers.

Fedlaw, I respect your opinion in this debate because I know you have far more knowledge about cars and driving in general than I do. I have never driven a BMW, so I must defer. But I am learning, and I just don't think that most BMW drivers purchase their cars for the same, pure reasons that you do. They just like to come around and crow a bit after they take the plunge.

waTSX

That's great. Fedlaw, without taking ED, how many Seattle area folks do you think are nailing '06 325i's with the SP for anywhere near this price? Anywhere in the country, for that matter? I suspect not many.

I, for one, couldn't give less of a crap about bun warmers. I tried 'em when I first got the car, haven't had 'em on since. I would even hazard a guess that more BMW drivers care about such things than do TSX owners. You know, badge status and all that. Been through Bellevue lately? I wonder how many of those BMW owners are *enthusiast* drivers.

Fedlaw, I respect your opinion in this debate because I know you have far more knowledge about cars and driving in general than I do. I have never driven a BMW, so I must defer. But I am learning, and I just don't think that most BMW drivers purchase their cars for the same, pure reasons that you do. They just like to come around and crow a bit after they take the plunge.

sauceman

There goes the perspective again...

waTSX

I completely disagree with this POV. I love BMW's. Always have. May own one someday.

It's just that reading some of these posts compels me to defend the TSX. I guess I'm just funny that way.

peterjedi

This magazine compares the TSX against the M3, for racing. The stock TSX does not compare as well to a stock BMW, but with modifcations of the wheels, tires, front brakes and springs and dampers, it can match an M3 in performance.

Pros on TSX:
1) Optimal suspension geometry thanks to double wish-bones, healthy displacement, and good wheelbase combine to make an excellent starting point.

Cons on TSX: Need more HP, better suspension, tires, and sway bar.

I believe if you replace the following parts, the TSX can easily compete with a BMW 325i.

Best tires:
BFGoodrich g-Force KD sized 225/40-18 and good set of 18 wheels.

Comptech shocks or A-spec shocks and strucks suspension.

Better break pads and rotor. (Skunk2)

A rear sway bar by Comptech would do wonders.

Check out the article. It sums up the TSX pretty well.

GIBSON6594

I can't stand when people compare a modded car to a stock car and call it an equal

peterjedi

Then I think you should sit down.

GIBSON6594

i am sitting down

Nikki

I agree that for $5k more you don't get a comparably equipped car,
but I said it was for a driving enthusiast.
That type of person wouldn't be spending the extra money to buy leather, xenons, etc.

As far as you knocking on my driving, yes I only commute about 2 miles a day,
but with the TSX that was about all of the driving I would do becuause it was boring.
With a car that is fun to drive, like the BMW, I actually want to drive around now.
I used to have an Integra GS-R and I drove that thing everywhere,
once I got my TSX, I only used it minimally, basically just to commute.

I know that $5k isn't "chump change" for many people,
but it isn't enough to make someone not consider it at all,
especially because of the huge difference in the way it drives,
and I don't mean 0-60, I mean fun to drive,
because if it isn't fun to drive, you won't want to drive it.
It doesn't matter if you can get to the next light faster,
if you don't even feel like getting there.

peterjedi

My point is you can made the same modifications to a BMW and you will not see much of a difference in handling between the two cars.

The TSX is a nicely build car. If you make modifications like simple add ons, the car would perform extremely well. Honda does a very good job in this area.