SugoiKeoni

Just got back from the dealership in Santa Monica and they quoted my $1,400 for the job on my 2004 TL - timing belt, water pump, gaskets, etc.

So - I called a local shop and they want $1,115.

My third call resulted in a quote of $850 and they recommended that the spark plugs get changed at about 105K as well for an additional $150. They wanted $100 more for the gaskets but said that they are not normally replaced until the 2nd timing belt.

All shops are using Acura parts.

The Acura dealer stressed that I needed the gaskets replaced at the same time and said that this is why the service was more costly. Is this an upsell?

Any comments here? Should I keep shopping?

Thanks for the help!

04WDPSeDaN

iTrader: (1)

Thing you would need:

Timing belt
Water pump
gaskets
Tensioners ( if needed)
Coolant service since your coolant is getting drained out by replacing the pump
Plugs (If needed)

The shop I work at will charge about 1,500 + for this job. All parts from acura. Ive seen customers not wanting to do water pumps and ive seen some fail and locked up which resulted in the belt breaking and end results was either a new engine or re-doing the T-belt job again. If tensioners are worn now is the best possible time to replace them. Usually we recommend replacing everything that's there just because it's a pita of a job.

Best of luck T-belts aren't something to bargin with.

Trew

iTrader: (1)

I wouldn't recommend replacing the timing belt without putting a new tensioner. Most tensioners do not exhibit problems until they are disturbed.

IMO it's not worth the gamble since the TL has an interference engine (valves crash into pistons).

Bearcat94

Price sounds about right.

Did mine on the 2002 (basically the same J-Series 3.2L) and it was significantly less expensive becuase it was done at the same time as the Timing Belt Tensioner Recall. That saved ~4 hours labor plus the parts associated with the recall (tensioner pulley, etc.).

Without the recall, dealer price would've been ~$1200, IIRC.

DaveD

I've been having service done at a local Honda dealership as my nearest Acura dealership is about 130 miles away (St. Louis).
The Honda dealership quoted me 695.00 with Acura parts.
How's that?

Legend2TL

The gaskets are a upsell, the TB is in a "dry area" on a J-series motor. The water pump comes with a gasket installed, the only other gaskets are the upper TB covers and lower TB cover have some soft rubber gaskets that keep dirt/debris out of the TB area. These gaskets do not get replaced unless they are damaged or decaying. I've replaced TB's on a couple dozen Acura's and Honda's and never replaced them. Some with over 200K miles.

Things to replace

1) Timing Belt
2) Water Pump
3) Spark Plugs (same service time)

A maybe replacement is the timing belt tensioner, there were some problems on older J-series motors but supposidly the newer tensioners have been extremely reliable. The problem was the tensioner would leak some of the dampening oil out of the tensioner pin end. I replaced the TB/water pump on my wife's Honda Pilot last fall (same TB and water pump) and did not replace the tensioner. Also a maybe replacement is the idler pully which has a sealed bearing, I've never had one go bad but some folks replace them for insurance. I've never replaced one but I always inpsect and check for bearing play and smooth rotation whenever I change a TB.

The idea of going to a Honda dealer makes sense since they are already used to J-series motors on Odysee's, Pilots, and Accord V6's.

sixsixfour

so if and when the service comes up on the MID, its recommended to do the timing belt and water pump at the same time?

Legend2TL

Yes, always replace the water pump when the timing belt is replaced.

Majofo

Many Aziners have done the 105k service themselves. It is a bit of a PITA but not too bad and definitely worth it if you have someone who has worked on Honda's.

The spark plugs will probably take you an hour or two. They're a bit tricky because the electrode on the coil is spring loaded and you need to make sure you connect the coil harness back firmly. I had this issue earlier this week on my X. The rear three (456) are a PITA because of the support bar, some have removed the support.. but I still worry about possible frame / body flex even though many aziners have removed it for plugs or aftermarket swap no problem. Also check your PCV valve.

I think a fair price would be around $600. Often Acura Service will offer replacement deals throughout the year in hopes of maybe hooking you on other service. I did my X for $499 + w/p. I had to pay for parts on exchanging the tensioner, but they tried to hook me on a brake job and $300 on plugs.. yadda yadda.. (in one ear out the other) said nevermind just do the belt.

So you may want to wait or ask the service manager when the next time they may offer a discounted deal.. also.. depending on your area.. try to find another dealership doing it / has done it cheaper and ask if they'll match. In the mean time.. shop around with good Indie shops who service Honda / Acura and you should be able to find a good deal. What I would personally do is buy the parts myself (Acura OE) and then price shop labor.

..and concerning the gasket do you mean the cover seals or the head gasket. I haven't heard anyone doing a head gasket on 105k. That's a takes some work and sounds like an upsell. If you are talking about the cover seals that is probably unneccessary but it's a nice to have. It depends on if it is needed or not. Talk to the Master Tech, get under the car or have them at least show you and get their opinion why your gasket(s) need replacement.

DasTeknoViking

Hit me up if you need em done.... Takes about hour n half to do.

Water pump, new drive belt (comes off to do a t-belt anyways), new timing belt and POSSIBLY a tensioner. I have seen quite a few with some oil inside the piston cavity and thats not a good sing.

Also whoever charged U extra 4 hours to do a timing belt while doin the tensioner recall..... you got hosed. Tech was way too greedy, you have to remove the covers in order to do a tensioner "right" and once you are in there its just a few more min to do a WP and the belt.

Rob RiL

iTrader: (5)

Thermostat too.
I'd do the gaskets and the tensioner as preventative maintenance while the other work was getting done. Better at that time then if it fails a little later.

Bearcat94

You mean me?

If so, it was the other way around.

Because I did the timing belt/water pump *when the recall was being done* I was charged something like 30 mins labor for the Timing Belt Plus Water Pump.

They subtracted 4 hours labor since it was nothing "extra" to do those while they were in there doing the Tensioner Recall. Basically Timing Belt and WP labor was free (almost free).


(actually, I think it was normally 4 hours and they charged me 30 mins, so 3.5 hours saved/reduced/deducted).

Bearcat94

Just went back and looked:

I was charged (total incl tax): $528.50 for Timing Belt Replacement, Water Pump Replacement and Drive Belt Replacement.

Flat Rate time on TSB 03-022 which is Timing Belt Replacement, Water Pump Repalcement and Auto-Tensioner is 3.3 hours

Flat Rate time on TSB 03-022 Timing Belt Auto-Tensioner ONLY is 2 hours.

Diff = 1.3 hours and I was charged something like 30 mins.

myron

iTrader: (4)

Sorry I am stealing this thread but didn't wanna stat a new thread for a simple question about timing belt and this one is already discussing it.

I am at 96 000 km or 60 000 miles roughly, and the dealership I took my car too to look at my transmission told me that I would need a timing belt and water pump done at this milage. Car is an 05 and 85% of the miles are highway miles. Do you think I should be doing this now and spend 1400$ (what they would charge me to do this) or wait a little longer? I am definitelly not beating on this car and there is no rought driving. I dont race or do hard pulls, just gentle driving since I want this car to last me for a long time.

Majofo

Acura Dealership? No way!.. Talk to the tech and look at the T/B.. Unless the W/P failed / leaking there is no reason to do service. It is highly unlikely that the T/B & W/P need replacement especially if you drive modestly. 60k miles is a standard replacement interval on many vehicles but the 3G TL is at 105k miles. Business must be bad.. Sad.

Bearcat94

Wait for it to come up on the MID (should be ~105k). It's code is a "4" - for example "Service Due Soon B14".

Unless:


https://techinfo.honda.com/rjanisis/...505O00204A.pdf



Owners Manual FTW!!

Legend2TL

Wow, you must be fast! The fastest TB change I've done was on a 1989 Civic and that was 2 1/2 hours taking my time on a engine bay that is far less cluttered than a 3G TL.
The other 2 dozen or so TB changes take me 3-4 hours.

myron

iTrader: (4)

Why are you surprised I said Acura Dealership? My car is still under warranty and I went there for them to look at the 3rd gear. They told me I was getting close to 96 000km and I should get that done and they offered to do it for 1400$.

myron

iTrader: (4)

so I can wait a little longer then? It says constant driving, but winter here is 5 months and only 1 month out of the year its that cold. My 99 TL is at 180 000 km and I dont think the T/B was ever replaced. It ran good till I crashed it 3 weeks ago but its coming back soon

joed40

With the economy being the way it is and new car sales down, dealerships are being aggressive with their "suggestions". I have had "change brake fluid" and "flushing coolant" suggestions along with the others.

Obviously timing belts/pumps are different. Just beware the add-ons.

DasTeknoViking

Acura says 7 years or 105K miles on pretty much all their cars from 1990+ as far as timing belt goes.

Only leakers are the C-series motors, in the Legends, NSX and RLs... SOMETIMES they tend to leak some coolant out of the water pump. Then again I even seen them on the B-series. J series motors never leak.

Brake fluid is recommended every 3 years or 45K miles. It absorbs moisture and can contaminate brake lines with it. I have replaced many brake lines on old Vigors and Integras because people never replaced their brake fluid on time. This also causes leaky calipers (2 piston on the GS Legends are famous) and bad master cylinder seals.

Its all preventative maintenance. Its up to you the consumer to decide what you want to get out of your car- usage wise. Are you goin to keep it for 6+ years ? Or are you going to be dumping it within 2-3 years ? I had a few Maximas in my life, and everyone of them was pampered with stuff that even Nissan doesnt recommend, my 90 SE 5MT went 320K miles before I sold it... and my 01 MT5 had 190K when I sold it. They ran like a champ and ever needed anything.

I drive a VW R32 personally and I get shit from people in my shop all the time for having VW, yet my car always runs, no CEL, no issues. And I got almost 100K miles on it. Sure I do every oil change, diff service, and fluid flush before its due.... but the car rewards me with trouble free motoring for years to come.

myron

iTrader: (4)

^ do you have mk4 r32? I love those man. I think they are suck nice cars. But the interior is just like a normal mk4 besides seats so that's a let down a little.

Mase075

I just had this done Thursday for $550 with Acura parts. That was for timing belt/water pump/coolant/and the other belts.

Majofo

You didn't say Acura dealership so I wanted clarification in case you went to an independent dealership. I am very suprised the Acura dealership said you need a new T/B.

What you need to do is find out why they said get it done. I'd rather deal with a used car dealer than my local service writers. What I suspect is they are trying to milk you for service. You sell the car and get a new one.. They milk the next guy at 105k.

What you should say is: "the maintenance schedule on this car is 105k for a timing belt and w/p.. if you think it needs to be done then you should do it for free because failure before 105k is a mechanical failure not maintenance!"

Then see what they say. To me it's complete b.s. unless you told them you push the car to redline every week or keep it in extreme temps year round.

SodaLuvr

Just called a few Honda dealerships to check on the price of a timing belt service for a friend's Accord V6. Labor time is about the same for the TL.

Timing Belt, Water Pump, Drive Belts and Coolant- $649
Hydraulic tensioner (if needed): $111
Spark Plug Replacement: $265 (eligible for 10% discount)
Valve Adjustment (a MUST, since valve burning is starting to become an issue): $299

Total is $1325 out-the-door. Acura dealerships are quoting about $250 to $300 more.

omelet1978

When I was doing research on this one of the Acura dealers in vegas said they would do it for like 6-7 hundred if it helps...

SodaLuvr

If its just the timing belt, water pump and drive belts, that sounds about right. But there's more to a "4" service than just the timing belt service, you must replace the spark plugs and perform a valve adjustment.

Majofo

Oh man.. I just imagined my local service writer giving me the breakdown.. and me looking dead in his eye and shaking my head. ::

$300 for spark plugs!? (break out into hysterical laughter)..

$300 for a Valve Adjustment?! (ROFL LMFAO )

The other prices look okay...

SodaLuvr

The plugs are about $15-$20/each times six. Labor is .9 I think. Labor rates are about $120/hr in many areas.

The valve adjustment requires removal of a few items to reach the back bank IIRC. Book on it is over 2 hours.

Majofo

I'm not one to pass up an offer for $120 for an hours work to the next man. Plugs are a no brainer.. and for $20 do you mean NGK Laser OE Iridiums? My local stealership tried charging me more for NGK Platinum plugs.. unbelievable.. they're less than half the price at any parts store.

Most experienced and reputable shops should be able to do a valve adjustment on our motors in no more than 2 hrs but at $120.. no way.. maybe $60..

Makes me sick how much the stealership makes and only passes down a fraction to the tech.

SodaLuvr

The 04 TL takes NGK IZFR6K11 spark plugs, Acura Part #9807B-5617W. List price is $18.08/plug. Amazon has them for $13.56/plug shipped, so my parts prices were in the ballpark.

The amount of actual time taken for the job is irrelevant as shops work on the flat rate system. If you don't like the flat rate system, then do the work yourself or take it to the Grease Monkey down the street where they charge by the job instead of by the book.

In addition, it costs a lot of money to run a legitimate business. Have you priced out professional tools lately? I just bought three Snap-On 3/8" drive Dual 80 ratchets. Together, I paid $225 for three ratchets, and that was only because I was able to find them brand new on eBay. If I had bought them from the truck, I would've paid $300. And the tech has to pay for those tools.

The shop has to supply diagnostic software. That easily runs $7 to $10k just for one brand. Lifts cost money. Workman's comp is extremely expensive. Employee training, insurance, etc. It all adds up.

The point is, tools cost a lot of money. It costs a lot to run a legitimate business. $120/hr is about average in this day and age for labor. If you don't want to pay that, then you should do it yourself. But to suggest that the prices that I listed are outrageous are a bit ridiculous if you do not consider the true costs of running an auto shop.

bdogg77

bend over here it comes

300.00 for spark plugs???? that just paid for your wrenches.....

SouthernBoy

Very lucid and succinct response. Businesses have a duty and responsibility to set their fees appropriate to both return a profit and compete with other businesses in their arena. Consumers also have a duty and responsibility to shop these busiesses and base their needs and choices upon the results of their search. In the end, it all works out quite well in the free market system.

We so often forget there is always a cost of doing business which is usually borne by the consumer as it should be. We the consumers get to vote with our wallets as to which of these businesses continue to receive our patronage and therefore get to stay in business. This means it is we who have the ultimate power.

Majofo

I hear you SL and your price on the T/B looked good. I didn't mean to come off too crass but it is a real PITA to find a shop that will do quality work at a fair price not fair market price.. and as for the flat rate system.. a couple shops I went to gave me a flat rate estimate but when work was done.. "it took us longer on this and then this.. blah.."

Working on cars can be a very dirty and dangerous job.. injuries.. corrosive and combustible chemicals.. rat poop.. you name it.. but $120 ~ 150 / hr is pretty insane to me.. and then to try to charge another $100 to change the air / pollen filter.. or to pressure us to do work "or else you'll die b/c you vehicle is unsafe!!"

I'm just completely fed up with some of the upsell tactics.. IMO it is becoming very unethical at many of these dealer shops.

I went to my local shop to do the t/b change for $499 + w/p and about $100 more for the tensioner about a month ago for my MDX (semi-annual special). They wanted to tack on $3600 in work

$1600 - rear main seal & t/c seal
$500 - front & side motor mounts
$500 - new brake pads
$300 - reboot driveshaft
$300 - spark plugs
$350 - 2 new tires
$60 - reseal p/s pump

$3600!!!

I took it to my guy who used to work at a dealership shop. I bought new driveshafts for $140.. he installed them for $130. I replaced both of my front driveshafts for a total of $270 and Acura wanted $300 to put on a new CV boot!

Then I asked my guy (transmission specialist) what his opinion was about my transmission. He said it was very minimal and to not touch it.. he went on to say that even with new cars that sometimes a bit seeps so he cleaned down any fluid and no signs of a leak since. He also looked at my mounts and he said my side mount was fine and the front mount engaged appropriately.

I spent less than $10 for o-rings and stop leak for the p/s pump. I bought NGK IX at $7 each for a total of $42. I bought ceramic pads front & rear for $70 and 1 qt Catrol GT LMA brake fluid for $6. My front tires have about 0.3'' of tread on them which my cheap ass will drive another 5k miles on and buy 4 new ones in the summer for $300 which is less than Acura wanted for 2 and probably sell the tires which have more tread on for like $20-40.

So my stealerships price $3600 became a weekend job and 1 day at the shop. My breakdown:

$0 - rear main seal & t/c seal (trans guy said it's okay)
$0 - front & side motor mounts (also okay)
$76 - new ceramic brake pads & 4 line flush
$270 - Replaced both front driveshafts (acura wanted more for rebooting old one)
$42 - spark plugs
$300 - 4 new tires (Acura wanted more for 2.. btw.. check out treadepot)
$10 - reseal p/s pump

$700!! for quality work and materials. So as my most recent experience has been that all these upsell items and inflated part prices have made me a bit of a curmudgeon.

dvr8675

My younger brother is a tech. at a local dealership. Sometimes (maybe once a month) he will be able to get 20hrs in a day. Those are great days. But at least 3 days a week he will sit there for 12 hrs and get no hours. When an oil change pays 2/10 (or 50 oil changes make a 10hr. day) and your rate is $11/hr that one oil change pays you $2.20. BTW, the customer just paid $45 for that oil change, what do you think that dealer paid for that bulk oil they keep in the 500 gal tank?

ekxtreem

lmao.........word!! give me half that and i will do it for you