vill0169

iTrader: (4)

check out the Road Atlanta thread I have in the Photo gallery. Sound isn't great but it's better than nothing.

Inaccurate

I like the looks of it. I would be tempted to go this route if I didn't need the cruise control, horn, blinker (?).

Your wheel is

vill0169

iTrader: (4)

blinker and wiper controls are unaffected by any new steering wheel. The horn is converted over so that would be fine. I'd like to see if you could convert the cruise controls to one from like an RSX or something that you could mount to a aftermarket wheel and keep it working. Not sure about the audio controls though.

Inaccurate

The Reel was removed to mount the aftermarket steering wheel, right? Doesn't the cruise control switches operate thru the Reel?

Radio Control??? What radio? I have my ipod with earbuds

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

i hope you have the shuffle and nothing bigger LOL

vill0169

iTrader: (4)

I removed the reel thing but I don't think you "have" to.

vill0169

iTrader: (4)

Well said "what the hell" and took out the wiper assembly today. Figured I'll throw it in the truck when at the track and if it looks like rain it's nothing to put it back on and run with it back on. Everything all together is 10 lbs so new weight is right at 2690lbs!

Track day is a week out so gotta get all this crap done this weekend so I'm prepped to head out next Friday for Road Atlanta.

quick pic-

HQTL6SPD

any updates on that rear diffuser?

vill0169

iTrader: (4)

Umm... Kinda put it on hold for this track day in order to get the new steering wheel done and a few other things done in time. I have a pretty big break coming up so that should a good time to get that thing moving along. I certainly need it!

vill0169

iTrader: (4)

found and got rid of some uselessness today on the car, only like a pound or two but can never get two simplified lol

Got the horns, alarm beeper, fender foam crap and some sound deadening out.




Getting to the point now where it's getting pretty damn tough to find needless weight on this car! If you see any, please point it out! lol

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

how much do you weigh LOL

vill0169

iTrader: (4)

haha enough lol


Working on cars all weekend in the FL summer is taking care of that!

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

sweeet....

lemme know about the rear diffuser...i was looking to custom fab one as well but not too sure....so let me know which way you go....

vill0169

iTrader: (4)

Yeah it's definitely the priority after this weekend so I'll keep you posted. I'm even toying with the idea of closing off the stock exhaust openings in the bumper to make the rear half of the car as absolutely drag free as possible.

HQTL6SPD

You should fab an exhaust that comes out of the sideskirts, I think it would compliment your theme very nicely. Kinda like the SLR, except the outlets should be in front of the rear wheels.

vill0169

iTrader: (4)

not a bad idea but the underside layout/construction on the TL wouldn't make keeping any sort of ground clearance very easy to do.

Not a huge deal for me on track, but getting the car on and off the trailer is already a chore.


I actually just sorta finished the exhaust up last night, I ordered a 90 degree mandrel turn down so now the exhaust won't effect the underbody panel I made to reduce drag underneath the car. Pics to come on this.

vill0169

iTrader: (4)

Ok the drag reducing underbody panel is about 99% done. The whole point behind this is to cut down on the places underneath the car where air can become "trapped", create high pressure, and reduce the down force effects on the rest of the are. So hopefully, this and a few other things underneath the car will reduce drag, allow more downforce to be created, raise my top speed on straights, and eventually limit the actual amount of air flowing under the car.

This panel is covers the full width of the car between the rear jack points. In stock form, the car has the mid-muffler, evap canister, and two flimsy plastic panels to protect the canister and somewhat of a void on the other side. Removing these things leaves a rather large area where air flowing under the car can start to build up and create high pressure that is effectively lifting the car off the road. So it's definitely worth a little time to make this area as closed off as possible to air.

Kinda hard to get all this in a pic without the car on a lift but hopefully you get the idea. It's just a piece of plywood for now. If the results are favorable, I'll probably replace is with a piece of lexan or something lighter but for now it's fine.




It is damn near perfectly level with the rest of the under side of the car so ground clearance is still good and hopefully the air will just keep on going back to the diffuser I have in the works right now.



Can also see the exhaust turn down I put on last night, takes the exhaust gases down away from the panel. I also painted the panel with a high temp grill paint just to be sure I don't have a Top Gear plywood diffuser on my hands lol



Can see the relief cut for the fuel lines and the bit of the panel that goes up the exhaust tunnel


Kinda what it looked like before. Can definitely see the "hole" up there and the need to get that closed off!

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ how much that plywood weigh ? was that area covered by stock rubber covers before ?

I am getting a custom true dual and spoke to my guy to fab up something similar but i chickened out and the muffler placement would have been an issue....besides I would hate the rear bumper to have cutouts and no tips LOL....

vill0169

iTrader: (4)

Plywood wasn't much in weight, plus it can't get much lower on the car so I'm not worried about it.


Yeah if the car wasn't designed to have side exit exhaust it's pretty hard to make it work. I'm almost definitely going to fill in the rear tip openings cuz I don't like the way it looks either.

HQTL6SPD

^I guess the only way it would be possible is to use oval piping, which i'm sure is expensive and probably not worth it.

btw, where did you mount those bolts to?

Having to locate all that is what me scrap the project. Especially since i don't have access to lift... I had a thick cardboard box from a treadmill i was ready to wrap in fiberglass and epoxy lol

vill0169

iTrader: (4)

Are you asking about the bolts that hold up the panel? Some used the same points as the stock stuff and some are little brackets I made for it.


Wait, what were you gonna do with a cardboard box and fiberglass? lol

Afgkid11

Wow man, nice work. I am gutting my car too. It's a 06 acura tl auto but soon a Manuel swap . I absolutely love the TL

HQTL6SPD

yea but it was strong cardboard (about 1/3"), it had to be, there was a treadmill in that box! lol

oarichard

iTrader: (3)

On the first and second picture, do you plan on keeping the exhaust cutout heading downwards like that? Won't that area heat up and possibly damage parts under the car?

vill0169

iTrader: (4)

No it will be fine. The panel was painted with high temp paint and I'll be under the car a fair amount at the track so I will keep tabs on it. Heck at the last track day I ran with it like it is in the last picture, No panel or turn down and the bottom of the car wasn't even dirty. Just goes to show how much air is flowing underneath the car.

oarichard

iTrader: (3)

That's a pretty cool idea. I'm sure it's hella loud tho..

vill0169

iTrader: (4)

it's not that bad at all actually. Has a very nice G35/350Z like pitch and tone to it which I really like. Maybe I'll shoot a vid of it if I get a chance

oarichard

iTrader: (3)

Whats your whole exhaust setup like?

vill0169

iTrader: (4)

PCD's, J Pipe, a Magnaflow 5x8 and a Magnaflow 4x14. Pretty sure the resonator type muffler isn't doing much but I just had that at first and it was still way to obnoxious so I added the larger one and it evened everything out.

vill0169

iTrader: (4)

Road Atlanta pics and vids are up in the Photo gallery for those interested in seeing the Elegant Aggressor in action

OneWickedTypeS

Ok, I'm just asking have you actually looked into doing this swap?
To my little bit of knowledge and I could totally be off but I don't think it has been done. But G/L with your endeavors....

OneWickedTypeS

Oh and this thread totally rocks, I think the only thing that could make this better would be if it was a Type-S...

vill0169

iTrader: (4)

Ok guys I'm actually going to open up to some ideas that I need some outside input on.

Topic #1: My Rear Brakes.
I am having a weird issue with my rear brakes and I can't seem to figure out. My brakes currently are basically stock. Just blank rotors with ceramic pads so nothing really special. The problem I'm having is that they seem to drag and are locking up REALLY easily while I'm on track. I replaced the calipers thinking they had just started to seize from old age but now after this last track day they appear to having the same issue. This makes braking kinda tricky because in order to keep the rears from starting to lock up, I have to really modulate the brakes and in doing so it's not using the front brakes with race pads up to their full potential. Anybody got any ideas on why this may be happening?

Note - VSA is always off and I don't have functioning ABS right now either.


Topic #2: Power

I have full bolt ons right now so - CAI, PCD's, V2 J Pipe, My custom exhaust, MDX spacer, underdrive pulley, etc.

I'm pretty satisfied with the power but obviously a bit more mid range torque and top end power would not be a bad thing. I'm taking some time off from the track for a couple months so I'm considering looking for some new engine mods to install before going back. I've always been an N/A guy so naturally I'm thinking about doing a cam upgrade and I can do this at no weight penalty unlike a 90lbs supercharger. The Type S cams are a good value but not sure if the gains would be that substantial. The Bisi regrinds would be much more aggressive than the Type S cams but without good tuning and probably some further mods such as valvetrain and even some port n polish work, I'm not sure they're the safest choice nor the best suited at the moment.

So, wise guys of AZ, if you have any actual experience in these areas, do shed some light!

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

It may be that your rear pads are too aggressive for heavy use where the weight of the car is shifted away from the rear tires. I have heard from members with upgraded rear disks and pads that rear has a tendency to lock up. Another idea is that disconnecting the abs messed with the electronic brake bias.


As far as performance it sounds like you are extracting as much out of a NA setup as possable without going to expensive low power yielding options to squeeze the last bits of power from the car. Pnp and cams fall into this category, smaller diameter lightweight wheels and tires are another option.

I'm a FI guy so my feeling is the extra power far outweighs the increase in weight. When I went from SC to the turbo I had to readjust the parking ball I use to make sure I'm parked right in the garage because the ride height of the front came up with the lighter turbo in there.

vill0169

iTrader: (4)

Yeah the ABS system did sorta "break" while at the track last time but I do like not having it because before it was way too invasive and I think held the car's braking back more than helped it. Is there any diagnostic test for the ABS system to see what caused it to stop working?

Inaccurate

Regarding the rubbing brakes. Notice item #6 below where the service manual mentions the VSA Modulator needing replacing. It might be possible that both of your problems (rubbing brakes and rear lockup) is from the same cause..... that being your VSA is not operational.

Regarding the rear bias lockup - This is for sure because your VSA is broken. Our TL has NO mechanical brake proportioning valve like older cars. It is the sole responsibility of the VSA unit to electronically adjust the brake bias between front and rear. Please see the service manual posted below in the section called "Electronic Brake Distrubution (EBD)".

OPTIONAL READING - I have always known about the Brake Assist (see explanation in manual posted below) of the TL since I purchased the TL in 2006. For many years I was afraid that I would accidentally activate the Brake Assist unintentionally. That is a scary thought thinking that your car can decide to apply FULL BRAKES whenever it decides that it wants to.

For the past few years however, with my lightweight car, I have flung that poor car around like a wet doll. Wot, get into the brakes hard, wot, swerve left, swerve right, slam on the brakes. I just have a good ol' time with my car. I often wonder if I had engaged the Brake Assist feature "was that the brake assist or not ".

Two weeks ago, I found my answer. The answer is that I have never activated the Brake Assist until two weeks ago since I have owned my car in 2006. Acura put a lot of thought into that feature. It is NOT easily activated by any means.

I had gotten myself into a situation. I was wot and going 60 or 70 MPH (still wot). I had no escape route on the left or right hand sides. There was a car in front of me doing 0 MPH (at a complete stop). When I realized my situation, the first thought in my mind was "this is it.... the crash that I have been dreading for years is about to happen."

As quickly as my instinctive reactions could, I hit the brakes to avoid rear-ending the car in front of me (closing distance was fearful). My next thought was to say a quick prayer as I slammed the brakes with true fear.

Immediately, I felt the brake pedal fall (give away) what seemed to be an inch. You would think that my heart would had sunk after feeling the brake pedal giving away under my foot. By the way, this was not the usual pedal pulsating from ABS. Remember, that I am a ABS abuser and I know what ABS feels like. This was a completely different feeling in the pedal.

At this point, all I could think was to have complete faith in god and in my car. Neither god nor my car let me down. The reason that the pedal gave away under my foot was because the Brake Assist feature took over control of the brakes. IT WAS AWESOME. Regular ABS activation can't hold a candle to the Brake Assist feature. The computer placed all FOUR wheels into full ABS mode at the same time. Normally with ABS, only one or two wheels will be modulating. But, the Brake Assist put all four wheels into modulation at the same split second and it stayed that way until I let off of the pedal. It was truly unbelievable how quickly I stopped. I didn't even get close to the car in front of me.

I don't know if I should give credit to MY prayers or to the prayers of the person in front of me. I would think that they could hear me wot behind them and see me in their mirror and see the fearful closing distance.

Inaccurate

Elegant Aggressor,

Have you deleted the HID headlights and ballasts yet? In other makes of cars, they weigh approx 10 lbs each.


------------------------------------------------
Inaccurate - Home of the original "TL Diet"




.

I hate cars

I like the direction of this thread. Inacc, I experienced the same thing, pedal sinking and all. I posted about it a while back when some girl pulled out in front of me at 55mph. It looks like the pedal becomes an on/off switch during an panic stop. I've also used the ABS a lot and it's a totally different feeling.

So it looks like line pressure is evenly split during easy braking. I assume there's still a front bias due to the larger front rotors and piston(s). It looks like it waits until the rears start to lock before it reduces further pressure to the rears which I like. And it looks like it can adjust during the stop too. One issue I always wondered about is if you are trail braking and one of the rears get light and try to prematurely lock. Does this mean it reduces pressure to the outer tire also, hurting braking? I can say for a fact that when trail braking especially with the large front swaybar, when the inside front wants to lock, it reduces brake pressure to all 4 tires and it feels like there's just nothing there. I've almost wrecked the car during a slightly aggressive turn into a parking lot because the ECU just cut off pressure to the brakes. It requires letting completely off and reapplying the brakes. One of my issues that I've never been able to solve is how does the ECU know if the car is loaded? I've never located a sensor like some trucks have. Does it do this purely based on wheel speed sensor info?

Some of my experience with the system is contradictory to the manual and some of it fits perfectly. I've had the same issue with a 944 Porsche. I was young, had a new girl in the car and I went to parallel park the car using the e-brake..... I spun it perfectly then went to apply the regular brakes to use the fronts to stop it in the right spot just as I had before but that particular time I got nothing but ABS and no braking and kissed the curb. The TL seems to be the same way, it will sometimes kill all braking power if one tire breaks free. Sometimes it doesn't but it's not very confidence inspiring being that inconsistent.

I think the absolute biggest concern is the maximum wheel deceleration rate allowed. You throw sticky tires on, lighten the car, stiffen the suspension and the car has the potential to decelerate 25% quicker. Will the stock ABS programming allow the wheels to decelerate 25% quicker or will ABS prematurely kick in? My experience has been ABS kicks in very prematurely once you increase grip. Or a different way of saying it is the ABS kicks in at the same deceleration rate as with the stock tires and suspension. Are we stuck with stock like braking performance?

If we can find the answer to that question, maybe we can manipulate the stock system such as altering the reluctor rings assuming they're not compared to the VSS. I'm sure it would have quite an effect on the other systems like VSA and TC but it might be very worthwhile for the track guys.

vill0169

iTrader: (4)

Wow guys thanks for the great work! Of course it does suck that the VSA modulator might be to blame for this being it's ridiculous expensive for that one part.

So being the VSA is so expensive to replace, would it be worth looking into basically ditching the system all together and trying to fab up a full manual proportioning valve system? Like I said, I like not having the ABS because it was just too invasive before and I'd much rather have control of brake bias myself. I really don't know anything about them and how/if the ecu would approve or not but I figure I'd throw it out there.


Oh and I look into the ballasts as well. I still have them but never knew they weighed that much. What do I need headlights for?! lol

vill0169

iTrader: (4)

After thinking about this for a bit maybe the best of both worlds would be to get the VSA fixed so I have the EBD back but then disable the ABS so I can hopefully regain some better braking and modulation.

How's that sound? I assume replacing the VSA modulator is pretty much just swapping it out and then the biggest brake fluid swap/bleed I've ever done?