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Microsoft: Windows 8 News and Discussion Thread

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Old Feb 29, 2012 | 02:35 PM
  #201  
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With the dev build of WP7.5, Microsoft warned you would need to restore to your old version, then upgrade to the release version. As it turned out, they were able to upgrade the pre-release build in-place with no restore needed. They could do the same with this.

The sticking point will be that you originally installed using a pre-release product key, now you have to re-register it using a retail product key. Windows 7 has a new licensing manager, so this might be very doable, unlike back in the XP days.
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Old Feb 29, 2012 | 02:44 PM
  #202  
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but what if you don't want Win8 after?
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Old Feb 29, 2012 | 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by doopstr
People eagerly moved to win95 because win 3.1 wasn't all that user friendly. I think the start button actually helped out a lot. You get a new OS, "hmm, WTF is this, where is my stuff? Oh, look, start button, click, whoa!"

Waiting in-line at Egghead Software for Win95 you would have thought that Apple just released the iPhone.
Originally Posted by doopstr
They hyped the shit out of that start button!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VPFKnBYOSI
yeah the start menu was the bees knees 17 years ago but it's not cutting it today.

How is the Start menu used?

Now that we’ve briefly discussed the history of the Start menu, let’s discover how people are actually using it. We thought it would be interesting to see how the usage of the menu has changed over time. Figure 3 reveals the change in Start menu usage across the two versions of Windows.



Fig 3: Change in Start menu feature usage between Windows Vista and Windows 7

It is striking to see how dramatically different the use of the Start menu is in Windows Vista vs. Windows 7. Some of the Special Folders (what we call those items on the right side of the menu) dropped in use by over 50%. Likewise, people accessed pinned items on the Start menu half as often in Windows 7 than they did in Vista. People also access All Programs and the MFU far less often. Finally, we see an 11% drop in how often people are opening the Start menu at all. While 11% may seem like a small number at first, across our hundreds of millions of customers it is eye opening to see such a drop for a universally recognizable element of the Windows interface. We’re not talking about some hidden setting that is tweaked by a minority of people—we’re talking about a fundamental piece of Windows that people are using less and less.

So why the change in how people are using the Start menu? Here’s a hint—it has something to do with that bar at the bottom of your screen that was introduced in Windows 7.

The “Start bar”

The evolution of the Windows taskbar directly impacted the Start menu. What once was locked behind a menu suddenly came closer to you. The most obvious advancements were the introduction of Quick Launch by Internet Explorer 4.0’s Windows Desktop Update in 1997, as well as the more recent taskbar pinning in Windows 7.

Interesting side story: did you know that Quick Launch was initially disabled by default in Windows XP because some people believed the MFU list and pinning in the Start menu would suffice? We saw a volume of evidence to the contrary, and so we reversed the decision (though back then, the data upon which we based these decisions was limited, so we don't really know what a broad variety of customers were doing). What we took away from this was that it was important for you to be able to designate what apps you care about, see them all in one place, and have them be one click away, rather than trying to guess what is important through software heuristics or having important items mixed with less important items.

To really bring this all home, let’s take a look at where people are pinning their apps. Figure 4 reveals that 85% of people have three or more items pinned to the taskbar compared to a mere 23% who have the same number pinned to the Start menu. Although the taskbar and Start menu have different pinned defaults, many people do customize both of them when they want to. The message is clear that the majority of people want most of their apps on the taskbar rather than having to dig into Start.


Fig 4: Number of pinned apps on the Start menu (top) vs. on the taskbar (bottom)

We also know that enthusiasts in particular use their Windows 7 taskbar even more than the Start menu. Keyboard shortcuts like Win + <n> (where n corresponds to the sequence of an application icon on the taskbar) make it even faster for the keyboard experts to instantly launch and switch with the taskbar (and those shortcuts continue to work in Windows 8). When we visit IT pros, it’s not uncommon for us to see a taskbar filled with icons for standard corporate desktops. We even see items like Control Panel pinned to the taskbar to save people a trip to Start. Pinning is also increasing in popularly because you can now also pin websites to your taskbar with IE 9. Fortunately, there’s plenty of room on the taskbar—even at 1024x768 the taskbar can hold 22 small icons. Add the power of Jump lists, and theoretically, you can also have access to 220 files, folders, and sites at that same resolution! This means that for those who wish to just use desktop apps, the taskbar provides the room to quickly access the things you need every day without going to the Start menu.

Speaking of Jump lists, we’ve seen also how pinning Explorer by default to the taskbar and populating its Jump list with common folders makes it even easier to access system folders like Documents (not surprisingly, use of Documents in Start has also dropped, as shown above).

In summary, the taskbar has evolved to replace many aspects of the Start menu. You can even say the taskbar reveals many of the weaknesses of the Start menu and that the menu is no longer as valuable as it once was long ago. Search and access to All Programs are still unique strengths of the Start menu that we know you depend upon, but when it comes to the apps you use every day, one-click access from the taskbar is hard to beat. You, and many like you, are the ones who gave us this strong feedback over the years, which pushed us to make the taskbar a powerful primary launcher and switcher for the desktop. In fact, we sometimes even referred to the taskbar in Windows 7 as the “Start bar,” since it became clear that most people now start with the bar, rather than with the menu.

...

As we wrote about in our post on evolving the Start menu, after studying real world usage of the Start menu through a variety of techniques, we realized that it was serving mainly as the launcher for programs you rarely use. As more and more launching takes place from the task bar, the Start menu looks like a lot of user interface for programs you don't use very frequently. And the Start menu is not well-optimized for this purpose. It affords limited customization, provides virtually no useful information, and offers only a small space for search results. We found that people “in the know” who valued efficiency were moving away from the Start menu, and pinning their frequently used programs to the taskbar so that they could access them instantly in one click. We see this quite a bit on professional workstations where there are set of tools that all fit on the taskbar and are all used regularly—machines used by engineers, designers, developers, information workers, etc.

So, as evidence mounts that the menu hasn’t kept up with the modern way in which we use our PCs today, we've seen a growing interest in replacements for the Start menu (whether for touch, or mouse and keyboard). At the same time, we’ve seen an ever-increasing use of cumbersome notification tray icons (with ever-increasing menus and actions), and a continued interest in desktop gadgets that have yet to realize their potential.

In light of these realizations, we stepped back and reimagined the role of Start in Windows 8. We knew that we already had a powerful launcher for desktop programs in the taskbar. The Start screen is not just a replacement for the Start menu—it is designed to be a great launcher and switcher of apps, a place that is alive with notifications, customizable, powerful, and efficient. It brings together a set of solutions that today are disparate and poorly integrated.
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2...tart-menu.aspx
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/2...rt-screen.aspx
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Old Feb 29, 2012 | 03:14 PM
  #204  
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Oh I haven't been able to get my trackpad working in boot camp. Uninstalled and reinstalled the drivers and still not working. Crappy Apple drivers.....
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Old Feb 29, 2012 | 03:16 PM
  #205  
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Downloading for VM
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Old Feb 29, 2012 | 03:24 PM
  #206  
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I couldn't get it running on Fusion (but couldn't make the older build work either), I installed it on VirtualBox and it booted once. Now it won't get past the "fish". The one time it booted it made my imac sluggish for some reason too.

Whisky, let us know if you have better results.
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Old Feb 29, 2012 | 03:26 PM
  #207  
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I will, trying in OracleVMbox for windows in BC on the Pro.
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Old Feb 29, 2012 | 04:08 PM
  #208  
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works
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Old Feb 29, 2012 | 04:09 PM
  #209  
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and pretty nice, looks a better then the beta.
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Old Feb 29, 2012 | 04:21 PM
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^this is the beta the last one was more alpha.

I got it installed on a spare drive on my main desktop and I'm liking it so far. Def much more usable than the "alpha: developer preview.

It is running good on the desktop but pretty slow on my Mac, I'm starting to get suspicious of a failing hard drive in my mac or windows 7 drivers apple gives you run like shit in 8.

If you click the on the "eye" in a password entry box it allows you to peek at the password you typed in, helpful.
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Old Feb 29, 2012 | 04:22 PM
  #211  
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oh it's got auto-text correction and spell checker in IE10, actually everywhere in Windows 8! Suite!
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Old Feb 29, 2012 | 04:22 PM
  #212  
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Runs fine here, but since its the VM, the "touching" interface is hard to use...
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Old Feb 29, 2012 | 04:23 PM
  #213  
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Like the swiping is hard because it runs off the screen, would be much better in a actual machine. Trying to think of a machine to use now.
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Old Feb 29, 2012 | 04:27 PM
  #214  
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can you dual boot this?
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Old Feb 29, 2012 | 04:29 PM
  #215  
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Originally Posted by Whiskers
Like the swiping is hard because it runs off the screen, would be much better in a actual machine. Trying to think of a machine to use now.
I have my wife's old HP touchscreen laptop. Can I run it on that? Just a couple years old. If I can, where to d/l ISO? Thanks
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Old Feb 29, 2012 | 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Whiskers
can you dual boot this?
yes I'm running dual boot now. It gives you a cool new dual boot menu that you can use a cursor in!

Originally Posted by jupitersolo
I have my wife's old HP touchscreen laptop. Can I run it on that? Just a couple years old. If I can, where to d/l ISO? Thanks
Download is Live!

Get a small 5mb file installer here
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/w...nsumer-preview

or get the ISOs here
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/iso

I think the 5mb installer has the option to put the install files on a USB drive so I'm going to use that
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Old Feb 29, 2012 | 04:44 PM
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xbox companion app is like the remote app for iPad, it allows you to control your 360 from a PC or tablet running 8. Looks pretty good. Still 360 needs to support more HQ video formats for me to replace my appleTV though.
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Old Feb 29, 2012 | 04:56 PM
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Though you shouldn't need to -since metro apps are much like apps in iOS and they suspend automatically in the background and use no system resources when not on your screen, unless running a background task- here's how to "quit" a metro app on windows 8.

Open a metro app, doesn't matter which one and take your cursor and put it all the way at the top of the screen, you'll notice the cursor change to a "hand" icon. Then click and drag all the way to the bottom of the screen and it will quit.

You can also drag it to the right or to the left to snap the metro app to the left or right side of the screen so you can show two metro apps or one metro app and the desktop at the same time.

On a touchscreen you'd just touch the top of the app and drag down or the left or right depending on what you wanted to do with the app.

Last edited by #1 STUNNA; Feb 29, 2012 at 05:09 PM.
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Old Feb 29, 2012 | 04:56 PM
  #219  
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Originally Posted by #1 STUNNA
yes I'm running dual boot now. It gives you a cool new dual boot menu that you can use a cursor in!



Download is Live!

Get a small 5mb file installer here
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/w...nsumer-preview

or get the ISOs here
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows-8/iso

I think the 5mb installer has the option to put the install files on a USB drive so I'm going to use that
We don't use her laptop, should I just download ISO and install it?

Last edited by jupitersolo; Feb 29, 2012 at 05:00 PM.
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Old Feb 29, 2012 | 04:57 PM
  #220  
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Also remember that Windows 8 comes with MSE installed so you don't need to install AV
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Old Feb 29, 2012 | 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by jupitersolo
We don't use here laptop, should I just download ISO and install it?
The 5mb program can download the ISO for you and put it on a flash drive, if you got one lying around larger than 3Gb. that's what I did. Or you can download the ISO at the link above and burn it yourself. It's up to you.
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Old Feb 29, 2012 | 05:03 PM
  #222  
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ISO it is, the smaller files link is having trouble right now. ANd the ISO file is backwards slow right now anyways!
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Old Feb 29, 2012 | 05:12 PM
  #223  
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<iframe src='http://theverge.vid.io/v/a3a66ada-6302-11e1-ab41-123139255418' data-vidio-id='a3a66ada-6302-11e1-ab41-123139255418' width='640' height='360' frameborder='0' webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe><script src='http://assets.theverge.vid.io/player/src/vidio-bootstrap.js'></script>

^After watching this, yeah I think I'm def getting a Windows 8 tablet. Nokia's rumored to be making one and Windows 8 will run on Tegra, OMAP, Qualcomm, and Intel (Clover Trail) SoCs. The next gen Qualcomm S4 looks really good, could go for one of those in a tablet with a hires screen like the iPad 3.

Yeah I'm gonna have two tablets, so what!?
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Old Feb 29, 2012 | 08:48 PM
  #224  
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ugh. My Inspiron Duo has a 7mm HD, so my other HD doesn't fit. Guess this project is put on hold...
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Old Feb 29, 2012 | 08:54 PM
  #225  
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Stunna you might as well bold the entire article since like 90% of it is already...
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Old Feb 29, 2012 | 10:56 PM
  #226  
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I'm liking IE 10, I'd use it full time if I didn't need my add-ons in Chrome.

Shit it's 40% faster than Chrome at Sunspider Java benchmark on my PC

Last edited by #1 STUNNA; Feb 29, 2012 at 11:09 PM.
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Old Mar 1, 2012 | 12:52 AM
  #227  
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NEW Windows Printer Test Page!!!!! What whaaaaat!!!

LOL wasn't expecting that.

It's basically the same thing with a nicer font instead of that 80s font and a different windows logo.
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Old Mar 1, 2012 | 06:32 AM
  #228  
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Stunna, cant get LMI plugin for S2 going on IE10. You?
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Old Mar 1, 2012 | 06:37 AM
  #229  
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Nevermind, got it working.
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Old Mar 1, 2012 | 06:42 AM
  #230  
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Still no way to disable Metro and get start menu back.
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Old Mar 1, 2012 | 11:46 AM
  #231  
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^yes in the registry, it's been posted in here a couple times. It does disable all metro apps and access to the windows store....
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Old Mar 1, 2012 | 11:47 AM
  #232  
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Originally Posted by Whiskers
Nevermind, got it working.
something special I need to know about?
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Old Mar 1, 2012 | 11:49 AM
  #233  
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I got the trackpad halfway working on my MBP! I had to disable the shit apple drivers and use generic drivers and it works but I lose multitouch which makes scrolling almost impossible, two finger click and tap to click.

Better than nuthin but......
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Old Mar 1, 2012 | 11:49 AM
  #234  
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Originally Posted by #1 STUNNA
something special I need to know about?
Im not sure what happened to be honest, it just installed and worked after a bunch of times saying no compatible browsers
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Old Mar 1, 2012 | 12:01 PM
  #235  
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<iframe src='http://theverge.vid.io/v/2d528476-639e-11e1-9df4-12313926bd67' data-vidio-id='2d528476-639e-11e1-9df4-12313926bd67' width='640' height='360' frameborder='0' webkitallowfullscreen mozallowfullscreen allowfullscreen></iframe><script src='http://assets.theverge.vid.io/player/src/vidio-bootstrap.js'></script>
Some of the apps he goes through are still preview and not feature complete.

Last edited by #1 STUNNA; Mar 1, 2012 at 12:05 PM.
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Old Mar 1, 2012 | 12:42 PM
  #236  
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Scratch that! Multitouch scrolling, tap to click and two finger click are now working on my MBP!!!!
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Old Mar 1, 2012 | 01:17 PM
  #237  
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After just reading a few things here and there, I dont think windows 8 will succeed as a desktop OS.

As a tablet OS I think I would consider this over an Ipad, depends on what hardware we'll see and the final release reviews.

I dont think I would upgrade my laptop, but when I get a chance in the coming weeks I'll just try it out.
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Old Mar 1, 2012 | 01:27 PM
  #238  
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task manager now shows startup items like msconfig but unlike msconfig it gives you an impact rating for each item! Very nice!

LmoNk.png
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Old Mar 1, 2012 | 03:36 PM
  #239  
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Disk Defrag run a trim command on a SSD.
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Old Mar 1, 2012 | 03:38 PM
  #240  
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If you use RDP a lot like me then you'll know what's so great about this image!

ft6jX.png
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