changed oil with quaker state ultimate full synthetic. got them from shell gas station with the mobil1 filter for 27$. i usually pay 50$ for mobil1 oil and filter. my warranty is over so screw M1 plus QS is fine oil, better pour point of -45'c, which matters in Canada. however i usually buy PP for my cars but this deal was too good to pass.

Anyway, the filter is high capacity (claims 2x). i filled up the car with 4.8L of oil,then checked the dipstick and found the oil mark sitting just below the second hole (about 80% of the distance between the two holes are covered in oil). Am i low on oil since oil level is not at or slightly above the top indicator hole? is this because of higher capacity mobil1 filter?

 

Which shell station is this ? They sell M1 filter ?

4.73L usually gets me to the 2nd hole. Is the M1 filter any bigger physically or does it just claim 2x more capacity?

 

oops sorry, i got the filter from canadian tire $11 since i read very good tests and reviews about them. got the oil 3-4 months ago $27, cant remember i think it was highway 7 and woodbine station. the filter looked slightly bigger (longer). i dumped 5 bottles of oil in there and still havent reached second hole :\ i'm worried since thinner oil burn easier and there is a risk of running on low oil. why does this car take so much damn oil? another bottle of QSud will cost me $11 which really kills the whole point of cheap oil change.

 

you're complaining about 5L ? lol how much does your 135 take ?

But ya I think you put on the wrong filter, I never need more then 4.73L (for both RDX and TL)

 

i didn't know there is a right or wrong filter. i certainly won't ever use oem since they are fram filters. The bimmer has a oil capacity indicator in the idrive system, i just fill till it indicates full level (there is no dipstick). It does take more than the RDX but that's a 6 cylinder 3L engine vs rdx 4-cylinder 2.3L. Whole reason i bought a 4-cyl was to have cheaper maintenance and service. so far the rdx has cost me more $ than the bimmer from 2010-present. I was very happy with my 2003 Acura TL, the easiest oil and transmission fluid changes in the world, a 12 year old can maintain the TL. it only takes 4.3L of fluid for a v6 that's good. i think acura has unnecessarily made things harder for us to make more profit. i can't even change a fog light without removing the bumper now.

 

Give Bosch premium a try. Look for it on autopartsway.ca website.

 

thanks for the link. i don't know much canadian auto part sites, made most of my purchases from the US. if you know any other sites plz let me know.

 

Sounds like you want a 4 cyl with the power and torque of a 6 or 8 cyl, with the oiling costs and capacity of a Smart car.

Really? I don't mean to be hurtful, but follow me here...

Okay, you bought an in line four thinking you'll save money.

Did you know it had a turbo when you bought it?

Then it needs more boost. Sweet. Crank it up. More power.

Turbo working any harder to make more boost? And the oil?

I get oil from Walmart. M1 is ~ $23 for a 5 qt bottle. M1 filter from Autozone is ~ $11. Thats ~ $34.

$34x2(per/yr) = $68x10yrs=$680(me) vs $540(you)

Prices vary, but thats a savings of ~ $14/ yr.

For our other Hondas I use the o/e filter ~ $5 ea.

Our '00 Prelude (sold, sniff) used 5.1 qts. Always M1.

When we opened it up to adj the valves and replace the timing belt, it was clean as new under the valve cover.

While you may or may not get the same results with another oil, I would not risk it for the amount of money you save.

If I needed to cut costs I would use the o/e filter with M1 oil in the RDX.

$23 + 5 = $28

Do you feel Acura is somehow making more money by having an "unnecessarily" greater oil capacity?

And then you put in what sounds like a higher capacity filter and complain about it needing more oil.

Sorry, I'm not feelin' ya.

To me its like those people who put low grade fuel in the RDX trying to save money.

Cheap fuel is only very slightly cheaper, making less power, and potential engine damage.

Hello knock sensor, I need you now.

Skip Starbucks about four times per year and "splurge" on the RDX operation and maint.

Or consider a more economical ride.

Do they make a Smart for five?

 

I use knn oil filters on all my cars, been doing it for many years, I think they're the best, and that nut makes install a breeze.

 

http://www.showmetheparts.com/mobil/#

I looked up the oil filter info at the above site

Mobil makes 2 filters that fit the RDX.

M04612 (blue, non-mobil 1)
OD- 2.65(67mm)
HT- 2.51
ID- M20x1.5 Thd

M1-110 (black, Mobil 1)
OD- 2.67(68mm)
Ht- 3.35(85mm)
Id- M20x1.5

OP - If you used the M04612 before and then the M1-110 now, then yes it needs a tiny bit more oil to fill to the normal level due to the size diff shown above.

Besides the slight size diff, the media is paper in the cheap one and synthetic in the M1, with more filter surface area, allowing longer oci due to less pressure drop when old and dirty.

Longer oci is what they are refering to with the term extended performance.

 

yes i used m1-110. i poured in 4.8l and still not up to second hole. i might top it off later if i find the same oil for cheap. i don't believe this will cause any issues.

 

That sounds right if its just slightly low.

But consider a couple of other questions about oil...

This pour point of -45c vs -42c for M1 5w30?

The mfg spec oil is not good enough?

HT0-06, whats that?

Here is an active thread mentioning HT0-06...
https://acurazine.com/forums/1g-rdx-2007-2012-147/fluids-flush-833208/


More filter size change info I found at vee-sixperformance.net(v 6 performance)...

Quote:

Honda oil filter observations...LONG
So my second oil change is coming up real soon and I’ve been researching Honda oil filters in my spare time, this is what I have found.
As you may or may not know, Honda has recently changed their part numbers and manufacturers for their main oil filter.
Let’s go over some background info first:
Oil filter suppliers:
Toyo-Roki – Japan
Nippon – For Japan only?
Filtech – USA
Honeywell – Canada
Toyo-Roki is affiliated with Filtech.
Honeywell does not specifically make oil filters, however, they do own Fram – who makes the current OE filter (For most Honda/Acura products in North America)
Part numbers:
The old part number for most Hondas was 15400-POH-305 (Filtech) ht=75mm dia=84mm. Also, 15400-PLC-004 (Nippon) ht=85mm 69mm.
They then switched over to part number 15400-PLM-A01 (Filtech) ht=75mm dia=84mm
When the S2000 was introduced, Honda released part number 15400-PCX-004 (Toyo-Roki) ht =75mm dia=84mm. (Insight uses a different oil filter as well but I think that is very specific to itself)
Currently the oil filter part number is 15400-PLM-A02 (Honeywell or Fram) ht=85mm dia=69mm. These new oil filters are considerably smaller than previous ones. Some say this helps with oil pressure, I am not certain myself.
On a side note, Filtech is now stamped on the side of the S2000 filter, same part number and size.
After reading many reviews and oil filter studies, I found Fram to be at the bottom almost all the time. Filtech and Toyo-Roki were very highly regarded.
Most people say that A02 is better than a regular off the shelf Fram, however, it still retains the things that make a Fram filter a Fram filter. Improved are the by-pass valve material and metal casing, not improved are the cardboard end caps and filter media.
This is Honda approved, so I am sure it would be OK to run, but at almost $9.00 at my dealer, I wanted something better. (I distinctly remember that A01 was cheaper but can’t find a receipt to prove it).
I found a Honda Service News article where it states that PCX-004 can be used anywhere PLM-A02 is specified.
Bottom of page2:
http://www.in.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SN/a040400.PDF
Other sources say the opposite, stating the by-pass valve is too stiff and could cause oil starvation at high RPMs; S2000 F20C1 and F22C1 has a higher oil pressure than other Hondas. I do know it takes 60 PSI to engage VTEC. Does anyone here have experience running this filter on their AV6?
After calling parts shops here and searching websites I found that Honda sites only offer A02 or 004. I then came across 15400-PLC-004/15400-PLM-A01a (The ‘a’ I think states the newer smaller size) on this website under NPN:
US: http://www.autopartsway.com/AutoPart...All~Oil+Filter
CAN: http://www.autopartsway.ca/AutoParts...All~Oil+Filter
These are made by Nippon Japan, I believe this oil filter lives on in Japan, or a derivative of it made by Toyo-Roki. I went ahead and ordered half a dozen to try out, I might cut one open as well.
It looks like Honda is offering a lower quality filter that just ‘does the job’ for more money (read: cost cutting) instead of bringing us something better from Japan. I personally wouldn’t run A02 for more than 4-5000 miles. The maintenance indicator when at 15% is usually on average past 6000 miles, based on my math; I change my oil at 30-40%.
If anyone else has more info or finds anything that I missed, feel free to let me know. Most of this I found doing research on various forums:

http://www.ridgelineownersclub.com/f...ead.php?t=1328
http://www.elementownersclub.com/for...t=12206&page=1
http://www.preludeonline.com/f28/inf...ilters-172058/
http://www.ntpog.org/reviews/filters/filters.shtml
http://people.msoe.edu/~yoderw/oilfi...lterstudy.html

So what do you guys think, what oil filters do you run? Anyone have experience with PCX-004 o PLC-004? Or do you Fram it before you slam it?

 

Let me fix that...

 

Well Pickler your original delimma was missing oil somewhere. If the filter is roughly the same size height and diameter then it has the roughly the same volume.
Source: [(22/7)r^2]h= volume

You prolly know this but some may not, oil has to trickle down to the oil pan to fill up so the dipstick will get the reading. Sometimes a cold-warm engine is slow to move the oil down. Too much hurts performance. On the 5th bottle I'm left with 1/3rd. Reads between upper and lower marks.

Btw I'd like to see a k23 with knife edging

 

Haha forgot to mention to find the differences of the 2 Dif volumes.

 

The engine's overhaul oil capacity is 5.8 lt (6.1 qt). Some of this oil cannot be drained on an oil change.

More importantly, the amount drained is determined by how long you let it drain. The refill figure of 4.7 lt (5 qt) is based on a brief drain, so it won't go over a nice, even 5 quarts. Drain it longer and you will get more.

I do an overnight drain until it actually stops dripping. Then I put 237 ml (8 oz) in the M1-110 filter and another 4.9 lt in the engine. Then I run the engine for leak check, and let it settle (as Kaze noted), and top it up. A total of 5.26 lt (5.56 qt) takes it right to the top hole (consistently over 15 oil changes now).

 

Thank you for that interesting info. I checked oil in cold, hot engine and levels were still below second hole. I have already seen easier cold starts in the morning with the thinner QS oil. You can also hear the difference too, where the starter works faster. This was on a cold windy rainy 39f morning where the car was parked outside.

Bingo, thought it would be around 6 quarts. My draining was long over an hour to get everything out. There was also a 1 degree slope to aid draining.

 

Quantity And Quality Are Important...

You can already see and hear the difference in cold starts?

Thats pretty cool.

But are you trading better protection on start-up for less protection under load?

Would you still use quaker state ultimate full synthetic if you knew it did not meet the spec required by the mfg?

HT0-06

So is HT0-06 spec'd oil better or just better tested?

 

These are non-OEM oils (list may not be fully inclusive) that carry the HTO-06 certification:

Pennzoil Ultra 5w30
Mobil 1 5w30
Mobil 1 Extended Protection 5w30

Of course, you can opt for the Acura RDX Ultimate at your local dealership.

There is a difference between a typical full synthetic and a full synthetic that meets/exceeds the HTO-06 specification. The product is designed to handle the demands of the turbocharged application. In the case of the Acura product, it is a blend of Group III and Group IV (PAO) synthetic base stocks and an enhanced additive package.

 

Quaker state ultimte is good oil, made by shell, had very good UOA with them. they are thinner than oem but have more moly counts. i usually use Pennzoil plat, but i find them too thick for winter use, hence why i use them in summer only. The best UOA i have had in the past few years were with castrol edge and penzoil platinum, Quaker State was also excellent although they do not last as long. Mobil1 were usually the worst in terms of BTN/moly count.

 

Why would you say that? a 5w30 oil will be within the spec of a 30 weight oil at operating temp. So why does it matter if its QSUD, PP, M1 as long as it has the HTO-06 Certification on it you're good to put it in the RDX's crankcase.

My RDX had M1 the first 10k, rest were on Pennzoil Platinum 5w30 with either a Wix or Bosch Premium filter. With 82K on it now no issues with the motor at all, soo clean under the valve cover, no leaks, and most importantly no turbo failure!

I stock up on oil when it goes on sale Pennzoil and Quaker State seem to go on sale a lot here and can be had for about 25 bucks with tax, I grab my bosch filters online which are about 5 bucks after taxes each which makes my oil change 30 bucks. 30 bucks is how much some pay for a regular Honda Civic oil change at the stealership or even a quick lube place

The RDX is still very cheap to maintain if you DIY and watch for sales of oils that meet the HTO-06 spec.

 

not a fan of honda's seal of approval on anything, specially since my warranty is over. i am for one convinced that honda's requirement of hto-06 oil is purely political & BS, their requirement for Z1 ATF is also BS. Lot of ppl here on acurazine complain of AT problems with 2nd gen TLs. Well i have a 2003 TL, first owner and i am still on original transmission. after 30,000km in 2005, i noticed rough shifting and replaced ATF with castrol multi-vehicle ATF. I recall that the manual called for Z1, but i did not paid much attention because i knew dexron 3 had similar chemical formulas with the exception different foaming properties. I remember my shifting improved immediately after the change, until recently when i changed it with DW-1 at my acura dealer. I still am on the original transmission with no major issues. Only reason why i replaced with DW-1 was because of its synthetic build which helps in winter time (dex3/Z1 is petroleum based).

as for engine oils i once ran sardin oil in my 1994 mitsubishi lancer GS when i was a student and too poor & stupid to buy oil. i remember my car had burned halfway through its oil after 15,000km of no oil change. i topped it off with fish oil. car ran fine until sold after 400,000km. of course i never did that sardin fish oil thing again, used bulk oil. GM did a test several years ago and found that even petro based engine oils could last 10,000km easily. The point is i never had an engine that fail on me, nor a transmission. I do oil changes whenever my rdx maint. minder asks me to, but for my TL min 9,000km on Penzoil platinum. Engine oils have advanced and improved so much in quality that a current petro based eng oil can outperform a synthetic one from 5 years ago.

I do not regret using quaker state ultimate, as i said it's just good oil. Normally I buy Pennzoil platinum, but it is too thick for winter use since my car is outside 24/7. And no, 5w-30 M1 is not the same as 5w-30 QSP. please have a look at their respective material safety data sheet. Look for viscosity index and viscosity at specific temperatures. This information is usually provided on their website.

I will do a UOA when im done with this oil. I also highly recommend castrol syntec 0w-30 for winter use, look for ones made in Germany. Canadian Tire will have a sale on them friday apparently.

As for my RDX maintainace issues here they are:

- $400 B16 Service
- $200 B12 Service
- $1400 Oil changes at acura dealer since april 2007
- $190 B1 Service
- $210 B2 Service
- $180 transmission and differential
- $1100 tires worn after 80,000km
- $170 Acura navigation dvd update
- $400 front brake change
- $0 radio making poping sounds on cold days, warranty covered
- $0 failed front wiper motors, covered
- $0 fogged up headlights, covered ($1000)
- rattling rear seats and driver window, havent fixed yet
plus 100,000km of premium gas with 12L/100km consumption rate.

^ that's why i have hard time believing its a 4-cylindar vehicle made by honda. not saying its a bad car, its fun to drive, but it's not something i would recommend to anyone. specially the 2007 model that i have, with no powered trunk, no power front passenger, no memory seats, no auto dim mirrors, useless backup camera and harsh ride. Still its a crossver for those that love sports cars, and i do like it but I rather have something from honda with less oomph but more luxury feel and features. just my opinion.

i know some of the costs could have been avoided, but i paid due to lack of time and for warranty's sake.

 

You bought a Honda/Acura vehicle, but you don't trust the engineering? The car and lubricants go hand-in-hand. While it is definitely not necessary to use OEM products, you really should concern yourself with meeting/exceeding the specifications. HTO-06 is a VERY special specification, even the regular Honda/Acura Full Synthetic 5w30 doesn't meet the classification - only the RDX Ultimate oil and for a very good reason.

I do hope that when you used Castrol Multi-Vehicle ATF, it was the Import version and not the Domestic version, there is a difference. While it will substitute for Z-1, it does not meet the necessary specifications for DW-1 replacement.

FYI, both Z-1 and DW-1 are petroleum based. The former is a Group II Conventional, the latter is a Group III Synthetic.

I will agree that today's oils are improved over those from even five years ago. However, the conventional products (Group I and/or Group II) are not so improved that they are better than synthetic products (Group III, IV and/or V) of even 15 years ago.

BTW, looking at PDS and/or MSDS documentation will only give you a peek at what's "under the hood". There is a BUNCH of information still missing. If you are using that to compare oils, it is like picking your date over the phone ... very one dimensional.

Factory specifications exist for a reason, they aren't a gimmick. You can purchase non-OEM, non-certified products that carry a "meets/exceeds" rating without being subject to royalties, etc. Of course, any warranty claim MIGHT revert to the manufacturer of the aftermarket lubricant, but that is easy enough to research as well.

 

^ yes it was import, and i still standby my statement Z1 & mobil 1 is unnecessary for acura vehicles. before DW-1 was arround, i had good results with castrol import and redline ATF. i like amsoil but its a bit expensive here for a flush, $12 a quart. what i meant by petro based was that it was non synthetic.

 

I understand that your car is outside 24/7, so you probably can't DIY, but this list demonstrates why I haven't been inside a dealer service dept in many years. Just the items listed add up to $2980, and it would appear those dealer oil changes probably run well over $100.

$400 dealership B16 Service:

A "B" service is an oil change followed by a basic inspection; measuring brake wear, checking ball joints and boots, exhaust hangers, fluid levels, etc. It's very little actual work -- mostly just looking at stuff to see if it's OK. The sub-services like tire rotation, filter replacement and rear diff, are simple jobs.

$60 DIY B16 Service:

$35 for HTO-06 oil and a good filter.
$24 for 3 quarts of rear diff fluid.
$1 for crush washers
$0.00 for inspection (done with greater care).

Throw in an engine and cabin filter (sub-service -2) and you still don't break $100.

 

Yea I'm not ever going to dealer again. Also BMW recommends 25,000km oil change interval with their German castrol. I change every 10,000km but it goes to show their trust in syntec.

 

Castrol Edge with Syntec Power Technology is a Group III Synthetic.

Castrol Multi-Vehicle ATF is a Group II/Group II+ conventional. It does NOT meet the DW-1 specification. It does meet the Z-1 specification.

The reason that Castrol Edge SPT can "go the distance" in a BMW ... sump capacity and additive package. The VI polymers in Castrol products are very durable, since they are helical rather than linear.

If you are happy, I am happy. You are driving and maintaining your car, not mine. I only wanted to point out the OEM specifications for the application.

 

ok i think there is a misunderstanding here, i never had an argument here or with you, but just a discussion. I appreciate your points. I will continue to maintain the RDX like every other car that i own or have owned. I have decided to use castrol syntec 0w-30 German for winter here. This oil is rated for 25,000km by BMW. have a look at the certifications for snytec:



am i concerned about the fact that it is missing honda's absurd hto certification? NO. if BMW, Porsche, VW and Mercedes Benz trust it, i do as well. acura owners can continue using honda certified coolant, ATF, engine oil and wheels, i have no problems with that. I will however use what I like and what makes sense, not the oil who's company is in business with honda.

 

Castrol does not have an oil that meets the HTO-06 specification, I promise.

You could buy a homegrown product that does ... Petro Canada's Supreme Synthetic 5w30.

I am NOT trying to get you to purchase a Honda/Acura product, although that wouldn't be a bad thing. You will see that earlier in the thread I proposed three different non-OEM oils that carry the correct certification as well. I just want to educate you on the correct specification for your vehicle.

Again, it is your vehicle. Just be aware that the wrong oil will cause problems with your turbocharger down the road.

 

i am sure no problems will be encountered with this oil, thanks.

 

I have downloaded a bulletin from our technical database. Please pay special attention to the part about Edge SPT 0w30 being developed for EUROPEAN vehicles. It does not comply with current API, ILSAC or JAMA standards. This bulletin was just released a couple of days ago to clear up misconceptions such as your own.

The closest Castrol product to the HTO-06 specification is Castrol Edge with Titanium FST 5w30. However, it is still not HTO-06 approved and it was not designed to meet/exceed that criteria.

 

If I was looking to buy a used RDX I would need to see the maint records. If the owner did not use the oil specd by the mfgr I would not consider buying.

You may find a buyer uninformed enough to buy your RDX in the event you decide to sell.

I do not know why you need to use non-spec oil. To save money? To say you know more than Honda engr?

Whatever reason, consider the effect of doing so.

Possible engine problems, lower return on investment...

 

I'm not following something here.

The Honda oil standard approves Mobil 1 (and others), and you refer to that as "political" and "absurd".

The BMW, Porsche, VW and Mercedes oil standards approve Castrol (and others), and you cite that as solid justification for using it.

By that measure, how are the German OEM's oil standards any less political or absurd?

 

...the op...

^You had a '99 FRC?

I prefer a ragtop with an M12 myself. Pretty stiff vert.

Was your FRC modded?

I have a friend at work who built an insane LS TT Syclone.

He perfects so many cars, never holding on to one for long.

Back on topic...

I wonder what the op's motivation for off-spec oil use is?

 

My head hits the roof in a coupe or a vert, and I like the FRC lines the best. The C5 is fun on a track, but too large for our twisty, hilly rural roads. A sport compact is better suited out here.

I also became disillusioned with the glaring GM design flaws; clutch bleed, leaking diff, and on and on and on....

I think temperature breakdown is the key to the HTO-06 requirement.

 

We have a winner. Acura RDX Ultimate is a full synthetic oil, made from a blend of Group III (hydrocarbon based) and Group IV (PAO) base stocks. In addition, the additive package is modified. These differences help the oil to resist oxidation and sludging PLUS they reduce ash deposits in the turbocharger.

It is important to adhere to the specification. Honda/Acura isn't the only manufacturer to choose from. HTO-06 oils are VERY easy to acquire ... almost any parts house or large department store will have at least one that meets the criteria.

 

Ours is d/d. Overall its has been great. Nothing like driving the nearby coastal or mountain roads with the top down. Like riding a street bike w/o a helmet.

Add to the flaw list...paper blocking rings (syncros) outdated headlights.

When I swapped in a new M12 I put in a remote bleeder that should have been o/e.

Now my a/c comp has failed. I have a new one I will inst this winter.

 

syntec 0w-30 german has excellent performance in all temperature ranges. -65f pour point and >200 flash point. mobil 1 5w-30 -42f pour point and >200f flash point.

source:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1434918

 

Pickler -

I am an OEM lubricant products specialist. I have been in the industry for 30 years. I am certified in PCMO (Passenger Car), HDEO (Heavy Duty Trucking) and General Aviation lubricants.

Over the years, I have had the pleasure of being responsible for the following OEM programs ... Ford, Honda/Acura, VW, Audi, BMW, Jaguar, Land Rover, Mazda and Volvo. During that time, I have endured TONS of training on the specific attributes of unique criteria for some of these specialized vehicles.

I am going to tell you once more that your turbocharger is going to be VERY unhappy with you. Castrol does not make an oil that meets/exceeds the HTO-06 specification.

If you want to see what happens when a turbocharger turns additives into ash deposits ... put it into the engine and run it. Otherwise, pick an oil that is appropriate. There are plenty of certified options and even more that meet/exceed the specification without the HTO-06 testing behind them.

Jim -

 

my dealer oil for the 135i is castrol syntec 0w-30 that you criticize above, 135i is a twin scroll turbocharged engine. no problems so far after 35,000km.