TMIC R&D by ETS
Suzuka Master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 8,490
Likes: 609
Actually, an intake working well or not has little to nothing to do with the reflash. It has everything to do with the quality of the manufacturing process on the aftermarket intake in question.
On cars with an Air Flow Meter (or a Mass Airflow Sensor), the diameter of the pipe and the smoothness of the air flow surrounding the sensor are all that matters. The ECU has a table that tells it how many grams per second of air flow is coming into the engine when the sensor returns a particular voltage. If the diameter of the pipe is off from stock, even by a fraction of an inch, it'll affect the flow dynamics enough to skew the voltage that gets returned to the ECU. In turn this will cause the ECU to inject either too much or too little fuel into the engine.
Generally, when changing the AFM housing from stock, you need to re-calibrate the ECU's AFM/voltage table for the change in flow so the ECU can properly fuel the motor. Almost none of the aftermarket intake manufacturers for Honda vehicles build their intakes properly to deal with this... Mainly because they were always spoiled since Honda's engines ran off MAP based logic alone until 2006.
cp-e says on their site that they are using an expensive process for creating the AFM housing and it is within extremely tight tolerances (thousandths of an inch). I'm hoping this means that it is good to go and won't cause any fueling issues. Since feedback on it has been positive so far, I'm guessing so. I too will be getting a cp-e intake soon.
All of this to say that if the cp-e intake works well with the stock logic, it'll work fine with the Hondata logic as well since it keeps the stock calibration for the AFM/voltage table. Changing the intake on a car generally makes little to no difference in the acceptable ignition values so that's nothing to be concerned about. It can however change the optimal cam angles (VTC) just slightly....
On cars with an Air Flow Meter (or a Mass Airflow Sensor), the diameter of the pipe and the smoothness of the air flow surrounding the sensor are all that matters. The ECU has a table that tells it how many grams per second of air flow is coming into the engine when the sensor returns a particular voltage. If the diameter of the pipe is off from stock, even by a fraction of an inch, it'll affect the flow dynamics enough to skew the voltage that gets returned to the ECU. In turn this will cause the ECU to inject either too much or too little fuel into the engine.
Generally, when changing the AFM housing from stock, you need to re-calibrate the ECU's AFM/voltage table for the change in flow so the ECU can properly fuel the motor. Almost none of the aftermarket intake manufacturers for Honda vehicles build their intakes properly to deal with this... Mainly because they were always spoiled since Honda's engines ran off MAP based logic alone until 2006.
cp-e says on their site that they are using an expensive process for creating the AFM housing and it is within extremely tight tolerances (thousandths of an inch). I'm hoping this means that it is good to go and won't cause any fueling issues. Since feedback on it has been positive so far, I'm guessing so. I too will be getting a cp-e intake soon.
All of this to say that if the cp-e intake works well with the stock logic, it'll work fine with the Hondata logic as well since it keeps the stock calibration for the AFM/voltage table. Changing the intake on a car generally makes little to no difference in the acceptable ignition values so that's nothing to be concerned about. It can however change the optimal cam angles (VTC) just slightly....
Again, Just to be clear, Sean Church did not make a Down Pipe for the RDX, he made a cat back sys for which the tune you refer to was toyed with!
The confusion here is how the term Down Pipe is used. When refering to said item we mean a deletion of the primary cat that which was not done at Church! Link to Actual thread https://acurazine.com/forums/1g-rdx-performance-parts-modifications-162/history-rdx-hondata-reflash-802555/
Few have made a primary cat delete (downpipe) for the RDX, the first being Pang Cheung @ PFabrications in Denver (who only made one for himself)https://acurazine.com/forums/1g-rdx-performance-parts-modifications-162/built-3-downpipe-cat-deletes-682724/ and the another person Donald Godfrey who is the only one to have had produced a downpipe for sale https://acurazine.com/forums/1g-rdx-performance-parts-modifications-162/rdx-down-pipe-cat-delete-818921/
The AEM FIC and patch cord have been concidered in the past but not tested. The 'Battle Royale' aspect of fuel trims was a/the deterrant.
BOV leaking off boost up top?.....not sure about that but think its more the wastegate/tune......more testing need here I guess
Cp-e intake sys.....lots of research/testing went into this and results in the most HP increase of them available. I believe they tuned the intake to lean the AFR a bit for increased power.
Great stuff guys keep up the good work and research
The confusion here is how the term Down Pipe is used. When refering to said item we mean a deletion of the primary cat that which was not done at Church! Link to Actual thread https://acurazine.com/forums/1g-rdx-performance-parts-modifications-162/history-rdx-hondata-reflash-802555/
Few have made a primary cat delete (downpipe) for the RDX, the first being Pang Cheung @ PFabrications in Denver (who only made one for himself)https://acurazine.com/forums/1g-rdx-performance-parts-modifications-162/built-3-downpipe-cat-deletes-682724/ and the another person Donald Godfrey who is the only one to have had produced a downpipe for sale https://acurazine.com/forums/1g-rdx-performance-parts-modifications-162/rdx-down-pipe-cat-delete-818921/
The AEM FIC and patch cord have been concidered in the past but not tested. The 'Battle Royale' aspect of fuel trims was a/the deterrant.
BOV leaking off boost up top?.....not sure about that but think its more the wastegate/tune......more testing need here I guess
Cp-e intake sys.....lots of research/testing went into this and results in the most HP increase of them available. I believe they tuned the intake to lean the AFR a bit for increased power.
Great stuff guys keep up the good work and research
Last edited by Mr Marco; Jan 6, 2012 at 10:56 AM.
Suzuka Master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 8,490
Likes: 609
Racer
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 261
Likes: 18
From: el Burrito
Hahaha wasn't trying to talk you into it. Just making sure you understood the real issues behind tuning/intakes. I can't even get the reflash (yet, if ever, grrr)...lol.
As for dealing with modifications and data. I went ahead and placed an order for an OBDII datalogger last night. I'm hoping it can access enough of the OBDII data that I can do testing as I do mods to get everyone solid info on how these things affect the car.
Marco, I'd be interested in doing some logging on your car both before and after you install the intake. That way we can see how it affects the tune and such - no more guessing about who did what. I will be getting the intake as well at some point, just not sure how soon.
Of course I still need to receive said logger and make sure it'll even work properly with our chassis. That said, I can look at the raw obdii data on my laptop through my flashpro without issue, I just can't log it (because Hondata never meant for you too).... so I'm fairly confident that the logger I bought will work fine.
As for dealing with modifications and data. I went ahead and placed an order for an OBDII datalogger last night. I'm hoping it can access enough of the OBDII data that I can do testing as I do mods to get everyone solid info on how these things affect the car.
Marco, I'd be interested in doing some logging on your car both before and after you install the intake. That way we can see how it affects the tune and such - no more guessing about who did what. I will be getting the intake as well at some point, just not sure how soon.
Of course I still need to receive said logger and make sure it'll even work properly with our chassis. That said, I can look at the raw obdii data on my laptop through my flashpro without issue, I just can't log it (because Hondata never meant for you too).... so I'm fairly confident that the logger I bought will work fine.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 876
Likes: 21
Since everybody were aiming for the price of MazdaSpeed3 ETS IC price in the beginning.
May be we should set up a 5 ppl Group Buy by ETS for the 1st batches ?
Lower the price a bit so it won't waste the afford by ETS.
What you think, Micheal?
We (RDX community) have a extremely unbelievable tiny small market.
BU
Last edited by BU; Jan 6, 2012 at 04:38 PM.
Intermediate
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 35
Likes: 1
From: Georgia
Cruisin'
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 23
Likes: 8
Let me suggest.
Since everybody were aiming for the price of MazdaSpeed3 ETS IC price in the beginning.
May be we should set up a 5 ppl Group Buy by ETS for the 1st batches ?
Lower the price a bit so it won't waste the afford by ETS.
What you think, Micheal?
We (RDX community) have a extremely unbelievable tiny small market.
BU
Since everybody were aiming for the price of MazdaSpeed3 ETS IC price in the beginning.
May be we should set up a 5 ppl Group Buy by ETS for the 1st batches ?
Lower the price a bit so it won't waste the afford by ETS.
What you think, Micheal?
We (RDX community) have a extremely unbelievable tiny small market.
BU
Have a great weekend everyone! If you want to get in on the group buy. Simply send paypal to sales@extremeturbosystems.com or call me at 360-896-3000
Thanks!
Michael
Suzuka Master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 8,490
Likes: 609
initial drive d
OK, let me preface this with it was a typical Oregon day with steady rain. Over all pretty much what I expected with nice moderate gains in HP across the board. Passed two cars on the freeway ramp when Im usually only good for 1-1/2. The big surprise for me came when I tapped the pedal under low rpm. I felt a new tug in torque that was never there before.
I will take it out Saturday after the rain subsides for a real rally.
I will take it out Saturday after the rain subsides for a real rally.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 876
Likes: 21
Lets do this. We get (5) people in the group buy I will do it for $599.00 Shipped in the 48 states Have a great weekend everyone!
If you want to get in on the group buy. Simply send paypal to sales@extremeturbosystems.com or call me at 360-896-3000
Thanks!
Michael
Have a great weekend everyone! If you want to get in on the group buy. Simply send paypal to sales@extremeturbosystems.com or call me at 360-896-3000
Thanks!
Michael
You got my business.
1. BU (money sent)
2.
3.
4.
5.
P.S. I (we) would like to Thanks Mr. Marco for his time & his car as test vehicle.
Last edited by BU; Jan 6, 2012 at 07:16 PM.
Intermediate
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 48
Likes: 1
Lets do this. We get (5) people in the group buy I will do it for $599.00 Shipped in the 48 states Have a great weekend everyone!
If you want to get in on the group buy. Simply send paypal to sales@extremeturbosystems.com or call me at 360-896-3000
Thanks!
Michael
Have a great weekend everyone! If you want to get in on the group buy. Simply send paypal to sales@extremeturbosystems.com or call me at 360-896-3000
Thanks!
Michael
'06 RL Tech
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 718
Likes: 38
From: Beaumont Texas/The Right Side of Texas
I really hate to add this in the winter because it drives so great in the winter air, even for SE Texas. Adding it in the summer to really see the difference would be optimal to me. Still want one.
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 238
Likes: 14
From: Reno' NV
This will go well with the mods I have it should really pull and I plan to have it re dyno in June at Church will keep you guys updated and also some thanks to Marco for donating his Rdx as a test vehicle .
Cruisin'
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 23
Likes: 8
Yes, we can ship to canada. Email me your postal code to sales@extremeturbosystems.com or post it up here and I will get you a quote.
Racer
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 261
Likes: 18
From: el Burrito
1. BU (money sent)
2. Ed - money sent
3. CreoUCLA - money sent
4. Jay - money sent - please don't ship, will come to shop and pick up
5.
Doug @ Hondata emailed me back last night. Reflash for 2012 RDX is in the cards for this year. He's also going to work on fixing the existing Flashpro firmware so it can be used as a datalogger.
2. Ed - money sent
3. CreoUCLA - money sent
4. Jay - money sent - please don't ship, will come to shop and pick up
5.
Doug @ Hondata emailed me back last night. Reflash for 2012 RDX is in the cards for this year. He's also going to work on fixing the existing Flashpro firmware so it can be used as a datalogger.
2008 Acura RDX
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 1,227
Likes: 58
From: Jamaica W.I.
1. BU (money sent)
2. Ed - money sent
3. CreoUCLA - money sent
4. Jay - money sent - please don't ship, will come to shop and pick up
5. Mark - money sent
Thats the 5.....Lets get em delivered
2. Ed - money sent
3. CreoUCLA - money sent
4. Jay - money sent - please don't ship, will come to shop and pick up
5. Mark - money sent
Thats the 5.....Lets get em delivered
Burning Brakes
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 876
Likes: 21
Please don't hesitate if you plan to build a RDX DownPipe & MidPipe as well.
I surfed your website and saw some quality work on header you built for others vehicles.
BU
Racer
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 261
Likes: 18
From: el Burrito
With intake, this intercooler, and a reflash, we'll be almost out of injector. Throw on a DP and midpipe and you're asking for trouble. We need tuning so we can add larger injectors. The RDX's 410cc injectors are pretty puny.
Pro
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 635
Likes: 48
From: NY
Would the TMIC be asking for trouble without a proper tuning or can I get away safely with the stock injectors for now?
not an SUV ...a Big Hatch
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 853
Likes: 89
From: Tustin, CA
...out of this combo the tuning biggie would be the DP and subsequently the midpipe. Reflash will have more effect on fuel inj % than anything else, just cause it tells it to allow more boost/fuel. the intercooler core doesn't look waaay larger, nor the pipes, it'll just cool better, as if you were on a cold night vs. warm day. TMIC Should be less of an issue than the other items.
Cruisin'
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 23
Likes: 8
RDX Group BUy
We have (5) guys paid for right now. So we will get started on building these units. If anyone else wants in send an email to Michael@extremeturbosystems.com
Thanks Guys!
Michael
Thanks Guys!
Michael
not an SUV ...a Big Hatch
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 853
Likes: 89
From: Tustin, CA
6.
7.
8...
Cruisin'
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 23
Likes: 8
Hey Guys, we also might be building an intake depending if Marco wants to keep the CP-E or have us build one and dyno test it.
I will keep you guys updated with what goes on. Do any of you need an intake besides him?
Thanks,
Michael
I will keep you guys updated with what goes on. Do any of you need an intake besides him?
Thanks,
Michael
not an SUV ...a Big Hatch
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 853
Likes: 89
From: Tustin, CA
Thanks for taking the initiative Michael.
Some folks may want intakes. More may buy an intake than say an exhaust, just due to price, however Nobody makes any exhaust for the RDX. Just throwing it out there. (A nice 3" mandrel bent with Carbon wrapped can with a 4" Ti tip (single or dual, as that's just the axle back portion) would do nicely...dreaming aloud...my RDX has HKS envy when it looks at my WRX Wagon).
Again, Thanks for the work you've done already, and for possibly giving us AZ/RDX-ers a different intake option.
Some folks may want intakes. More may buy an intake than say an exhaust, just due to price, however Nobody makes any exhaust for the RDX. Just throwing it out there. (A nice 3" mandrel bent with Carbon wrapped can with a 4" Ti tip (single or dual, as that's just the axle back portion) would do nicely...dreaming aloud...my RDX has HKS envy when it looks at my WRX Wagon).
Again, Thanks for the work you've done already, and for possibly giving us AZ/RDX-ers a different intake option.
Pro
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 635
Likes: 48
From: NY
...out of this combo the tuning biggie would be the DP and subsequently the midpipe. Reflash will have more effect on fuel inj % than anything else, just cause it tells it to allow more boost/fuel. the intercooler core doesn't look waaay larger, nor the pipes, it'll just cool better, as if you were on a cold night vs. warm day. TMIC Should be less of an issue than the other items.
Pro
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 723
Likes: 43
I'm stock - what gains?
How much to 95670?
Racer
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 261
Likes: 18
From: el Burrito
Racer
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 261
Likes: 18
From: el Burrito
We have (5) guys paid for right now. So we will get started on building these units. If anyone else wants in send an email to Michael@extremeturbosystems.com
Thanks Guys!
Michael
Thanks Guys!
Michael