05_TSX_GP

aaronng

If you look at E46 interior and tsx interior photos, you'll notice that the way the glovebox section and the "sash" above the glovebox are so similar in the E46 and TSX. The E90's... hmm, I don't think I can learn to like it.

E90 lowspec


E90 high spec


E46


TSX

The Judge

BMW seems too plain, I would get bored of it so quickly, also everything is not level with the driver, as for the TSX everything seems like it's at your fingertips!

Howard911s

Honda is known for the sewing machine smooth engine

Bmw is known for its rough throttle and continuous torquy engine~ not a good comparison of both engines.. bmw loyalties will not like our engine being too quiet and smooth...

TSXforme

That's what many BMW enthusiasts love about their cars...the exhaust, the drivability, and the feel of the car. I recently test drove the 2006 325 as well, and I must admit that the 3 series does drive a lot nicer than my TSX, which is a big selling point for me. Engine wise, the TSX is a lot quieter, but both are equally nice power plants. In fact, I'm thinking about buying a 330 maybe in a couple of years.

ASpecTSX

I have a friend who has driven BMW's his entire life and even works at BMW. He got in my TSX the day after I bought it and his first comment was on how much better he liked it than the new 3-Series. Granted his comments were based purely on the aesthetics of the vehicle, but if you knew this guy you would know that he NEVER says a bad thing about BMW's and it must've killed him to say that he liked my TSX better!

vidgamer

Did your car have A-spec suspension installed when your BMW friend tried it out?

(I'm still wondering how much that evens up the score!)

calgary2800

Does bmw know how to make an interior feel not like a library. I sat in a black leather one and thought I went back in time to the days of jack the ripper and hg wells.

Saintor

I agree in part.

Coming from an Accord, I was surprised that my 325i sound was louder, but by no mean noisy. Just a purposeful, endearing and agressive sound which is indeed part of the fun. The TSX sounds like a typical Accord.

Rough idle is a stretch. Totally vibration-free on mine.

vidgamer

That's funny, my TSX seems to have a bit of a growl more than what I'd expect on an Accord... I dunno!

kyotousa

so if we put tein SS and RSB ...we might not be far off from RWD BMW huh?

just saying for 10K more.....why not just buy the G35 coupe XD
neither TSX or 325i can top that

PS I love my TSX but coming from Toyota Avalon...I had it's wide angle turn
wishbone design make the car more stable....but damn the turn is way too big.

Howard911s

You know how German are.. read a article about Maserati maker, he said you respect German car, cause it's perfect, you dont laugh, but you enjoy and be happy about italian car.. I guess that kinda sums up German car interior ha. or the attitute toward making one

TSXforme

In general, I could not think of a better way to describe the overall feel of the bimmer.

YBA

Seriously, I don't think it's the DBW you hate. I think it's the DBW in the TSX you hate. I don't like it either. On the other hand, my NSX has DBW and the throttle response is extremely quick. It's transparent.

I don't know why the TSX DBW is that slow.

vidgamer

I wish I could get a better feel for what to do about my suspension...

It's not really fair to compare with $10K more! Although, even less fair, I did test drive a slightly used G35 coupe. Wow, what a powerful car! Kind of uncomfortable though. Rear seat not really usable by adults, although I think you could probably fit young kids and/or baby seat in OK. It was high performance, but when you're not trying to have fun driving, it's less fun driving because the ride's a bit stiffer and the engine is high-strung. And then there's the gas milage... I dunno, it just all seemed a bit too much for me! I think if I didn't need more practicality in a car, I might have gone for it....

But if I wanted something really impractical, I'd just as soon go all the way and get a 2 seater sports car! Which is out of the question at this time of my life. Ah well, it's not all bad!

The thing that got me is that a new 325i was real close to that $10k more mark! I can get a TSX for about $25,500, but the 325i started at about $29k? And that's without leather, xenons, 17" rims, etc. If you started getting some features, you'd almost be better off with the 330i, then you're talking $36k! Well, actually, I considered maybe a 325i with a sports package and not too many options, but you're still talking $31k+.

I just couldn't do it. Although, I do regret not being able to schedule a test drive with the BMW. I would have liked to be able to make some driving comparisons. I really do prefer the interior of the TSX at least. And I think that the TSX rips off some ideas from BMW's past and combines it with great Honda reliability.

I'm going to have to pay more attention while driving. I haven't noticed a real problem with the DBW. I did drop in a K&N air filter and mebbe that does something for throttle response! (Probably not?) Maybe they build in a slight lag on purpose for economy; generally, when I want more performance I also let it rev higher (lower gears) so that probably makes some difference, but I dunno.

Do Hondata owners find that it's better?

kyotousa

[QUOTE=vidgamer]I wish I could get a better feel for what to do about my suspension...



It's not really fair to compare with $10K more! Although, even less fair, I did test drive a slightly used G35 coupe. Wow, what a powerful car! Kind of uncomfortable though. Rear seat not really usable by adults, although I think you could probably fit young kids and/or baby seat in OK. It was high performance, but when you're not trying to have fun driving, it's less fun driving because the ride's a bit stiffer and the engine is high-strung. And then there's the gas milage... I dunno, it just all seemed a bit too much for me! I think if I didn't need more practicality in a car, I might have gone for it....

But if I wanted something really impractical, I'd just as soon go all the way and get a 2 seater sports car! Which is out of the question at this time of my life. Ah well, it's not all bad!

The thing that got me is that a new 325i was real close to that $10k more mark! I can get a TSX for about $25,500, but the 325i started at about $29k? And that's without leather, xenons, 17" rims, etc. If you started getting some features, you'd almost be better off with the 330i, then you're talking $36k! Well, actually, I considered maybe a 325i with a sports package and not too many options, but you're still talking $31k+.

I just couldn't do it. Although, I do regret not being able to schedule a test drive with the BMW. I would have liked to be able to make some driving comparisons. I really do prefer the interior of the TSX at least. And I think that the TSX rips off some ideas from BMW's past and combines it with great Honda reliability.
QUOTE]
I like BMW's front end but the rear is ugly for my taste.

With 325i being 35K - 40K range...I wonder who are their target?

for G35 coupe comment.....gas mileage sux but if you feel coupe is uncomfortable why not buy a 4 dr....i am sure it'll fix that.
I set in my friend's G35 coupe it does feel tight......I think their seat is more sporty.

Something that compare to 325i should be TL, IS350, G35...
not TSX....
I am pretty sure that a 40K car will beat TSX in most of the categories hahahaha, eeven though i never like BMW's interior.

If the consumers are really compare BMW 325 to TSX......then the BMW is fighting a loosing battle.

kyotousa

I like BMW's front end but the rear is ugly for my taste.

With 325i being 35K - 40K range...I wonder who are their target?

for G35 coupe comment.....gas mileage sux but if you feel coupe is uncomfortable why not buy a 4 dr....i am sure it'll fix that.
I set in my friend's G35 coupe it does feel tight......I think their seat is more sporty.

Something that compare to 325i should be TL, IS350, G35...
not TSX....
I am pretty sure that a 40K car will beat TSX in most of the categories hahahaha, eeven though i never like BMW's interior.

If the consumers are really compare BMW 325 to TSX......then the BMW is fighting a loosing battle.

kyotousa

cuz I am disliking TSX's turning radius hahahaha

I think i read some where it's because of the wishbone axle design?? not sure

waTSX

While the TSX's turning radius is an occasional pain in the ass, it's nothing that would ever keep me from buying the car. In fact, I can't think of anything that would be lower on my list of priorities.

Guess I'm a little surprised at the amount of play this is getting

waTSX

Vidgamer, I'm in the same boat as you: I'm considering suspension upgrades, but I definitely don't want to slam the car. I'm looking at the A-Spec suspension because it seems like a nice compromise. One of the above posters said it makes the car firmer, not stiffer.

Not sure what that means unless he's equating stiff with harsh. Firmer I can live with, but I don't want harsher. It's a tough call, 'cause I don't want to mess with the everyday driveability of the car.

I may just start out by going with lighter wheels, hi-grade rubber and a rear swaybar. If I want more after that, I might take a closer look at the A-Spec.

jimstsx

I had a Passat 1.8T almost a year ago and have to agree. That car stock was a dog compared to the TSX.

Although the TSX is stlil not quite fast enough itself.

TSX69

I did contemplate a 3series for all of a hot minute but passed for several reasons

• Seemed a bit overpriced
• On the small side
• The interior looked cheap (I think it's a German thing)
• I wanted to stay w/ Japanese
• Rumor has it maintenance is anything but cheap

xenonhid

WHATTT?!!!
Reasons to get 3 Series! if you cant afford M3 with competition package

1) AC Schnitzer mods
2) AC Schnitzer mods
3) AC Schnitzer mods
4) oh yeah, BMW's modified correctly looks f**kin cool and make Ricers wonder why they have spoilers that look like shopping cart handles!

TSX was the closest thing I could get to the 3 series or M3 for the price. Still happy with the TSX.

fedlawman

The TSX is a terrific car for the money, but...

If I were going to buy a car in this segment today, I'd pay a dealer $1000 over invoice ($27,350) and order a no-option 2006 325i for European Delivery. Add $750 for round-trip airfare and three nights lodging in Munich, and you've got the best performing entry-lux sedan in this class for a smidge over $28,000.

Given the choice between xenons and leather vs. trailing throttle oversteer, I'll take the oversteer every time.

TSX69

I think you might have me confused w/ someone who loves to mod/rice out their car that they enjoy driving. The only thing I have done is tint the windows bc I have ebony interior & I am not all that concerned w/ making my drive to work feel like the racetrack.

Oh, my TSX is paid for so it is not that I could not afford a BMW, I just did not think that it was worth it. Just like most of us can afford a $10 loaf of bread (ie, will not make us broke) but we are not about to pay it bc it is overpriced

Saintor

But some purists will pay for it and will even be able to get a very good resale value for a few slices .

I don't think that a 44500$ 325i Sport Pack w/sunroof i is much overpriced over a 36000$ TSX. I can certainly live without leather and power seats, given a trade for an I6 and RWD.

More than 50% of the difference will be recovered at resale.

biker

I would just add the metallic paint option - the three standard colors are a bit boring.

vidgamer

While I agree with your points, as for maintenance, at least in the early life of the car, should be pretty cheap. I thought they even had free oil changes? It is probably pricey down the road though.

But yeah, I guess I thought it was just a lot of money, and then you don't even get all of the extras or it's more money, and for all that, it had better be one heck of a car! But fiscal responsibility has to take over at some point. I can get a TSX and get a ton of extras before even hitting the base price of the BMW. Not bad.

As for power, I guess you can always have a bit more, but it seems pretty decent to me... ??? I just will try to avoid drag racing Rustangs.

savageTL

All maintenance is free for 4/50, BUT does get expensive after that if you make the silly choice of going back to the stealer, though you can save even more money with Japanese cars at indy shops.

gthrow8awayr

Can someone explain the terminology that people use about BMW's?

I know that "Bimmer" refers to BMW and that a 3'series has the thingy start with a 3xx and a 7 series with a 7xx.

But what is this business about m3's and e90's?

In all seriousness can you please educate me on this dogma.

Thanks =)

gthrow8awayr

sry for highjacking this threads...and please don't shove another banning up my arse MODS. Thanks.

jedexec

The smooth ride of the BMW is attributed to the design of the bushings, which as a result need to be frickin' replaced every year...

savageTL

M3 is THE performance model of the 3 series, to be honest I am surprised you have never heard of them, it is the sport "sedan" legend. Sedan in quotes since in its most recent iteration it is only available as a coupe/cab but arguably they are sedans at least as racing classes see them. M3 is the model there is not a 3xx designation for them. In the past there was an M1 (first M car, exotic and extremely low volume, M3s, M5s, M coupe/roadster based on the Z3 and the M6 is coming as well as the at least rumored Z4 M and possible Z4 M roadster. The M sport division is similar to Mercedes' AMG and Audi's quattro GmbH (ie: S and RS4, S and RS6) they are inhouse tuners who sell finished cars through the normal dealer channels.

The Exx is the BMW chassis code. For the 3 series the E90 is the currect sedan version the E46 is the previous sedan version but still the current coupe/cab chassis code, the E36 and E30 preceded them. Note the Exx runs through the entire lineup for example the E60 is the currect 5 series chassis code. Where Japanese enthusiasts tend to talk about generations the Euro fans tend to talk in chassis codes the Audi Bs, BMW Es, Merc Ws and Porsche 9xx. Outside the 9xx designations from Porsche the BMW Exx designations probably invade the car enthusiast and journalist lexicon more than most other chassis codes except for maybe the Corvette Cx (with the exception the Cx for Corvettes is merely the generation).

savageTL

That is the first time I have heard of that, I have 27+ car/years of Bimmer ownership and never had to replace one, even at over 120K. I'll admit that as a whole BMW's have some long term maintenance issues but just never heard of that one, have any reference or at least what chassis this problem infests/infested?

savageTL

Regarding chassis codes I just thought of a Japanese car you almost always see chassis codes with instead of generation, the Skyline almost always is talked about with its R3X designation. Also interesting that you hear Japanese car engines chatted about using designations where it is less common with Euro engines except for a few of the legendary engines like the S54.

gthrow8awayr

Thank you sir. We need more people like you on this forum.

ianS

Control arm bushing on E36 & E46 are well known common pitfall. Almost all owners(50+) that I know were have those replaced at least once. And I have those replaced 3 times in 5 yr. You want proof? go to E46fanatics and search for control arm bushing, you will able to see millions of thread complaint about it. And here is some vendor try to solve this issue with urthene bushing.http://www.e46fanatics.com/features/...php?news_id=40

I doubt bimmer really has high resale value. It seems like the resale of bone stock without any option may be higher than average but who will order a bimmer without option? I need to put $10000 option on my 328i in order to make it has the standard of Accord but I won't able to get a single penny of that $12000 back on resale. Last year when I appraise the trade in value of my 4 yr loaded 328i was only $3000 more than my 6yr Prelude base which my Prelude has 30000km more mileage. But I paid $48000 on my 328i and only $26000 on my Prelude (both before tax and after discount). And also if you can get 15% discount on a brand new car, how can the resale be high?

savageTL

Thanks, it seems I avoided the issues since my E36 and E46 were both M cars and apparently it is not BMW as a whole just the 3er chassis. BTW I was NOT trying to pick a fight just hadn't personally run into the issue.

As for resell I do think you will have a hard time supporting the claim since most ever objective source consistently ranks BMW among the highest resell value along with Lexus and Honda. It is also true that options do not fair as well as base cars in resell but this is normal with all cars, Honda and Acura avoid this to some degree with limited options, you can see this most easily with the myriad of Accord models where the EX is outpaced by the LX in resell by some 11% at 5 years. BMWs are NOT cheap to buy or own but as long as they and others like Lexus can maintain a perceived value higher than other marques they will continue to be able to charge more for their product. That said Acura is almost universally a value leader but this in and of itself hurts perceived value to some extent, never the less Acuras and Hondas are one companies whos cars you can recommend universally to firends and family without caveat.

For me I have had great luck with Acuras, 2 of which made it to 100K without any repair work, but as a counter point when I walked into my garage planning on a late night trist with a twisty mountain road I also walked past the Acuras and fired up something from Munich or Stuttgart instead, cars are like most women, the ones that are the hottest and most fun to drive tend to be higher maintenance. In the end though if I were confined to one car it would in all likelyhood be a Honda or Toyota product since getting to work without problems is more important than taking a curve in a gentle four wheel drift much like having a wife that is a friend and lover than the hottest women in the world that leaves you panting once a week but is a terrible friend and an inept mother. To date few women and fewer (any?) car companies have bridged that gap, which seems to beg the need for poligamy and multi-car garages...

ianS

You drive a M, it is a different story! so as I won't compare S2000 to TSX! If I have a M3 and a S2000 in my garage, I think I will take the S2000 for twisty road. My 328i doesn't drive any better than my TSX in ne aspect. And the notchy and sluggish feel of the manual box from my bimmer very irritate me. And I also dun find ne other 320, 323, 325, 328(from my friends or other board memebers) has better condition than mime. 330 zhp 6sp is the only non-M E46 that I feel it is better than TSX. The main reason for me to get the TSX is my wife & I dun want to put our kids on risk ne more! we are scare of the car suddenly stall when I making a left turn that due to vanos problem. we dun want to have the whole family sitting in the middle of a hwy because of the fault tempeture sensor. We are sick of having our baby sitting in the car after seeing the doctor but the car won't start at all and the outside temp is -30C! I hate to only able to drive on 1st, 2nd and 5th gear when the car is not warm up enough in cold weather.... I am already sit idle to warm it up for 5 min! BMW not willing to buy the car back and no Acura willing to take this shit as trade in. And I already spent $15000 to fix this & that after the warranty, so I better keep driving it but not with my kids for sure.

Updated new problem on my bimmer:
1, whole tank of windshield washer keep vapourized in 1 week of time without any leaking spotted.
2, alternator belt is going to break in ne time, parts in back order.
3, hand brake not able to hold the car even new hand brake shoes replaced and adjusted

I still think BMW is way better than MB, Audi, Volvo & Saab in terms of driving feel, value and aging. If they can solve the relability issue and give me a manual box that not notchy, I dun mind to buy it again next time.

fedlawman

My 1988 E30 325is has 125,000 miles. Only scheduled maintenance and wear and tear items replaced over it's entire life.