Time For Sleeep

Basically, I drive an '01 Aegean Blue Pearl CL-S. I can't really see the "pearl" part anymore because all I can see from distance in the sun are paint swirls and shallow scratches. Is there any way I can get this taken care of? I miss actually seeing hte pearl flakes inside the paint. . It actually looks flat blue now instead of pearl. Suggestions please? ((Is scratch X enough to get rid of it, or should I machine buff, or take it to a professional detailer...))

bateman

I have had great results with Meguiars #9 Swirl Remover applied with a Porter Cable polisher. From what I have read something like scratch X will just cover it up rather than polish the swirls out like the #9 will do.

chuckz

can the #9 be applied without a PC?

Time For Sleeep

Curious about that too... so no scratch X? Cause I got a tube of that shit. haha.

Moodist

iTrader: (2)

You can use scratch x and it will work well, you will just be tired out from getting rid of swirls by hand.

you can probably use alot of products by hand, it is just that a PC makes it much much easier and less tiring.

Time For Sleeep

What exactly is the process for using scratch x? Glob it on and let it sit? Use the applicator and rub it in deeply and let it set? How long should I leave it before wiping off w/ a microfiber?

stogie1020

Time For Sleep,

If you decide to do this by hand, PLEASE take before/after pics. I have a NBP TSX and may need to do this by hand in the near future (bought cheap MF towels at first... ). I would love to see how well ScratchX works by hand. Seems like everyone uses a PC, but I live in an appartment and have no garage/power/hose... Good luck, and don't forget the pics!

StanMan

http://www.autopia-carcare.com/how-to.html

http://www.topoftheline.com/problemsolvers.html

Time For Sleeep

Awesome. Thanks.

I'll probably do it this weekend, and I'll definitely put up the pictures.

chuckz

how good are their products^^^^?

Anthony Orosco

Hello,

Most likely you have marring (halo scratches) from washing and drying and not buffer swirls (halograms).

If you have an orbital polisher, like the PC, you should be able to take care of most of them with a mild polishing pad, like Lake Country's white pad, and a polish like Menzerna IP or Optimum Polish. Finish that off with a black or blue foam finishing pad and either the Optimum polish again or Menzerna FPII.

Seal with the sealer of your choice.

To help keep the marring down you may need to adjust your washing and drying habits.

Hope that helps,
Anthony

Anthony Orosco

This depends on the product. TOL carries a large inventory of products and since I am their "tester" I have used the whole Menzerna line, Hi-Temp line, Optimum line, 303, RaggTop, Rolite, English Custom polish, tools, pads, etc. so let me know which products you are curious about and I'll do my best to give you the pros and cons.

Anthony

chuckz

i was thinking about their Paint Polish Medium Cut, Midnight Express, Black Velvet. how does their products compare to meguiars, klasse, im pretty sure it cant touch zaino's quality though, right?

Time For Sleeep

Well... this is my situation. I'm not too familiar w/ car detailing, as the poor condition of my poor car's paint indicates... .

What's the difference between halograms and halo scratches?

In any case, this is my situation.

-No access to an electrical polisher. This has gotta be done all by hand.
-Going to hit up a pep boys or auto zone for all the supplies that I need. So if I could get product suggestions for stuff available @ local car places.. that'd be rockin'.

Will doing this as a full wash this weekend be enough?
1.Wash
2.California blade
3.Clay
4.Re-wash and dry
5.Go to work with Scratch X on my hood mostly and everywhere else (should I use another polishing product to get the halo scratches out?)
6.Polish
7.Wax / Seal (Wax = Seal right?)

I'm sure this routine is a bit over the top, but I just wanted to see what everyone else thought.

Thanks ya'll.

DEI99662

SSR works well too.

Hawhyen51

Anthony, question for you .... How does the Hi Temp Light cut compare to the Pinnacle Paintwork Cleanser and the P21S Paintwork Cleanser? Cost wise, it's a steal provided the results are equal if not better.

CLpower

Try megs #83 for heavier swirls and megs #80 for lighter swirls


if you'd like, i can send you a sample of #83

StanMan

if you are new to this, doing by hand and have the attitude "anything will be better than what you got now," get any one line of product from the chain stores and make sure it says hand applicable. mothers or meguiars will do it.

- the clay system plus an extra bottle of detailing spray
- swirl remover
- glaze, if you care
- wax

for example,
http://www.mothers.com/products/prod...paintprod.html

meguiar's line and website design is more complex, but they have similar stuff to.

Time For Sleeep

I can pick up Mother's @ any auto supply store I believe right?

Anthony Orosco

Is this for your personal car or do you have a detailing business?

Also if you are seeking to just get products for your car what color is it and does it need only minor or major paint correction?

I can give you better answers if I know those few things. As far as a comparison to Meguairs I think the Hi-Temp products are just as good, in many cases better, and for alot less money.

I love the Klasse AIO but I hate the Klasse Sealant Glaze.

Zaino is a nice product but as a pro it is not cost nor time effective. If you are a weekend warrior and you like to use Zaino then more power to you but since the Zaino line does not do any paint correction it is useless to me as I do not want to hide or cover up swirls/marring but rather remove and correct them.

Get back with me on the other things, Adios
Anthony

Anthony Orosco

Hello,

The Light Cut outperforms both products you mentioned. Those products are boutique type products that are way overpriced for what they do, which is basically clean paint. They have hardly any abrasive properties to them so while they can get paint squeaky clean they can't do much for removing marring or swirls.

The Light Cut performs well by hand but really shines when used with a rotary. If you have a PC or a Cyclo you can get great results, far better than Cleansing Lotion and Paintwork Cleanser using the same machine.

A really nice combo is cleaning/polishing with Light Cut, Menzerna Final Polish II and then either Trade Secret paste wax or Optimum Spray Wax.

I'll try and get some pictures posted up in a little bit if anyone is interested in seeing my results?

Thanks,
Anthony

Anthony Orosco

Halograms are caused by using a rotary polisher with an abrasive pad/product and not finishing out the polishing job. Many hack detailers polish in the shade and the paint may look nice and glossy after being buffed but then you take it out in the sun and ? There are these 3D looking ribbons flowing all through the paint.....well those are buffer swirls or halograms.

If the detailer had worked down to a finer pad and product combo then the swirls would be gone (in a nutshell swirls are micro scratches).

Halo-scratches look like circles of scratches, hence the term "halo", but in reality they are hundreds of super fine scratches whos raised edges catch the light and reflect back. Many people call these "swirls" also but I like to seperate them because dealing with them requires seperate methods. Buffer swirls are introduced with a rotary and a rotary is then needed to remove them.

Halo scratches (also referred to as "marring") are introduced into paint from washing and drying. You can keep them at bay for only a time and they then reappear. Buffer swirls on the other hand can be kept away as long as the buffing job is properly finished out.

Now to get your paint back in top shape you will most likely need a polisher. Since you don't have one then you may want to look up a good detailer in your area. If you like you can also tackle this on your own by either buying a polisher or perhaps renting one.

By hand I am not sure you can get the desired results as you need heat and friction to properly polish the paint and your hand alone can't generate enough heat and friction.

Hope that helps,
Anthony

Time For Sleeep

That it does. Immensly. . Thanks for the info.

Guess I might have to call in a professional after all.

Guess I'll try to see what I can do by hand though.

Oh, and is it natural for my ABP to look like it's flat paint instead of the pearlescent shine? I'll assume the marring and other impurities is causing this. Cause I don't see pearl flakes anymore.

Anthony Orosco

Most likely it is the marring that is clouding the finish or there could be a paint issue at hand.

Perhaps you can post up a picture, in the full sun, and maybe we can determine the problem and solution better that way?

Glad to be of help,
Antony

exceldetail

Not entirely true. Ive been asked several times to remove rotary induced buffing insignias and halograms, and have had great success with a PC, along with proper pads and products.
Maybe I have a slightly different definition of halograms (Buffer induced, user uniform swirls, as Anthony said, due to improper/incomplete use of a rotary polisher). I like to refer to marring as swirls associated with improper washing/drying techniques and product selection.

I detailed a Black STS that had unbelievable "marring" from way too many trips to the corner spit shine. With a couple products and a PC, i was able to remove the "marring".
Im not arguing with Anthonys description, or prescription, just different takes on the subject at hand.

Time For Sleeep

I'll take pictures when I can. Hopefully this weekend. Someone was asking for before and after my self detailing job anyways.

How much does a good, yet affordable PC run for? I don't however want to end up getting this bit of equipment and getting those halograms as you said.

Time For Sleeep

Besides actual product... how many microfiber towels shoudl I be picking up?

And should I buy an applicator for each individual product?

I know same applicator for polish and wax =

exceldetail

You can aquire a Porter Cable 7424/7336 for about $100.00, and a set of pads for for $15.00.
You should have several pads for various products also....

chuckz

well i was going to use thier products for my personal car. i have a NBP 97 cL (my avatar). i have a lot of swirl marks in my paint. its really bothering me. they are not hollogram swirls rather halo-swirls. i want something that restores the paint to almost brand new or as close and gives a great shine and depth to the paint. ive heard a lot of great things from klasse products and have seen pics from its results and i really like it. i am lookin for something along these lines which are also cheaper (cost) than klassse and zaino products put gets the job done.

thanks,
chuckz

Time For Sleeep

So I won't be buying a porter cable polisher. If anything, I'll buy it around end of summer to fall/winter. (no money, I want to spend that money on camber kits).

And... DAMN. I can't wait to get started on my car this weekend.

Meguiars shoudl be available @ a Kragen/Autozone/Pep Boys right?

exceldetail

Chuck, Klasse isnt going to do anything for swirls, halograms, whatever you want to call them. AIO is a chemical cleaner, and not capable of removing swirls.....
If cost is an issue, go with Meguiars or Poorboys World SSR's.......

Anthony Orosco

Hey Chuck,

Exceldetail is correct in that Klasse AIO is not much in the area of leveling paint and this si what you need to do in order to get that glass look you so desire.

In other words you will need to abrade away a tiny film of paint to the "level" where the paint imperfections live, hence the term "leveling paint".

Easiest way to do this is with a rotary (high speed polisher) and proper pads, best choice are 7.5 inch pads. Now the PC can also do a certain amount of polishing but it can't do what the rotary can do. The Cyclo polisher will perform even better than the PC but the Cyclo also costs $300.

For product choice, in the leveling department, I would go with either Menzerna Intensive Polish or Optimum Polish. The Menzerna is hefty in the price area but cuts the paint fast and safely. The Optimum Polish is less aggressive than the IP but has twice the amount of working time, does not dust up and costs alot less.

The Hi-Temp Light Cut is a great choice but it does not have the cutting or leveling ability of IP so what you may want to do is order the Hi-Temp "sample" kit from Top Of The Line, I believe that comes with some Light Cut.

If not then order the smallest bottle of Light Cut they offer, get some 6inch pads for the PC (assumming you have or can get a PC), I would get 1 orange pad, 1 white and a black finishing pad (Lake Country pads). The orange pad is for the leveling stage, the white for the polishing and the black for the finishing stage.

If money is an issue then try the Light Cut as your leveling product with the orange pad and then use the Light Cut again with the white pad and then Paint Pefection Glaze (also from Hi-Temp, it has a glaze and paint sealant) for the finishing stage.

If you can afford to spend a bit more then the better shoice would be -

Leveling stage - Menzerna Intensive Polish & orange pad (Try the white pad with IP first, if it does not get the paint level then try the orange pad. Always use the least abrasive pad/product combo first then work up in aggressivness)

Polishing (This step cleans up the slight marring introduced by the leveling stage) - My personal choice here would be Optimum Polish and the white Lake Country pad.

Final polishing step just before sealing - Menzerna Final Polish II and either a black or blue finishing pad from Lake Country. The blue pad is finer than the black pad.

Then seal the paint with either Trade Secret paste wax or the Optimum Spray Wax. The paste wax will give you a deeper warmth to the paint but the Optimum Spray Wax is easier to apply and lasts longer and it is also layerable to after every wash you can apply the Optimum spray wax and be done in about 10 minutes.

If i can be of more help let me know,
Anthony

chuckz

anthony,

i appreciate your help alot. i dont have a pc or can get mine on one either. how much do high speed polichers cost? does wal mart carry any? do u have a link with all these products in the site so i could see how much it'll run.

thanks,
chuckz

Brewmaster

Anthony .. finally another Menzerna user on here .. (I've felt sooo alone )

Question: in the above post you recommended Optimum or Trade Secret .. have you tried Menzerna FMJ?? I've had excellent results with it. (In fact, a third layer will be going on this weekend.)

Anthony Orosco

I believe you can get a PC at Lowes for around a $100 or so. You can also get them on ebay from time to time.

I believe Harbor Frieght Tools (I think that's the name, they're an online tool company) carries a low level rotary for around $65. It's not a bad tool to get for learning the basics of high speed rotary work.

A really top notch rotary is the DeWalt variable speed rotary. It costs around $199 but it's most likely the only rotary you'll ever need.

Here are a few links to som eof the products I mentioned.

Polish/wax - http://www.topoftheline.com/32ozpainswir.html

Polish - http://www.topoftheline.com/hitligcutswi.html

Polish - http://www.topoftheline.com/meninpol.html

Polish - http://www.topoftheline.com/menfinpolll.html

Polish - http://www.topoftheline.com/menfinpolll.html

I have given you several choices for polishes and if you have any questions regarding them let me know as I have used them all and tried to give you an outline of what they do in a previous thread.

Here are the two waxes I mentioned

http://www.topoftheline.com/toltradcarwa.html

http://www.topoftheline.com/optimumcarwax.html

Take care,
Anthony

Anthony Orosco

I really like the Menzerna line and yes the FMJ is a great product. I use it on a regular basis although I don't care much for the Finishing Touch Glaze......well any glaze really.

Anthony

chuckz

once again, thank u anthony. i see that their products are not too expensive. the most expensive product is the wax. ill have to see what i could do in regards of gettin my hands on a pc or high speed polisher.

JGsTL-S

where on the cut scale would Hi-Temp rank as far as meguiars scale? ex. would hi-temp medium cut be at meguiars 83 or 80? and light cut at meguiars #9 swirl remover? reason I ask is b/c of cost also..83 is 20 bucks and 80 is 16 bucks...I'm looking for a close substitute to meguiars 80.

thanks

Anthony Orosco

Hello,

I am not very familiar with the Meguiar line but from what I have read Light Cut would be something between #80 and #9. Medium Cut is perhaps a tad more aggressive than #80

Let me know if I can help out anymore,
Anthony

JGsTL-S

thanks anthony, I ordered some medium cut with an orange pad for some stubborn scratches. I figure the megs #9 will buff that out nicely and then on with my regular proceedure.

Thanks for the input

JG