supraken

iTrader: (1)

So a little bit of background. I started out as a Systems Engineer at a defense company doing high level object oriented design and requirements gathering. After a year or so, moved onto one of the big IT companies to do some middleware stuff for high performance computing, mostly doing c/c++ and some perl.

A few years later had to look for a new job due to family and location, worked briefly at an ecommerce/retail company doing some Java, Javascript, HTML, didn't feel right for me so I switched to my current job

Now I'm a software consultant for a financial software company, not really doing much real programming but more implementation, customization, support. Been there for almost a couple of years but would really like to get away from support. I know we have quite a bit of IT ppl on this board, just wanted to see what everyone's thoughts are regarding what's a potential or logical next step for me? I really want to get away from the support side of things and get into something more stable (less traveling, more regular hours, etc). I thought about getting back into development but haven't done any real languages for 2 years it seems a bit hard to convince the employers.

So far it seems like my resume has been attracting either support or c/c++ type of jobs. Any ideas on what are some other opportunities I can get into? Perhaps QA?

SouthernBoy

Interesting. I got laid off from a major (as in one of our largest) defense contractor last September. I was a software engineer working in the development side of the house. Of course that also means support of the product as well. We knew the layoff was coming two years in advance so it was no surprise and I was ready for it. However, I was not current having worked with C, Perl, some shell scripting, a lot of database which means SQL (Oracle and Informix), and a fair amount of C-tasting C++.

It is hard, but your Java. C++, and OO in general is a big plus. Of course the HTML doesn't hurt either. Do you also have soap and XML to go along with that? Was the platform UNIX/Linux? And by chance. do you have a clearance?

Push your design and requirements analysis. Also, there is no shame in talking about implementation and support. Many times, that is viewed quite well in development shops. QA can be a PITA in my opinion.

Good luck to you. And BTW... I said to hell with trying to find something in IT because I retired.

Slinks

It seems to me like you're two options are back to dev. or to technical sales (being the tech guy on the sales team).

The tech sales might have better upside, but probably also has more stress, pressure, uncertainty. But this sounds like you'd be doing more of the stuff you don't like

It sounds like you're looking to go to a full time dev job. You should study up on your software development -- effective c++, ace the tech interview type books, remember and draw the design details of some of your prior project so you can discuss when asked in an interview.

I don't think you're lack of recent programming will hinder you directly. You just say you tried this support side job out, and realized you missed being a developer.

It might hurt if you're trying to get paid as if you had been developing for your entire career (unless you ace the tech questions and show them you haven't missed a beat).

You're other option is to go to business school and completely change you're career (into project management, or finance).

Slinks

On the QA side (I'm about to make a generalization that may annoy a subset of people). Its really hard to find good QA people because most of them suck -- most of them can do little more than manual testing; something that a high school grad could figure out and become good at; except if you have qa in your title you get paid more than most high school grads. There are some really good ones who are incredible at their job. Most developers dislike testing because they find it to be the boring part of the job. But if you either can't find a dev job, or you actually enjoy QA/ Testing, then you should definitely apply and I don't forsee you having trouble finding a decent job at decent pay.

1Louder

I'm a software engineering manager, so I've been on the hiring end of things for several years now. I will say that the longer you stay out of development, the harder it will be to get back into it. I would strongly caution you on QA or even IT jobs that don't involve development - if that's in fact what you want to do. It just puts even more distance between you and others who are competing for those kind of jobs.

First, I'd go where your skills can remain current. Software development is something you have to keep up with if that's what you want to do. So maybe you don't get your dream job out of the gate, but maybe look for a job at a company that has room to grow once you get your foot back into the door. It's easier to get a better development job if that's what you are already doing.

If you do decide to go tech sales or something like that - that's a bit of a career decision there. I mean, so was management for me and I don't regret it. But I could never go back. Kids out of college know more about modern languages than I do. That's what you want to avoid, if that's what you enjoy doing.

supraken

iTrader: (1)

Thanks, very good advices..

I do like doing dev (I'd like to call it software engineering) because to me it's more than just coding (what I'd consider a programmer). To me a software engineer has to design, some architecting, implement, some QA, as well as support. This spectrum of work makes the daily job way more interesting in my books.

However, let's assume that dev and technical sales are out of the picture. With the brief description of my background, are there any other potential careers (aside getting an MBA) I might be able to get into? I'd like to consider all options since I'm likely to stick with this next job for quite a while and move up from there, I think I'm at the point where job-hopping no longer make sense.

supraken

iTrader: (1)

Care to share your thoughts about being a SE manager? What do you really do as a SE manager?

1Louder

That question would get big laugh if you asked it around the office (i.e., answer: nothing).

I think the specific duties are going to differ depending on the company and the kind of product they build. Where I am, my day is split along three major tasks: project management (planning, tracking, staffing, help facilitate technical hurdles, get help when needed), people (performance reviews, people issues, hiring, firing, etc.), and running the business (cost performance, bidding for new work, proposals, etc.). An average day is a combination of all those things.

I was a SE for 15 years prior to that. I enjoyed it well enough, but looking at the 25+ years I had left, I realized I didn't want to be doing those same tasks that long. Also, I guess I'm one of those people that was decent at the technical but also had the people skills. I find management interesting. I find the business side provides a lot of challenge, just like the technical did. I guess maybe the biggest change is instead of solving interesting technical or engineering problems, you solve interesting project or people problems.

SouthernBoy

Sounds like you have your head screwed on correctly for a SE manager's duties. It has been my experience over the 29 years I was in the business that really good managers were not all that common. More often than not, they were techie types who had slipped into management positions and were no more a manager than a dingbat water boy. My last job had several of those and their management in general was not what I could consider up to par.

I have had the good fortune and honor to have worked under three superior SE (or development) managers. All three of these men were fine examples of what a manager should be - especially one of them. I was a pleasure to have worked for them.

Shalooby

I was in the same boat a little over a year ago, except my development experience was a little older. I'm not too proficient with Java, HTML, etc. but can make a mainframe with Cobol, DB2, IMS, JCL, etc stand up and dance. While there are still plenty of them out there, especially in the data warehouse industry like banking, telecom, and the Freddie - Fannie - Sallie Mae types, I found the work to be stagnant. Banging out the same old routines was getting monotonous. And like others have said, there are college grads with more J2EE experience than I'll ever have. Not only that but competing for a job that utilizes a language that I don't have a lot of experience with would be going backwards. Yes the technology is more advanced but the compensation based on my experience with it wouldn't come close to where I am now.

So, what to do. While I had the same basic attitude about QA (sorry guys) I bit the bullet and interviewed for a position within a test shop. I accepted the offer and to cut a long story short I'm quite happy with what I'm doing now.
No more banging out line after line of meaningless sterile code that only pertains to a sub set of an entire application. The system I'm on now is huge, and as a proper test shop, the test team here knows more about it than the developers do. That is a rarity. Most of the user acceptance and QA shops I've dealt with while on the development side of things did nothing more than duplicate my own unit testing which accomplished nothing. Some of them went so far as to ask for the same test data.

Anyway, there are plenty of other positions within the IT industry. Development is only one. I'm glad to not be hammering out code anymore. The direction I'm going in now is more of a business systems analyst (bullshit artist) and / or systems engineering.