boe_d

I didn't think this brand would ever come to mind for people in this forum but the Buick Avista looks to be what some people on this forum seem to be looking for in many ways. Makes me think this is the car they would use if they remade Bullitt.

silverTL6

iTrader: (2)

It wasn't this...was it?

wlkeel

You may be right - 400 hp, RWD, stylish, luxurious, and most importantly EXPOSED TAILPIPES .

Seriously though, it really looks like a great concept.

SeismicGuy

SILVERTL6---Not exactly. The model I saw was actually a bit nicer. For one thing the hood wasn't totally smooth--there were some soft creases just inside the fender lines. Also, the grill was different--no bar and shaped like the one in the link I provided. The sides were also less smooth and had soft front-to-back crease. What I saw in person was definitely better looking than what I see in your photo. Also, pricing was discussed as part of the configuration discussion and I recall that all of the questions assumed pricing generally in the $43K to $45K range with an upper bound maybe being in the $47K to $52K range.

boe_d

I don't think the MMC will be enough - too little - too late. It is just my opinion but if they are remotely close they should start with the SeismicGuy model ASAP. I migrate networks for a living and I frequently tell customers they'd be better off starting from scratch if I don't see enough good foundation in their current environment. Same as I do on home repairs in my spare time. When I redid my girlfriends bathroom - I tore out EVERYTHING even the backer board. I redid the electrical, toilet, bathtub, floor tiling cabinet, sink lighting - not because I enjoy giving up my free time but because it was the right way to solve the problems. If slapping a new grill on the current model was all it took I'd say so but I don't think so. If they made the current model in 2009 I'd say an MMC with a new grill would be fine but this car really doesn't have enough of a foundation to salvage other than the Acura reputation which is going down in the sedan market faster than a girl with daddy issues and a lack of self confidence on prom night.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

the problem is; Acura thinks it's okay to put out mediocre products.

Has been this way for almost 15 years.
that is half my life!
and an eternity in car years

boe_d

I don't necessarily think it is the fault of all of Acura at least not the engineers at Acura/Honda - I think it is the management at Acura. First for picking the designer of the 4G TL but also for not listening to their customers when they came with torches and pitchforks. Sure some fanboys still bought the 4G but even they are disappearing from this forum - fool me once... I think the top management keeps themselves insulated from feedback. A case of the emperor's new clothes. Basically the TLX should have been the MMC for the TL due to sales and the TLX should be replaced immediately - IMHO. Sure I realize it takes a few years for a car to be developed but Acura had to know the jig was up pretty early on with the TLX. Don't want to give up on the TLX - fine just keep making them like the infamous RLX and the ILX and release ONE good sedan make it the GLX (Good LX).

I blame the marketing and sales department too. Gathering info that tells them nothing.
Would you buy an Acura again?
a) I would definitely buy one again
b) I will buy one again
c) I will buy one again soon
d) I will buy one when the new model is released.

Would you recommend Acura to a friend?
a) I would definitely recommend one to a friend.
b) I have already recommended one to a friend.
c) I will recommend one to a friend
d) I love my car so of course I will recommend it to a friend.

What do you like best about Acura
a) Then engineering
b) The car colors
c) The driving experience
d) The entire car

Thank you for taking a survey from Acura.

It was like when I went to a couple of Lexus dealers looking at the ES. I asked if there was an option for an all leather steering wheel. Both places said the same thing - "we get a lot of requests for those". Is there some reason you aren't trying to get Lexus to sell them?


It was like when MS came out with the abomination known as Vista. Ballmer refused to hear how much it sucks. Then he started counting any new PC sale even if it had XP on it as a Vista license sold because they could "upgrade" to vista for free. I made a fortune upgrading people to XP from Vista and not one person regretted it as I promised I'd migrate them back to Vista for free if they weren't happier.

I meet with my customers OFTEN to get feedback. I don't want to find out a year later they aren't happy with their wireless or ISP or antispam... but never thought to bring it up. I WANT repeat business from them.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

at YES.man survey

weather

I just read that Genesis has hired the former designer from Bugatti to lead their design....And Acura stick with Merek and his lovely hair design.

boe_d

Is the mini Mohawk guy responsible for the 4G TL and the TLX?

weather

^^ BTW, I spelled his name incorrectly, it's Marek but here is some information:

...senior chief designer, and director of auto design at Honda R&D Americas in Los Angeles. He oversees every Honda and Acura design done in the U.S., and advises on projects done globally.

dmski

^ That's right. Gensis is coming out hard. I think they will embarrass Acura soon. I am patiently waiting for the G70 reveal. It could potentially replace my TLX. Leaving the brand after owning several TL's and MDX's. Lost all my patience.

BEAR-AvHistory

Isn't the picture in the crash test video the actual 2017 sheetmetal?

boe_d

My guess is while people on AZ have been trying to get Acura to listen about many things for ages, they probably only acknowledge anything at all on Facebook.

atl7

Can we let them reveal MMC and see what they have to offer before we torch the TLX? Most of you couldn't stand the bold styling of the 4G TL, screamed about it and they gave what you wanted with the 5G, something with soft looks. The TLX has its shortcomings and also the brand as a whole but with their new direction they seem to addressing that.

To say Acura has been selling mediocre products for the past 15 years is simply not true, and I think sales numbers go to support that. If it was mediocre, no consumer would pay the extra money for their product. My TLX is definitely the most boring Acura I've owned. That's not to say it's a bad car though, I really like it. I'm not sure why some on here still have their TLX and hate it so much. I believe if you can afford to get in a new Acura, you can also afford to get out of it.

pyrodan007

It's not a freakin can of coke that I can toss in the bin. Breaking a lease is not something I'm interested in. Maybe some of us are waiting for Acura's move before we leave for good. No matter how much I make, I still want something better before I move on. Although we may hate our TLX, version 2.0 can be better ... and it better be.

atl7

Breaking a lease on an Acura is usually a few thousand or less, which can be rolled into the new vehicle and nothing substantial. If you have major problems with the car's behavior, you did something wrong when you were car shopping. I knew on the first test drive that the car was very subdued and it had a lack of sportiness and how funky the 9 speed was. Not to be rude, but from what you've said you want in car and then going out and buying a TLX clearly shows you did some very poor research, if any. The car didn't trick you on the test drive and drive like a muscle car. I think the hidden exhaust pipes are a dead giveaway to the car's underwhelming driving experience.

pyrodan007

^^ That's why I leased it, didn't think I would keep the TLX from the very beginning. My research was: 1) I had a TL before, 2) Acura's are reliable, 3) Acura's are fun to drive, 4) Acura cares for it's customers. The TLX proved me wrong on all points but the first one (still have it). I never figure in the lease breaking since I'll keep it till the end (good or bad). I never said I wanted a muscle car. Not sure you noticed but many non-racers on this site are dissatisfied with their TLXs, to the point of losing money on a new car. You have an American one, many TSBs available to fix things. My Canadian one got jack shit, like pulling teeth to get stuff done.

And yes I did do a test drive, as you may know the transmission changes behavior as it gets older. Not for the best. Fortunately I know how to drive and use the paddle shifters to force gear changes. Without it, I would have returned it plan and simple since it's borderline dangerous on emergency situations.

boe_d

I would be thrilled if the MMC was all that and a bag o' chips but I doubt they are going to fix - the front end (not just the grill), replace ALL the dash tech, offer more engine choices on the mmc. I'd consider that a full model change. I know from looking at the Precision concept car that they are capable of making a street model car that looks nice. I know from looking at the precision concept car they are capable of making a nice dash (not the same as the precision concept cockpit concept which blows chunks) and I know from the Honda Accord Hybrid they are capable of making an engine that sips gas and gets decent acceleration. I know from the NSX they could make an engine to satisfy others on this forum.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

like stated; they've been doing the same shit for 15 years.
what makes you, or I, or anyone else think that it will change on a MMC no less?

nothing will change. Honda will keep producing BORING vanilla cars

weather

I have owned many Acura products and my test drive of the TLX was enough to keep me away from the brand. When I read the latest consumer reports for cars, ALL, and I mean ALL Acura sedans couldn't get a "recommended" mark - Only the RDX and the MDX did! That is pretty pathetic if you ask me. While we bash on Audi and BMW, they faired MUCH better than Acura and that is worrisome for a brand who is trying to re-establish its credibility. I owned the 4G TL and yes, it was a polarizing design but it was a great car and felt much more dynamic than the TLX.

It is one thing when you get bashed for the sheet metal provided your cars are reliable and fun to drive - you can correct a poorly designed vehicle. That being said, when you lose your reputation as far as reliability and such, that is MUCH MORE concerning. I didn't mind driving a polarizing but fun to drive car, but I would never drive a good looking shitty car - that is why many people have left and the damage they have done to their brand could take a long while to recover.

I would LOVE to get behind the wheel of another Acura, I really would and I keep holding on to the idea they'll finally see the light and get their act together but since 2009 or so, we have been doing nothing but hoping their design will improve (which they did) only to have it at the expense of reliability. Acura....we want RELIABLE, GOOD LOOKING and FUN cars - Please don't substitute one for the other.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

riding on their laurels instead of gun blazing the wild west

weather

^^ exactly, and GM did that in the late 70's and look what it did! You can't become complacent when it comes to reliability - Once you have it, you need to work hard to maintain it.

On a totally different note - Have you guys noticed that on the banner of Acurazine (top of the page), every single Acura products are displayed (from the NSX to the RDX - right to left) - Curious why the MDX I snot displayed?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

moderator checking in!
just a human design oversight. not because acurazine is biased or anything, just simply hard to design and forgot one.

atl7

The transmission is a very valid complaint, I get that. You can tell it's odd from a test drive but behavior did get worse as time went on in mine. I totally understand if you can't stand the TLX because of the 9spd in it. But none of your research consisted of owner reviews of the vehicle, or online reviews from car critics. I'm just saying, many people are complaining how boring their TLX is but the car is no different from day 1 when it was test driven and purchased, sounds like a mistake from the buyer not the car.

It definitely has not been 15 years of boring vanilla cars, that's a huge exaggeration. Maybe 3-4 years starting with the intro of the boring ILX and 2G RDX. My 3G TL, 4G AWD TL, and 2G MDX were not vanilla cars whatsoever, especially my '09 TL and '10 MDX which were very aggressive compared to competitor offerings. My '16 MDX and TLX are more bland looking, but still offer a lot of value and are very nice vehicles- Acura just took a turn away from performance and pissed off enthusiasts. If Acura upgrades the V6, I think MMC will fix the lackluster in the TLX. The TLX still has a beautiful design but some exterior and powertrain sport upgrades could help it even more.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

^you're just proving the point that Acura DOESNT know what it wants to be.

is it boring? is it luxury? is it experimental? is it beautiful? is it aggressive? is it sporty? is it performanced based?

atl7

I mean I'm not here to defend Acura? Their offerings have fallen pretty short lately. They learned their lesson and took an extreme when they received all the criticism of the "Advance." days. Although aggravating, they're SLOWLY trying to get competitive with the sportiness of other vehicles on the market.

boe_d

I think the SLOWness as you say is one of the biggest issues. Sometimes it best to accept a sunken investment and move on. The RLX is a lost cause. By the time the next model TLX comes out it will probably be nearly a generation behind the competition. Frankly the ILX is barely treading water and the TLX seems to have extreme swimmers cramp. They would be wise to get the precision concept out within 2 years MAX. Maybe release the full sized or mini version later this year and the second model next year. Their transmission is evidence that even a 7 year cycle isn't going to prevent mistakes. Their decade of the beak proves they are taking too long to get any input from their potential buyers to filter to the top brass. They've become about as nimble as a government agency. They need a MAJOR shake up. How many years should it take before tech from the Accord line makes it into the Acura line? IMHO anything new in the Accord or Civic line should be in all of the Acura's the following year. I still love my OLD Acura but Acura can't ride on past accomplishments for repeat business forever. If they put a better seat in the 10G accord I'm done with Acura. I'll get the newest tech, all the reliability that is slipping from Acura and a good price. You might say the Accord is boring looking but at least it looks like they designed it first before slapping the parts together. The current TLX reminds me of Frankenstein's monster - just grab a bunch of parts and stitch them together the best you can.

Tony Pac

I believe 60% or + of the members complain about Acura. Based on the feedback, AZ will have very few members in the next couple of years. I assume those of you who hate Acura cars will move on to Infiniti, Lexus, BMW, MB, Audi or Cadi.

With all the reviews & Youtube videos available on cars, we still go buy it and then complain 1st world problems.
@at7 100% agreed with your comments. I know the issues of 2016 MDX, the shortcomings but still I will go and buy it. I did my research and test drive. Those shortcomings and issues aren't relevant to me.

I love our member "Weather"....he had Acuras for years and after test driving TLX, he moved to Lexus. He is the man and all his complains and points are 100% valid. Respect!

quantum7

I think many of the frustrations have to do with what Acura used to be compared to what they have become. When I look for a new car I look to Acura first....have done this since 1988. Unfortunately when I did the same in 2015 I was very disappointed when I test drove the TLX. The build quality, the quality of the interior fit, finish, and materials, and most of all, the lag and indecision of the ZF9 convinced me to not purchase a TLX. The way in which Acura handled the initial complaints with the ZF has given me little confidence that this is the same Acura of old. We have beaten this to death.

My other big complaint with Acura is their marketing. They pretend to be performance, esp with the TLX "THRILL" campaign that they introduced this car under, and although you might call the TLX "sporty", I think value introduction luxury with a touch of sport is a better description.....but that isn't as sexy as Thrill in a TV spot. After the 4G was introduced Acura needed to have a plan....I just have no idea what it is right now.

For the first time I am looking at Lexus and Honda as the top contenders for my $. All depends on what Acura can produce in the next year. TLX and ILX (and even RDX) should be interesting in the next year or so.

pyrodan007

I agree, I may have put a little too much blind fate into Acura after owning a 07 Type S and 12 TL. BUT, if I lost my faith in Acura, who knows how many more will just throw the towel and walk away. Acura's secret weapon was price per feature. Now I see Acura as dollar store material, too good to be true.

Like they say. Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, hello Audi

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

ahem, it's been 15 years


maybe I'm exaggerating, but NO ONE CAN DENY that it's been a long long long long time, with NO foresight and NO game plan to ever turn it around.
sure, they keep saying they will. but year after year, it never happens.

and the 2018 MMC TLX isnt bringing it. whatever "it" is

atl7

Haha I agree! While I love my TLX, that's not to say the '17 A4 isn't an awesome vehicle

weather

I am very appreciative of this quote - I am a HUGE fan of this site and the members here. I know that at times, I bash Acura hard but I try to be as unbiased as possible, I am not an ANTI Acura nor a fanboy, just a person who praises the great things Acura have done and some of the recent mis-steps they have taken lately. It is nice to see that some people enjoy my contribution despite having a twisted sense of humor at times Had I been able to give you a double thanks for this post, I would have

wlkeel

Could well be, but sometimes it seems like a half dozen or so members just continue to complain, over and over and over and over. Makes it seem like a big percentage.

boe_d

I think the members who come here to complain if they come back more than once aren't here to stab Acura. They are probably like me - acura fans who want acura to turn things around.

pyrodan007

I may very well be one of the whiners on this site lol. But I don't just say "Acura sucks" and walk away. I WANT Acura to monitor these boards just to see what has happened over time. If they think sales went down just because of sedan vs crossover transitions ... well somebody should be fired immediately!

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

you cant deny the numbers tho.
Sedans are DEAD in general.
Ford moved ALL sedan production to Mexico, as did another auto manufacturer... I think and I want to say VW.
Because SUV/CUV Truck sales is STRONG and they make MORE profit

Acura SUV/CUV sales are strong.

but here's another strange one...CUVs are SO STRONG right now, but Acura refuses to release the CDX in America. it's only a Chinese release that is based on the Honda HRV
They could have had a MAJOR hit!!!!!!
CDX,RDX and MDX!!

SeismicGuy

Exactly. And they really squandered their golden opportunity of actually being the first of the Asian makers to dip their toe into the luxury market. I remember back in 1986 when the Legend first came out and it was something like an unheard of (for Asian import) MSRP of about $20K. They sold anyway and that was essentially the end of the story. They basically kept with the one luxury model and ended up dropping the name. Then models came and went over the years but, in the meantime, Lexus came along and really stuck with it developing a broad spectrum model line with variants at each level. It really comes down to business sense and marketing and vision.

Momyc

I was on same boat (blind fate) and now I'm throwing the towel. After 2 very pleasant Acuras (07TL and 2009TL) I was expecting 2015 to be the next level but it turn out to be the worse.
I start negation for a 2017 A4 . The only thing that still keeps me for signing the papers is the negotiation of the loss that I'll take on the trade as I still have 14 months to go on my TLX. If the numbers wouldn't be so bad . I wouldn't look back.
Sorry Acura , the way you treat your Canadian customers with no attempt to fix the transmissions problems as "is normal" it will cost you on long run.
My 2c