BEETROOT

^ yeah, the actual features themselves aren't revolutionary, but go through this for 5 minutes http://www.apple.com/iphone/ and tell me if you really think its comparable to the 3125 (or anything else). I can do all that stuff on my phone, but I have little complaints about everything. t9 sucks, screen is too small for video, no wifi, etc.

Based on Apples track record I'm just figuring that they will do a better job combining all of this stuff in one device than anyone else has. Its not a new idea, just the top of the line for what's out there (IMO, and based on reviews only...obviously no personal experience).

mrdeeno

What track record? The only things they've designed has been computers and ipods. They don't have ANY track record of designing anything that ecompasses media capabilities, phone, and PDA into a personal device of this size, so how can they have any record of doing it better than anyone else?

what phones have they produced before? Motorola, Nokia, SE, etc. have been producing phones for a long time and still have room for improvements in their "integration". And what PDAs has Apple designed before? Blackberry, Palm, etc. has been producing PDAs for a long time, and also still have room for improvements in their "integration". What makes you think a brand new entrant, into not only phones but also PDAs, can do it "better" than anyone else? The only thing they may be able stand above the others is playing music. This device may be better than anything else for music, but I don't think anyone is going to buy this device primarily for phone or PDA capabilities.

Not to mention that they can't even get the naming right without something going wrong...

soopa

then don't buy it! if it's not for you just don't buy it.

you've no hands on experience with it so you can't even review it.

so if you're not interested in it, you have no experience with it, and you have nothing but negative feelings about what it will be... why are you in this thread? go play in your phones thread. go there and talk about how much your phone is better then what you think the iphone is if it makes you happy.

all the Apple-hate is getting tired in here though. it's the same story every time Apple comes out with a new product. those who don't get it hate and hate and hate, yet there's still millions of people out there who think on the same level as Apple's designers and will gobble their products up because, FOR THEM, Apple's products are superior.

nobody is forcing you to buy this thing, so dont.

and yeah, instead of sticking their necks out by naming it something relevant despite the difficulty of doing that they should have just named it something completely ambiguous like Apple iRIZZY like all the other phone manufacturers do.

BEETROOT

Thats what I'm talking about. They make excellent computers and digital audio players, so I'd imagine that level of quality will continue.


I'm buying it primarily for phone/pda functions. Windows Mobile is terrible and so is Palm. It looks like a damn cool phone

The reason I believe Apple can do it better than anyone else is that every other Apple product I own has been remarkably better than the competition. Based on what I've seen so far, iPhone looks damn good.

What makes you think it will fall flat? What problems do you see with it? What does a competing product have that this will not? Keeping in mind, of course, that this is not a business product... MS exchange compatibility and such are not really issues.

GIBSON6594

I agree with that, the iphone and 3125 are not really comparable, really two different purposes alltogether. The iphone a great multimedia device (one of the best i've seen yet, specs wise) and I think it will sell huge for those looking for a multimedia device. I think those looking for a complete PDA package (PIM functions) are better off with a 8525 or Treo 750 type device. It just depends on what you are in the market for.

I do think that if anyone is going to eventually get it right and have that "complete" package, it will be Apple. It's the multimedia that WM can't do well. Once/If Apple get the PIM functions down, they will blow the market away. IMO of course.

BEETROOT

I agree completely. The iPhone probably won't be the best phone, the best mp3/video player, or the best PDA. What it will be is the best combination of the three of those.

ViperrepiV

I can't imagine doing all that on such a small screen with a regular phone keyboard!

ViperrepiV

I don't think people are just hating on apple becuase it is apple....they are just trying to have a discussion about the pros and cons about a product and how popular it may become. Some apple fanboys decalre any product that apple makes the-end-all-and-be-all gadget regardless of what it exactly does, so I guess the apple haters just balance this out.


BTW, I don't really like ipods very much. Format supprot is terrible (WMA and OGG, anyone?), and I don't really think the audio quality is that fantastic (my rio karma has better audio quality than my nano). But it is relatively easy to use and *very* well designed, so i still give it props for that.

I'm sure that this phone will have its fair share of flaws as well (how can a phone not have removeable battery???)...so the people who point out its potential flaws aren't bashing apple, and they're not saying the iphone is crap, they're just trying to figure out where it shines and where it doesn't. Although, i think everyone must keep in mind that this thing can change a lot in six months....for example, i really really really hope that apple makes the battery removable by the time they release it.



Here's my opinion: The iphone is innovative....it uses an input method like no other phone before it, and it approaches the concept of a phone/PDA from a completely different angle....a more consumer friendly angle. In this way, the phone is innovative. However, almost all of the basic functions exist as a package on several other phones, so in this respect, it is merely an improvement. Perhaps this warrants a purchase. Perhaps it doesn't, and this is where people's opinions will differ.

soopa

what exactly do you need from a PIM?

iPhone will integrate with and USE extensions Apple's existing software packages like, for instance, iCal for scheduling and task management. The e-mail client is easily the most usable client in the mobile phone world, from the looks of it. Based of Apple's own Mail.app and similar to Thunderbird.

Beyond that, it looks as though it will use Dashboard Widgets, which means it will integrate with all the amazing stuff thats out there for things like Basecamp for project management. Which means you can interface with your existing web based GTD apps (that is, if you're trully as productive as you think you are).

It seems to me like so many of you are used to living in a Windows world that you think you need the added complexity of horrible GUI design, not realizing it's offering you negative gains in productivity.

This *IS* a "business" product. It's made for the same businesses Apple has catered to all along. Small business and fresh businesses. This is not a device made for legacy systems, legacy users, or enterprise companies.

soopa

I wasn't quoting someone pointing out potential flaws, I was quoting someone making baseless assumptions.

It's not only about what it/you can do, it's about how you do it. Apple is the world leader in UX design. It's not going to be the best in areas it doesn't need to be the best in.

Again, this is a device made for a certain person and if you're not that person then just don't buy it.

I'm defending this product because I really doubted Apple's ability to package so much perfectness into one little package. This device has everything I hoped for and nothing I didn't.

This makes me the target consumer. Removable battery? I haven't removed the battery from a phone since I went swimming with one in July of 2003


The first paragraph of this post from a friend sums it up well:

This earlier post shows just where that sentiment comes from:
http://businesslogs.com/apple/lots_o...e_pictures.php

Apple made a product that has EVERYTHING their fans asked for AND they one-upped them with a revolutionary multi-touch interface. Pinching to shrinking/expanding? FUCKING BRILLIANT.

BEETROOT

I don't think you have been using the slim phones though, have you? The a900 has had some serious battery problems (they only last 6 months), as have some of the other slim phones.

I haven't heard anything about the iPod batteries fading though, so personally I'm not too concerned about it.

soopa

No, I haven't.

But yeah, i go for weeks without charging my 5G iPod Video. I'm not really concerned.

soopa

my point here is, like i keep saying, if it's not for you... opt-out.

it's easy to not buy something.

the iphone will not be perfect, it's a first generation product. it just happens to be a damn revolutionary first generation product. remember the 1G iPod? it was far from perfect, but it changed the world and has gotten better every iteration since and it remains, IMO, the best music player out there if for nothing but the UX alone.

i like this post:
http://www.mikeindustries.com/blog/a...d-in-your-hand

"If many of the 200 patent applications filed in association with this phone are accepted, there is no opportunity to copycat. If a multi-touch interface turns out to be the panacea of the mobile device input problem, then what are other handset manufacturers to do while they are prevented from implementing it on their own? I mean seriously, how would you like to work at Palm, Motorola, Samsung, or LG right now? Those guys must feel like a nuclear bomb hit them."

mrdeeno

So let me get this right, someone who has never touched, used, or fully reviewed a device can have the opinion that he "loves" it, but he can't have the opinion that he "hates" it?

and who says anything about hating? Please tell me where I "hated" on the "iphone" or whatever it will be called.

I have not reviewed it, but I am refuting those who ARE reviewing it and basing the reviews on "track record" and calling it "revolutionary", when there are NO track records to base any kind of reviews on and it has no features except for the all-touchscreen that makes it revolutionary. it may do certain things better than other things, but there are NO revolutionary functions. So unless it has a built in Taser and stapler/stapler remove, it's only "evolutionary" to whatevers out there in the market already.

This could be a great phone, PDA, and music player, and you're right, it's probably not for me. But unlike some Apple "lovers" here, I'm not going to gush about how "great" this phone is going to be without ever seeing it in operation and basing it on history that does not exist.

If Apple puts out a new Ipod, then there is history to base the success of it on. If Apple puts out a new Mac, then there's history to base the success of it on. But when Apple puts out a Phone/Media player/PDA, there's no history for any device like this from Apple.

mrdeeno

And what do you call giving raves about a device and how great its going to be, when you've never had any experience with it before either?

are you telling me you've actually used this thing to be so clear about "how you do it" and that it's perfect for you? How do you know so much more than anyone else about this that your opinion is not a "baseless assumption"?

GIBSON6594

You're secretly in love with William Gates aren't you? Come on admit it, we already know.

GIBSON6594

Screen size is relative to distance, just hold it closer and it's fine. That's why people sit so far back at the movies.

soopa

what im saying is, if you don't like it, don't buy it.

if you're not going to buy it, why are you in a thread about it?

soopa

i'm not an all out Microsoft hater, i'm a huge Xbox fan.

i'm a Windows division hater. i have a Windows PC, it sucks. i have a Windows Mobile Handheld, it sucks. Windows sucks. The way Microsoft manages Windows, sucks.

i think the Xbox division should run the company.

i likely wont be buying an Apple TV because i'm already satisfied with my Xbox being able to do most of the things it can do and then some, just with a slightly less intuitive interface.

Python2121

Apple is coming into a very cut throat, well defined and established market. Sure there were mp3 players before, but they set the standard. This industry requires constant refreshes and price breaks and with the 8525, there are serious, established competitors who are already on the same track. But the reality distortion field works on me, so i

AQUI NO!

with apple is always about implementation and presentation, and they do that better than any one else, no question about it.
This phone was definitely built for mac owners in mind, the use of mac os x, the lack of support for office documents, and lack of third party software support is proof of it, and like soopa said, this phone is not for every one.
Lets just not forget that others have already built phones with similar features and similar form factors case in point the LG K850 and nokia N95.


let the sue happy games begin the Iphone vs lg

mrdeeno

Please point out where I stated that I will unquestionably NOT buy it? Why are YOU making "baseless assumptions" that someone will or will not buy it just from their opinions based on limited information about the phone? Are you telling me that there should be no threads concerning the next NSX or other exotic car, considering that chances are no one in those threads will be buying it so there is no need to discuss it?

I probably won't buy it because it doesn't fit my needs, but that's not the same as having 0% interest. I will probalby check it out once it is on the market and THEN make up my mind whether I will buy it or not. But unlike others, I'm not going to make up my mind before ever seeing a product in person or trying it, just because it's "made by Apple".

If I wasn't interested in it at all, then of course I would not be in this thread. But it just amazes me how based on the SAME information available about a product, that the opinions against a product are "baseless", yet the opinions for it aren't.

soopa

The difference is im largely discussing what we know and what we can see in the videos and BASED on what desktop versions of these Apple applications offer.

You said:

"This device may be better than anything else for music, but I don't think anyone is going to buy this device primarily for phone or PDA capabilities."

There's nothing to base that statement on. Baseless.

mrdeeno

So how comes you aren't quoting the baseless statements that other people have made FOR the phone?

So what are his statements based on?

or

Not every mac owner has an Ipod, and not every Ipod owner has a Mac, so how can you come to the conclusion that most Ipod and/or Mac owners will buy an Iphone? What are you basing your statement that they'll have no problem selling 10million units on?

And there are many other examples of "baseless" assumptions on both sides.

I just wanted to point out the fact that you are selectively ignoring "baseless" assumptions when they agree with your opinion, yet pointing it out when it does not.

soopa

I don't know many Mac owners that don't own an iPod, and those that dont, dont own a music player.

If youre a mac owner, and you need a phone, you'll be buying an iPhone (if you can swing the price of course). If for nothing but the same reason Mac owners cant stand using Windows products, OSX.

97BlackAckCL

iTrader: (6)

By name copyright infringement

AQUI NO!

Something we can finally agree on 100%!!! Too bad MAc and PC owners have an aversion to each other and therefore are biased. (i know i am)

mrdeeno

but then again, this is assuming that you have 2 choices, Mac or Windows.

In the phone market, there are many OTHER choices.

Spending a couple hundred dollars more for a Mac over a PC isn't a big deal, especially if you hate windows, but spending a couple hundred dollars more for a iPhone over any other phone is a big deal unless the iPhone makes a convincing argument not to go with ANY other phone, and even more so when the owner already has an Ipod and has no use for a redundant "media player".

BEETROOT

Let me just throw out that the iPhone is no more expensive than a Treo ($600-700), Blackberry ($500), or even a Blackjack ($500).

Its not any more expensive than similar products on the market.

soopa

As a mac owner who thinks like most mac owners, we'll have to agree to disagree on that.

The iPhone is the only Phone which operates like OSX, because it is OSX. Gestures, Expose, iCal, etc, etc, etc.

Mac lovers are not Mac lovers because they hate Windows, they're Mac lovers because they LOVE OSX.

OSX is what will sell this phone to Mac lovers.

There ARE NO OTHER CHOICES if you're a lover of Apple's design. There's not a single player on the market that can match Apple's design prowess. I say that not only as a mac lover, but as a designer.

The mobile phone market is crowded with cluttered interfaces, aliased text, absent typography, horrible iconography, and over complex experiences.

There's no OSX-like solution. Until now.

soopa

Here's a perfect example of why Apple lovers are Apple lovers and why they will buy the iPhone...

http://www.subtraction.com/archives/...d_for_palm.php

Only Apple is able to exhibit such design forward thinking such as to put typography as a top priority in a mobile phone UI, where it clearly should be.

Instead of using your typical aliased type face, they're using Helvetica. Probably the most sought after sans-serif font in the universe.

Gorgeous.

AQUI NO!

Since when? the prices you are quoting are full price without contract extension; the price of the Iphone is 500-600 with contract extension(hell you can pick up a blackjack or pearl for less than $200 if you look around) which makes the Iphone $200-300 more expensive than any of the phones you listed. Oh, and if any one here paid full price for the Treo, Blackberry or Blackjack you got raped and need to have your head examined (unless you were going for maximum coinage for tax deduction purposes). The only phone i'm aware of that people paid full price for was the razor and only because it was a fashion symbol.

BEETROOT

Ah, my bad. I didn't know that price was with contract extension. That is pricy

BEETROOT

A blackjack for under $200? I've been shopping for a blackjack for three weeks and I haven't found one under $350 yet.

AQUI NO!

http://www.amazon.com/Samsung-i607-B...TF8&s=wireless

$59 through amazon, but u'll need to create a new contract or add it as a second line

BEETROOT

I already have a Cingular contract, just shopping for the phone by itself.

ViperrepiV

how is that possible? I went to cingular today and the store had it for $199 with a 2-year contract....where is amazon getting its other discounts from?


the iphone btw, is the only reason i'm sticking with cingular. I'm out of contract right now, and I lust for the signal strength of verizon.

ViperrepiV

Um, how about Verizon's UI?



















i kid, i kid

AQUI NO!

not sure, my guess is they are buying the phones directly from the manufacturer and getting a kick back from cingular for each contract they sell.

BEETROOT

When you buy a phone at a Cingular store or any phone sales place, the guy selling you the phone gets paid a commission, usually $100-$200. Amazon just takes that money off the price of the phone.