Mike_TX

I sometimes wonder if Acura is shooting itself in the foot to some extent with features in its various models. To wit:

Key things both the RLX and TLX share -

1. Same engine (albeit with a few less hp) for the TLX, offset by lighter weight and gearing
2. Electronic parking brake and Brake Hold
3. Capless fuel filler
4. Exact same steering wheel controls
5. Dual-screen upper console layout
6. Touch entry and push-button start

Etc.

Things the TLX (Tech) has that the RLX (Tech) does not -

1. 60/40 split folding rear seats
2. Improved Nav system functionality
3. Improved mileage
4. 9-speed transmission
5. Improved ride quality
6. IDS

So, I could trade down to a TLX, lower my lease payments significantly, and gain some benefits I'd really enjoy. The slightly smaller size and overall interior room of the TLX is no problem at all for me ... I've had rear-seat passengers in my RLX exactly two times in 14 months, and we're not big people.

In addition, the improved ride quality of the TLX is something I'd really like, since my RLX has kind of a jiggly ride and hits hard bumps with a jolt.

The fold-down rear seats aren't something I use frequently, but when you need them they are really handy. And since we travel cross-country a few times a year, the better gas mileage would be a nice bonus.

Don't be too surprised if I jump ship!

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TacoBello

what does the RLX have that the TLX doesnt?

holografique

^ not much when you really look at it.

* Much more luxurious interior
* Roomier interior (both front and rear)
* Larger, higher quality steering wheel (even though the controls are the same, the steering wheel itself is not the same)
* Slightly faster hp performance

And that's about it. I'm with Mike on this one. The 2016 should have brought the tech up on the RLX, not fall further behind than the current TLX/MDX. The addition of AcuraWatch was about the only thing done aside from fixing the suspension.

From what little I've read, seen, and experienced, this seems to be the tradition with the RL/RLX/Legend line. When they update it, it get's all the latest and newest tech, but once it's done, they take fooooorever for any significant updates, allowing the other vehicles in the lineup to surpass at some point during it's lifetime.

If the TLX offered the same quality and luxurious interior build of the RLX, I would jump ship without question. The ride quality alone in the TLX is worth the consideration. It's the TLX interior that kills it for me.

Mike_TX

Well, while the RLX interior is nice, the things that really matter to me are the comfort of the seats and the layout of the controls. Leather (or is it vinyl?) on the dash looks great, but while you're driving, you're watching the road and it isn't any real benefit.

I sat in a TLX today, and to me it feels plenty luxurious enough. And the seats and controls are virtually identical to those in my RLX.

I'm not really trying to impress anyone but myself, so I have no issues with the TLX's interior.

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Mike_TX

I think the main things the RLX has are a classier image and more exclusivity. It's a more expensive car and there are fewer of them on the road.

While the RLX has 20 more hp, it is heavier and geared more for comfort than quickness. It will run like a madman in Sport mode, but so will the TLX, and I think the TLX actually has a lower 0-60 time. The TLX's 9spd trans probably accounts for some of that, since it can be geared better.

Bottom line is that the RLX is a more luxurious car, while the TLX is its sportier cousin.

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holografique

Neither am I. I just like the nicer interior of the RLX. The seats are comfier for me, the leather quality is better, and the dashboard layout for me has a better visual design. I don't like all the chrome in the TLX, and the side door armrest and door components feel low quality. I'm an engineer with a designer eye, so these things matter to me. Otherwise the car is great.

I also enjoy the feel of the RLX steering wheel, meatier and softer to the touch, whereby the TLX is smaller, thinner, and feels like faux leather instead of the softer grade leather on the RLX.

DASS

iTrader: (2)

I have never driven the TLX so my comments may be out of line. However, after driving the TL, and now the RLX, for me the RLX is in a class all itself.

I considered the TLX, but for my use I wanted the bigger more luxurious ride and comfort offered in the RLX. I also like the big road presence of the RLX.

I saw a TLX the other day, and while it is a nice looking car, it just prints too small for my personal taste. But if the big comfy seats, roomier interior, and softer ride of RLX are not a priority for someone, I see absolutely nothing wrong with hoping into a TLX.

Accord90MDX01RLX15

I did several test-drives for the 2015 TLX (Tech and Advance) and RLX (Tech). The TLX is much more fun to drive and has more technology (Tech vs Tech) than the RLX but the RLX is more spacious/ luxurious for me. I bought my RLX (Tech) for only 3K more than the TLX (Advance) that I was planning to buy.

I strongly agree with this quote

Mike_TX

I would take issue with only one thing - the ride is better in the TLX.

Maybe it's the 19-inch wheels on my RLX, or maybe it's the difference in the suspensions, but I immediately noticed the silkier ride when I drove the TLX.

The 2016 RLX supposedly has a fix for the ride issue, but that remains to be seen. A guy I know who has driven one says it's noticeable only on sharp bumps and pavement breaks.

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TSX69

You all may find this thread from November to be helpful:

holografique: RLX/TLX Comparison

miner

I do agree that the ride in TLX is more refined than the RLX - I am comapring a '14 RLX Adv to a '15 TLX Adv. Now, the TLX is my wifes car and to be quite honest my wife does prefer the RLX. I alos beleive the TLX is quicker off the start line but can be reeled in quickly witht he RLX - I get more wheel spin with less throttle on the TLX (Bridgestone vs Michelin?). The RLX should have a moreupscale interior than the TLX for obvious reasons. I paid about 10K more for the RLX than I did for the TLX and I do feel I get 10K worth of difference.

George Knighton

I'm just not as comfortable in the TLX as I am in the RLX. I'm okay if I'm driving, but I wouldn't even fit in the back seats of the TLX.

To be honest, I don't fit in the back of the RLX as well as I fit in the back of the 4G TL, although I'll give the RLX that it has great leg room. Not enough head room for Americans. I'm not all that tall. 6'2", and I can hit my head on the roof of the RLX if I move the wrong way.

Once you've grown accustomed to the different materials in the RLX, you mightn't be happy with the downgrade in materials represented by the TLX, either.

In its price range, I think the TLX is great. But it's surprising to me to see people comparing the TLX to the RLX, because I see huge differences. I've had a TLX Advance (V6 P-AWS) on two occasions now, for extended periods, and I was glad to get back into the RLX.

Mike_TX

I think it's just that different things appeal to different people.

I've owned some classy cars, including a BMW 7-series, an Infiniti M56 (with a 420hp V8), three different BMW 5-series V8's, and a Lexus LS460. Even so, I don't personally find the interior of the TLX to be a big downgrade. It has all the same controls as the RLX, and lacks mainly the leather-clad dash and some caché (which is a personal thing).

If you have issues fitting because of your size, that's another matter. For me, though, I don't see the degree of difference some do.

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4GTLSH-AWD

There is no comparison.....RLX is a whole different animal

DASS

iTrader: (2)

That was my concern with commenting on the thread because I have never personally driven a TLX. My thoughts on the TLX and its ride quality are primarily from watching a ton of YouTube videos and reading the comments of others who have taken it out for a spin.

Like you've said in another post, the bottom line is that people have different taste, and what is appealing to one, may be the very thing that turns another buyer away.

However, IMHO, I do believe Acura has done a good job this time around distinguishing their product line. With the ILX, TLX, and RLX they clearly appear to be targeting different buyers. That has not always been so clear with some of their offerings in the past.

Mike_TX

I completely agree with the part in blue. And that even extends to their SUV offerings.

The only fly in the ointment is technology trickle-down. It's awkward for a lesser model in the lineup to have superior technology or equipment over the flagship model.

I know it would be expensive to rework the RLX's Nav system, transmission, etc., but they really need to do it. The flagship should always have the best available equipment and features.

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hondamore

^^I agree. Acura has been guilty of letting their flagship sedan wither on the vine while they promote and update their "sales leaders" like the TLX and their SUV's. Of course it is smart business to put emphasis on the models that push sales, but ignoring the flagship seems to defy the purpose of the model. It can't be an easy decision for an Acura exec to make to spend millions of dollars updating/reengineering the nav unit etc of the RLX when they are projecting a few hundred units of sales. Then again, if the RLX were always equipped with the latest very best technology available, maybe the sales would get a bump as well????

neuronbob

Threads merged.

"I know it would be expensive to rework the RLX's Nav system, transmission, etc., but they really need to do it. The flagship should always have the best available equipment and features."

I agree with Mike here.

Bladerunner68

Im am the new owner of a TLX Advance Silver w black int. and I love it. I have been waiting for this car basically ever since I bought my 2007 TL and it has not disappointed. I got my car on a dealer special for around $39,500, the RL Advance is almost $62,000 all in. So is the RL $20,000 better than the TLX?, absolutely not. Remember these cars have the same engine and equipment but the TLX is so much more fun to drive and arguably more refined. Other than a larger size and worse gas mileage Im not sure just what that extra $20,000 would be getting me. I do love the RL and it is a great car but not enough to pay an extra $20,000. A $5,000 price premium over the TLX is far more realistic and current RL sales numbers seem to support my view.

George Knighton

If you'd shown genuine interest in the RLX, an astonishingly good value would probably have magically appeared. :-)

neuronbob

I like the TLX, too, it's a great car, and it shows Acura is moving in the right direction.

However, comparing a sale price on a decked out TLX to full price on a fully decked out RLX PAWS is not quite fair. Without trying, you can get a major discount, and in some areas low 50's and even upper 40's are to be had for a PAWS Advance. That makes your nearly $23k difference closer to $10-15k at most.

The extra money gets you a bigger back seat and trunk, better materials, and better fit and finish. I'd say that was worth $10-15k. Maybe not $23k in this car, but $10-15k is probably reasonable.

Just saying.

R. White

So true. I had a dealer general manager admit to me that a realistic price for an RLX is about $7K above a similarly equipped TLX. That's about what I settled for.

holografique

^ agreed! And more proof that Acura needs to move production of this vehicle to the US in an effort to close the cost/sale-price gap on the high cost of the vehicle to be in more in line with its real worth and further increase its value add.

If they can pull it off both financially and operationally, then I believe it will help drive better awareness, improve build quality, and increase market acceptance, all of which should help generate increased sales for the RLX as a whole.

Accord90MDX01RLX15

As I indicated before, I initially had negotiated a good prize for a '15 TLX Advance SH-AWD (true car at 10-20%) graphite/ebony and by end-of-week, I was driving a '15 RLX Tech graphite/ebony (P-AWS w 19" tires, spoiler, IR tint, side moldings, guards, trunk mat) for only 3K more than what I had for the TLX. The space & luxurious interior were able to offset the technology & "fun to drive" experience that I lost. Michelin tires are nicer than the Bridgestone, and the RLX is still fun-to drive.

Mike_TX

I admittedly looked into trading "down" to a TLX this past week. My primary motivation was to get a reduction in my lease payments, given that the TLX has very similar tech and mechanical functionality and I therefore wouldn't be giving up much.

So I had a TLX for an overnighter while they worked on a deal for me at the dealership, and I had a chance to really do an extended test drive on my local "known" roads, and under a variety of driving conditions. And I came away with these impressions that were mostly new to me:

- The 9spd transmission makes for a mixed bag under some driving conditions, as it sometimes pauses while it decides which gear to use. In addition, downshifts from 8th or 9th gear require a 2-4 gear stepdown for good acceleration, so that often takes a second or two to complete.

- Takeoffs from traffic lights aren't as brisk and smooth as the RLX, since the trans tries to continually upshift and acceleration is somewhat lumpy and reduced as a result. (Yes, you can mitigate it somewhat by using Sport or Sport+ mode, but I found those modes less optimal for everyday driving. After all, you can't always leave a stoplight like a drag racer.)

- The TLX I had suffered from a little bit of I/O throttle effect, meaning that in slower traffic or other situations where I was on and off the gas, it seemed almost like there was "slack" in the throttle. That caused a little lurch when I went back on the gas ... sort of a light-switch on/off throttle engagement. That might have been unique to the car I had ... can't say for sure.

- That same throttle issue affected cruise control action to an extent, causing a kind of vague surging effect when the cruise went on and off the throttle. Not a huge issue in town and on flat freeways, but in hilly terrain it could be bothersome.

- The Bridgestone tires appear to make the car a little bit squirmy at freeway speeds. I blame the tires because the steering seemed plenty tight and communicative. But at speed, there was just a slight softness and squishy feel in the wheel.

- Because the windshield is closer to the occupants and slanted more (?), the sunshine dealt a lot of direct heat to me and the wife in the front seat that we've never noticed in the RLX, making for less comfort in hot weather. Even directing the A/C vents on us didn't completely erase the radiant heat.

- The A/C fan also seemed to have to run at a higher (and louder) speed to keep us comfy, and it was only low to mid 80's.

- The seat bottoms in the TLX seemed to be a little shorter than those in the RLX, making for a little less thigh support. Not a biggie during the time I had the car, but on a long day in the saddle it might reduce comfort a bit.

Don't get me wrong - there's a lot about the TLX to like, and for the right price I'd probably go ahead with a trade. It rides far better than the RLX, it gets better mileage, and its Nav system is better. But even setting aside the extra luxury and comfort of the RLX, its road presence and its upscale appeal, it is just a better all-round performer than the TLX IMO.

I personally think a 6spd AT is optimal - it's enough gears to spread the power and road speed, and it's not so many that the transmission has to constantly be shifting and searching for the right gear. Add to that the additional hp of the RLX and its more-immediate throttle response, and it just feels overall more athletic to me.

In the end, the dealer couldn't come up wit a workable deal, so I'm sticking with the RLX for now.

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hondamore

^^Well said. A lot of the extras that the RLX provides over the TLX that justify it's pricing premium aren't overtly obvious (such as a massive difference in engine displacement) but are rather subtle and fall under the "next level of luxury" category. The RLX's state of the art HVAC system and interior fit and finish are excellent examples of the many subtle reasons that the RLX is a luxury sedan with a sporty side and the TLX is a sport sedan with a reasonable amount of luxury.

Bladerunner68

Remember the TLX starts at around $30,000 and the RLX starts at around $50,000 the fact that we are comparing them is kinda strange when you stop to think about it. No one is seriously cross shopping a BMW 2 series with a 5 series or a Mercedes CLA with an E-Class. In my opinion the lines between the TLX and RL have become somewhat blurred because they share so many components, tech and switchgear. I like the new design of the TLX even though it is evolutionary not revolutionary but the RL should be revolutionary, a clear and present stand out with exclusive tech and should only be available in high HP SH-AWD hybrid form. They need to hire a firm like Pininfarina or Bertone to wrap the compelling tech in a sexy exotic halo car design like Kia did when they poached the top designers from Audi. Kia's new design language is stunning and they have enjoyed unparalleled success as a result. I came close to buying a Kia Cadenza because of its absolutely gorgeous design but I could not get over the terrible name. Acura has the technology and reliability they just need some ground breaking design ideas like the amazing new NSX, lets hope that some of those design cues find there way into a future RLX. The RLX it truly a great car but no one outside the Acura community would recognize it going down the street but even my 73 year old mom knows when she sees a Kia Optima driving down the road.
ACURA ARE U LISTENING ?

R. White

Good analysis. My own experience driving a TLX loaner was that the transmission was very rough and that interior was small.

Consumer Reports feels that the most logical competitor for the RLX is the loaded Chevrolet Impala at about $40K.

holografique

the reason we are comparing the RLX to the TLX (and the reason I originally started this thread) is because there are a number of things that the TLX does BETTER than the RLX for roughly $20k less. And IMO, that is a problem. You shouldnt be paying more to get less. That's not the definition of a "flagship".

But alas Ive beaten this dead horse already one too many times.

neuronbob

^^^^^^
We hear you, my friend. The question is whether ACURA hears you.

MisterZDX

Well said. Personally, I would take an RLX any day based on road presence alone. The TLX is a nice little car, but it just doesn't do it for me.

DASS

iTrader: (2)

I am driving a TLX today because my RLX is at the dealer having some TSB (technical service bulletin) work done.

All I can say is that I cannot wait to get back into my RLX.

The TLX is a nice car, but it's too small for my personal taste. When I drive my RLX I just feel like I'm in an executive luxury car. Driving the TLX today gives me a sporty nimble feel.

Because I prefer a bigger car, my old TL felt more luxurious. The TLX is simply too small for me, and doesn't have the road presence I like in a car.

Mike_TX

I have to say I always chuckle when I see people talking about the TLX being too small. Especially TL people. Because with the last gen it was always about how the TL had gotten way too big and fat and flabby. Now it's too small. LOL.

I honestly don't perceive any appreciable difference in the front-seat area of the TLX as compared to the RLX, In both, I have to really stretch hard to reach across and touch the passenger door. Now, the legroom in the back IS shorter, but I don't ever ride back there.

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DASS

iTrader: (2)

Just for the record Mike, I was never one of those people who thought the TL was "way too big and fat and flabby." I personally liked the size of the 4g TL and never desired the 3g TL that seemed to get all the positive press. I believe, in part, it was that positive press that convinced Acura to shrink the TLX by close 4 in to make the exterior more in line with the 3g TL.

When I saw the TLX for the first time I was quite disappointed with its exterior dimensions. So when DASS refers to the TLX being too small I personally am referring primarily to the exterior. I like cars that have a big road presence, and the 4G TL and RLX have it, but the smaller TLX just doesn't work for me.

Acura stretched the width of the RLX by nearly 2in as well, and also increased the wheel base, so when riding in the RLX it gives me a bigger more luxurious feel.

hddnav

Is a Honda Accord more upmarket than a Civic, or simply bigger? Is a BMW 5-series more upscale or just bigger than a 3-series? Is a Toyota Camry just bigger than a Corolla? A Mercedes E-class vs C-class?

Along with the size shrink to economy car proportions, the TLX has also shrink down in road presence, as well as the class of cars it attempts to compete with. The typical RLX buyer, I construe, is probably of a much higher social-economical class and older than the typical TLX buyer, most of whom are 4-cylinder customers. Nothing wrong with this; every product has its place.

As a TL owner, what appealed to me was the road presence and size. No everyone wants a sport compact car designed primarily for single unmarried twenty-somethings.

MisterZDX

the 4G TL and RLX stand out more. The TLX blends in with almost every other sedan on the road. The only way I can tell it's an Acura is by the beak and jewel eyes. From the back (especially from far away) it's hard to tell. I too am disappointed with this car and feel like they tried to move backwards with the design and cater to the 3G crowd. I never understood all the hype surrounding the 3G. The design was okay back then, but very outdated now.

DASS

iTrader: (2)

With this new lineup of cars I believe Acura wanted to clearly distinguish the flagship RLX from the rest of their fleet.

Acura drastically hurt themselves from 2009-2012, not so much with the front grill in my opinion, but by increasing the size of the 4G TL, without equally increasing the size of the RL.

Therefore, the RL suffered because if the truth be told, the TL had more of a big road presence than the flagship RL. In fact, if we were to ask the average consumer they would have thought the TL was the flagship. The RL was simply too small, and blended in too much, to be considered a flagship vehicle.

Most consumers, rightly so, opted to purchase the 4G TL and skip right over the RL as if it didn't exist. Acura had to change this, and I believe with the bigger RLX they have turned the corner and are now headed in the right direction. In conjunction they also, rightly in my opinion, had to shrink the TLX to remove its unspoken flagship status from the mind of the buying public.

I hope the execs at Acura never make the mistake again of making their flagship the same or similar size of their 2nd tier car. In a luxury brand the flagship has to be bigger, have the most advanced technology and feature set, and have an unmistakable road presence.

I like what "hddnav" said, "The typical RLX buyer, I construe, is probably of a much higher social-economical class and older than the typical TLX buyer,"

Without being snobbish in anyway, I believe people who are willing to spend $50k - $70k on a vehicle, do not want a run-of-the-mill car. That buyer is paying a premium for their car and so they expect premium treatment from the dealership and consciously or unconsciously want people to notice.

When comparing the RLX with the TLX there really should be no comparison. RLX is targeting a different buyer than the TLX.

If I had my way, I would not have even put jewel-eye LED lights on the ILX or TLX. I may have given them LED day time running lights, but not like those on the RLX. I also, would have made every RLX SH-AWD standard, and made P-AWS standard on the TLX with SH-AWD an option.

MisterZDX

The TL also had better tech. I thought about purchasing an RL back in 09 when I purchased my TL SH-AWD, but the fact that the RL still used a dvd based navigation system and had a 6 CD changer instead of HDD was a deal breaker for me. Also, the RL reminds me of a 98-02 Accord on steroids. The 4G TL is big, bold, flashy, futuristic, and different....everything I like in a car.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Honda hates us.

2011TL

^^^
Ditto for me. I traded my MDX in May, 2009 with the intent of buying a new RL. I walked out with a '09 TL Tech SH-AWD for $37k. The dealer wanted $50k+ for the RL that had fewer features.

I'll enjoy my TL for another 1-2 years. If Acura can get it's act together on the SH-RLX it will be my next car. If not, I'll move on to another brand.