97BlackAckCL

iTrader: (6)

gnuts

iTrader: (1)

hasn't the block been sleeved already?

I love what you're doing but i feel like you have to make a choice and stick with it or you'll never drive the car again.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

No sleeving on the block has been done and if you go back a few pages, you'll see that I decided against doing this as the stock block will hold 20lbs of boost and I'll only be running 15lbs at most. As far as sticking to a plan, that hasn't changed. Only the parts in it. Why not upgrade the parts if the opportunity allows?

gnuts

iTrader: (1)

maybe i'm just dying to hear this thing rip down the road.

Marcelechka

+1

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, I can relate to this.

I have been more patient with this car than almost anything in my lifetime. I've definitely utilized my time wisely during all of this. Can't wait to put this engine and knowledge to work. I've spent the last 6 months building engines for everyone else while mine sits here waiting so patiently. It's ok though, I feel more "equipped" now than I did 6 months ago to tune the shit out of the car and keep this rev happy motor together while putting some good numbers down.

HickamHatch

Heats up real good. Thanks!

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Yeah.....so it's been a while since I've came here and updated the thread. Just because I haven't been active much here doesn't mean I'm not active with the j-series crowd so back up a little bit!

What's been going on with me? Well, I'd like to say that I've successfully built and installed that demented 2.7 liter engine I last spoke about but.....no, I haven't. In all actuality, I've been non stop busy. Some of you may remember I opened up a business roughly 14 months ago and things got even MORE hectic in my life. I've been so busy with everyone else's cars that I've had to lay down my own personal plans for a while.

Anyhow, like I mentioned, the 2.7 liter was never completed though the plans and intentions are still very real. I've had to budget my play money better for the well being of my family and business. I ended up purchasing a few brand new Honda 3.5 short blocks for real cheap and decided on using one for myself to get the Accord back in motion again. Its nothing fancy by any means but that's ok. Here's a small list of what I've got in it:

J35z3 short block with 10.0:1 compression
J37a4 70psi capable oil pump
J37a1 high flow water pump
J35y head gaskets
J35z3 cooling spacers
ARP head studs
J37a4 heads and cams (intake/exhaust VTEC)
Pistons, chambers and valves- ceramic coated
Remote filter adapter w/oil thermostat out to cooler


The engine will be tuned by myself. Have plans on getting this thing in within 1 month. Just figured I'd chime in and stir the pot a little. Until next time...

fsttyms1

i want to see a 2.7 rpm screamer

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

^ go look at TB Motorworkx 11k+ screamer 9.99sec car

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Me too buddy. Me too.

Those guys build the nastiest sounding J's I've ever heard. Spinning those engines 10k+ makes it easy to believe in 400hp+ NA V6's. They contribute quite a bit to the j-series market and though they're pricey, they back their sh*t up with numbers that nobody else can match.

fsttyms1

Im contemplating trying a set of their cams

flexer

Sucks there is no before and after dyno sheets with tuning. If I was someone I would offer them to do a before and after dyno of the cams, both being tuned, and give them the results. While that might not be worth getting the cams for free it should get them discounted. Companies all the time offer cams but when asked for the results before spending the money they say: " We have no results except on our built motors which are 15:1 compression, or we just don't have any results, our cams are based entirely on what we THINK should work and make power, but still expect you to pay top dollar for them."

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Well let me know if there's anything I can do to help in the decision making process.

I understand what you're saying and agree but you have to look at it all from their perspective. Camshafts are such a dynamic component of an engine that it would be of a hinderance to define it by X or Y. Ignorance (and imagination) in their product plays a vital role in sales & marketing. Especially when "Jimmy" thinks he can shove a cam in his stock d-series Civic and net another 40bhp.

How's that conversion coming along?

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Engine comes together this weekend. Hopefully it will be completed and then loaded up and taken back to my shop where the Accord is enabling me to begin work as early as Monday. We will see.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Almost....






Lovin' that j37a4 goodness.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Hey Robert, how are you? Growing weary of the TL forums so I thought I'd check things out here instead.

After taking a bit of a break and it becoming cold as hell up here, I moved all my engine stuff into the basement and started working on the rebuild again.

I'm still trying to get the technique of using micrometers but I used plastigage on my new block and existing crank on all 4 mains and one rod.

I got the same .0015" clearance on the mains and .001" on the first rod journal using new Pauter rods.

If you use .001" for every 1" of journal size, you should have .0028" of main bearing clearance? I suspected that .0015" was too tight for FI so I ordered some additional bearings shooting for .0018-.002" on the mains and .0015" on the rods. Does that sound reasonable?

I got a set of Wiseco 6568M89's and the clearances are .003" in the new block which is a little fat of the .0025" spec that Wiseco gives but I'm ok with that.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Before answering your questions, can you give me more info about the build, target power and the application? I know you've probably done this a few times but its tough to remember my children's birthdays as it is....and sometimes my own.

*****UPDATE*****

While things are moving slower than I anticipated on the Accord here in the 'expectantly slow' (at the shop) season of Fall, they are at least moving. However business has been good so I won't complain. Thankfully I have the powertrain at the house which enables progress on the weeknights and weekends when the kids venture off to bed.

Today, I managed to get the transmission setup for prep work. I'll be giving it some cosmetic attention while it's out and separated from the engine. Not really sure why but I've been thinking about doing it in under carriage coating which is somewhat like truck bed spray liner in a way. So I went out and bought some 3M products to make this happen. Trust me, it will look perfect!

I also painted the original j37a4 valve covers and a modded j35a8 oil pan a beautiful charcoal metallic gray.

While at a local salvage yard a few days ago, I took some bolt-to-bolt measurements on a subframe from an 08 TLS and will check the Accords subframe carriage bolts sometime early this week. It would be nice to save some weight on the car but I won't cry if its not a match. Besides, weight on the front of this car may be a good thing.

I'll take some pics of the engine and trans ASAP for you guys.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

2006 Acura TL 6MT

engine - j32a3 (new block)
pistons - wiseco 6586m89 (~9:1? C/R)
stock heads w/kms springs or potentially ported w/kms springs
ID1000 injectors
Pauter J32 rods
straight cut 3/4 gears
Hondata FP
J&R Turbo kit
All new OEM crank and rod bearings
Stock crank
Aeromotive fuel pump (don't recall the lph at the moment) with return setup and aeromotive fpr.
p2r fuel rails.

Target HP ........ not sure. At least 425hp but with these internals and a good tune.......500hp?

UTAH TSX

Thanks for all of the info in this thread, please keep us updated, subscibed

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Got the engine mounted up on a stand a few nights ago. This enabled me to swap out the oil pressure relief valve in the oil pump to handle the added volume requirements from the exhaust/intake VTEC demands. There's a total of six cam lobes per cylinder (opposed to the previous 5 lobe system) now along with an entire added channel in the exhaust rocker shaft to feed the 12 exhaust rocker lock pins during VTEC engagement. This involved swapping out the relief valve itself, tension spring, and the lock nut. The relief valve acts something like a wastegate in a turbo system by allowing the oil pressure to build to a certain level then vent the remaining pressure which is a simple bypass from the supply. The stock j35z3 oil pump from the 08+ Accord 3.5 uses a higher pressure of 70psi @ 3000rpm's (the j37a2/4 is 40psi @ 3000 rpm's) but a much lower volume than what is needed to adequately supply the j37 heads.

Also got the valve covers and the oil pan painted but deterred from my original path of matching colors for all three. Instead, I did the valve covers in the charcoal gray and the oil pan in a gloss black brake caliper paint for added durability and chemical resistance...specifically oil. Though I didn't want to black anywhere, I knew that the caliper paint would hold up best for the application.

As for assembly, I've got nearly everything put on except the crank pulley and upper timing covers. Here is what the motor looks like as it currently sits.







This last shot of the original j35z3 oil pan shows why I used one from the j35a8 instead. Honda moved the crank sensor to here where it faces a higher tooth count reluctor ring for more accurate control over spark and fuel. Unfortunately I'm using the j35a8 ECM so the "higher resolution" ring doesn't do any good for me. Maybe Hondata will, in the near future, decide to hack the j35z ECM's....so I'll hold onto the pan and leave the ring installed for now.

brad2274

still the best engine build for a 6ga i've ever seen, can't wait to see it run.
What're your plans for the exterior of the car?

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Once the motor and dash swap are complete, I don't really have any plans elsewhere. Honestly, I truly enjoy just building badass motors and surprising people on the street in an everyday, ordinary Honda. The conversations this car has brought is probably one of the best rewards I could ask. I've hung with cars that have beat bikes and won against others that I knew would murder me. Those moments are the ones that push me to keep this little grocery getter on the road, lol.

Btw, your 6g doesn't look too damn bad either.

HickamHatch

i NEVER GOT THOSE GASKETS!

Big Ak

It is pretty amazing the amount of time and research that you are putting in. It is nice to see all the progress you are making on your build. The amount of thought that you are putting into it to ensure longevity and ease of use is amazing.

But what happened to the motor that was in the Accord prior to z3 build? Did you ever get it finished and start rolling around in that til this one is complete?

Keep up the solid work. Gets me to looking at my J32a2 and start thinking of a build everytime I check your progress.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Read your PMs man.

Btw, what happened to your build thread on HT?

Its funny that you are pretty much the only one that's caught this and asked about it. A local friend of mine runs a 4g TL 3.7 and maybe a week before finishing the motor, I observed a very unusual failure on his car after one cylinder leaned out while spraying. The heat that resulted from leaning out caused the HEAVY scoring between the pistons and cylinder walls which are both made from aluminum. After seeing how vulnerable the 3.7 blocks were to being damaged from heat, I decided it was best not to use the engine for boost. That's when I decided I'd locate another motor with iron bores (j35z) and sell the 3.7 to aid in funding.

I put maybe 20-30 miles on it total before pulling it back out again. It was very unfortunate because the engine felt strong but it was better safe than sorry.

*****UPDATE*****

Ran into the smallest (and stupidest) little snag the other night when bolting on the j35a8 oil pan on this j35z block. Out of the 14 or so bolts for the oil pan, 2 of the holes were like 1-2mm from lining up and so they will need to be slightly enlarged/offset to make things work. Just in case anyone wants to know for future reference, it's the two mounting holes closest to the rear main near the bell housing. Here's a what I'm talking about:





Other than that ^^^ problem, there's one more I expect to encounter which the exhaust ports on the heads. The newer j35z (all later model blocks as well) have a much smaller port outlet than previous design. I believe the 07-09 MDX 3.7 (RYE castings) were the last heads made with the same exhaust port shape/size as the j32a3 & j35a8 engines. Not only this, the later model exhaust flanges have a different bolt pattern as well. Though two of the four holes will still match up, the ports between the two heads do not match up on roughly 50-60% of the entire port area. The newer style heads seem to be a tad bit wider but definitely much shorter in overall height. Though the pictures below show the j37a4 (RKG castings), the j35z (RYE) castings are the exact same. Honda seems to have elongated both the exhaust and the intake ports on these heads. I can assume they had numerous reasons for doing this but I'd say the biggest would be to support the tumble port design. They have also additional water jacket area around the exhaust ports which is not necessarily a good thing for anyone that plans on using this style head for turbo setups as the increased cooling takes heat away from the turbo by cooling the exhaust gases.

Because my turbo manifolds were made for the earlier j35a8 heads, they must be modified with the j35z flanges in order for them to be used. So I'll be sending some of the newer style exhaust gaskets to Hickam so he can make a set of flanges. Then once they are complete, I will have to supply him with a block and heads (with the same style flanges) so he can use the setup as a jig when modifying the manifolds.

I snapped a few shots of the ports to better illustrate the issue here:

Top j35z
Bottom j35a8


Then another of a j35a8 gasket against the j35z head

Big Ak

Not sure if you can answer this with the switch back to the J35Z3 block but would sleeving (wet or dry) have helped with protecting the 37 from heat damage? I am not sure wet sleeving has ever been done on a J series. I know that wet sleeving would require alot of mods to the block and probably be alot of cash, but if you are going all out would this even be a consideration to run the higher boost that you want? Dry sleeves protect the block from damage so they can be rebuilt without going larger on pistons but maybe not from heat as I recall, so maybe neither is valid. I remember you mentioning you were looking at sleeving but can't remember which motor and recall you would have some expense in doing it. Is this something you might look at for the the Z3 for an extra layer of protection?

Was possible looking at a 37 swap if my 32A2 ever dies, and just wondering your thoughts on this. Thanks again for all your research into these motors.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Yeah, definitely so. But wet sleeving is expensive and absolutely has to be done with extreme accuracy and precision. I knew that I'd never be going above 15lbs of boost due a complete loss of traction above those power levels so investing that much money into the block would've been redundant as the stock blocks can hold 15lbs with ease....given the tune is there of course. Dry sleeving can be be done as well but these I've heard can drop in the bore due to having no bracing from above like Dartons MID sleeves for example. Until I see a iron bore j-series bust or crack a sleeve under moderate boost with a detonation free tune on it, I'm content with running the blocks as they are. Anyone that's considering higher than 15lbs should definitely consider wet sleeving their block for sure.

If you decide on running a 3.7, you will love it. The torque they produce along with the volume of air they move makes them fun to drive. Don't rev them any higher than stock redline and you'll be fine.

UTAH TSX

What would the max PSI you would boost a stock J35A8 ( we have big injectors and fuel pump with a good sized intercooler so air temps should be under controll ) on pee water 91 octane, we will be ready to tune around christmas, we are having Vit do the tuning.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

I ran my stock j35a8 at 10lbs for a while on 93 with zero detonation. I noticed when I bumped up to 12lbs of boost, that's when I had to supplement with meth/water injection to combat the minimal knock some cylinders began to have. Then, I made another move from12lbs to 15lbs and off of the meth/water, cylinder knock counts would rocket. Mind you, I'm not exactly a seasoned tuner and was just learning FlashPro at the time which is a considerable factor here.

Without a meth/water injection and running premium, 10lbs is a good place to be...or at least start. If you have Vit tuning your setup, you're in more than capable hands. He will tune your motor at a given boost level. I'm sure you could request him to help you find a safe zone for boost if you want to go above 10lbs. Be prepared for a LOT of datalogging regardless.


****UPDATE****


Oil pan bolted on.


Upper timing covers, six 1000cc Injector Dynamics injectors and OBX fuel rails installed.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Came across this short clip yesterday on my computer and figured I'd post it up on youtube for some entertainment. Despite what the title reads, it was recorded when the j35a8 was still installed and running 10lbs of boost. The car behind me is my 2010 MDX on a 75hp shot of nitrous.

UTAH TSX

Nice, MDX didn't stand a chance

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

so can i use a j35a8 head on a j35z3 and swap it into a 06 accord? seems like a better option than a j35a5 and hopefully pass smog/ inspection.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Regardless of the fact that the MDX was driven by my wife and I had the advantage of the unexpected jump, that heavy pig had no chance even with a 150 shot.

Yes, but do realize your compression will be reduced to 10:1 by using the j35z3. Unless you're wanting lowered compression for forced induction reasons, I'd reconsider your option on which motor to use as a full point in CR is worth 15-20hp easy.

IMO the you should source a complete j35a8 motor and use this instead as they can be found for pretty cheap nowadays. I seen a few recently that are around $500.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

^motor not the problem with the j35a8, its getting my tranney to mate with it or finding a tls one for the lsd. i found a j35z3 short block for 500. does the j35z3 use the same tranney bolt pattern as the j32a3 or j35a8?

also i need a motor that 06,or newer if i ever decide to come back to california.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Responded to your PM.

For the record, the j35a8 and the j35z3 have the same bolt pattern of which is not the same as the j32a3.

fsttyms1

J32 cam gears



AD Engineering J32 Adjustable Cam Gears - My Site

03 tls nc

iTrader: (6)

That's awesome! Glad to see someone dropped a little coin and made a set of adjustable cam gears.

fsttyms1

There is an option now for both auto and manual. guess they work with the 4 pickup like ours and the single like the newer ones too

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Cam gears are cool but LONG overdue IMO. Wished those had been around years ago. Great find, they shouldn't have any problems selling those things.


Update while I'm here:

Unloaded my freshly painted (or should I say 'undercoated') transmission today at the shop. Now that both the engine and transmission are ready to be married and fully installed, things should be kickin' off very soon. I have a few small things to do such as adding some heat shield to the firewall area and also setting up the oil cooler system but beyond that, she's ready. The Accord will be back on the road soon....