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Apple is going to Intel Processors!

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Old 06-10-2005, 08:09 AM
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this thread shouldnt of passed 2 pages... you guys are fucking nerds.

im out
Old 06-10-2005, 08:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Jaydef03
this thread shouldnt of passed 2 pages... you guys are fucking nerds.

im out
good

don't come back
Old 06-10-2005, 08:17 AM
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waahhh wahhh, apple is going to have an intel chip! this is just absurd! we must unite and form an allegiance against apple corp. what is billy thinking selling his chips to his rivalvry, Apple. wahhh

"in this light, you look like David Duchovany"
Old 06-10-2005, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Jaydef03
waahhh wahhh, apple is going to have an intel chip! this is just absurd! we must unite and form an allegiance against apple corp. what is billy thinking selling his chips to his rivalvry, Apple. wahhh

"in this light, you look like David Duchovany"
i thought you were done?

please make the above your last post in this thread unless you have something useful to add.

thanks.
Old 06-10-2005, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Zapata
hmmm, so offer your analysis.....interested to see what you say. It's speculation but atleast he offers more than the 1-2 window that everybody else is saying.
Here some of my comments:

Question 2: What happened to Apple's 64-bit operating system?

OS X 10.4 -- Tiger -- is a 64-bit OS, remember, yet Intel's 64-bit chips -- Xeon and Itanium -- are high buck items aimed at servers, not iMacs. So is Intel going to do a cheaper Itanium for Apple or is Apple going to pretend that 64-bit never existed? Yes to both is my guess, which explains why the word "Pentium" was hardly used in the Jobs presentation. Certainly, he never said WHICH Intel chip they'd be using, just mentioning an unnamed 3.6-Ghz development system -- a system which apparently doesn't benchmark very well, either (it's in the links).
Actually, Tiger performs absolutely pretty bad in the server market due to some threading issues. Check out this analysis: http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2436

Intel makes a killing in the server market with the Xeon processor. Their move to 64-bit chips was more of a reaction to AMD than a true need. And MS has already released a 64-bit OS as well, so that Apple advantage is null. Lastly, Itanium is not a X86 chip - so all of the work to migrate Apple apps to X86 code would be for nill. This is mere speculation without much to back it up.

Question 3: Where the heck is AMD?

If Apple is willing to embrace the Intel architecture because of its performance and low power consumption, then why not go with AMD, which equals Intel's power specs, EXCEEDS Intel's performance specs AND does so at a lower price point across the board? Apple and AMD makes far more sense than Apple and Intel any day.
The Pentium-M is an Intel processor that I'm sure was very attractive to Apple for their Powerbooks. And their processor roadmap in this segment surpasses AMD's in regards to the processing power / watt. Lastly, most agree the major reason why Apple went with Intel is due to manufacturing capacity. AMD at the moment is selling every chip it can build and has no excess capacity.


Then what is the driving force?

Microsoft.
This is where I believe the biggest gaps in his arguments come to light. IMO, it would be very telling if MS sensed a threat by pulling software support for Apple and beginning a PR assault. MS and Apple were always convenient partners - MS in the past propped up Apple in order to keep the monopoly breakup threats away. Apple had a low volume, high margin business model. They were the perfect competitor for MS, and I believe it will continue in a similar fashion in the future. MS is much more scared about Linux and Open Source than Apple.


The vaunted Intel roadmap is nice, but no nicer than the AMD roadmap, and nothing that IBM couldn't have matched. If Apple was willing to consider a processor switch, moving to the Cell Processor would have made much more sense than going to Intel or AMD, so I simply have to conclude that technology has nothing at all to do with this decision. This is simply about business -- BIG business.
As I stated before, it's widely stated that it came down to capacity. IBM wasn't releasing processors with clock speeds Apple wanted or in enough quantity. AMD doesn't have the excess capacity avaiable now to satisfy Apple's need, so Intel made a great choice.

Another clue comes from HP, where a rumor is going around that HP selling iPods could turn into HP becoming an Apple hardware partner for personal computers, too.
Again, it's only a rumor, but I have my doubts. Apple makes their high margins on hardware, not software. Allowing another companies to sell hardware at a lower cost will place pressure on Apple to bring down their prices as well, negating their high margin hardware business. I can only see this happening if HP just rebadges Apple hardware like the iPod.

Microsoft comes into this because Intel hates Microsoft. It hasn't always been that way, but in recent years Microsoft has abused its relationship with Intel and used AMD as a cudgel against Intel. Even worse, from Intel's standpoint Microsoft doesn't work hard enough to challenge its hardware. For Intel to keep growing, people have to replace their PCs more often and Microsoft's bloatware strategy just isn't making that happen, especially if they keep delaying Longhorn.
Here he begins to show his MS bias and offers no facts to base his statement that Intel hates MS. Lastly, it's not the OS that drives challenges to the hardware, but the software that runs on the OS.


Intel is fed up with Microsoft. Microsoft has no innovation that drives what Intel must have, which is a use for more processing power. And when they did have one with the Xbox, they went elsewhere.
Again, the MS bias shows here. MS has no innovation? Yes, their OS has been delayed, and Apple exceeds MS on this point, but what about the Media Center OS? That stresses the hardware and requires a fast processor. How about business productivity tools? MS is more than just an OS software business. Lastly, he is completely wrong on the Xbox statement. MS went with IBM because they have the capacity and capability to make custom processors for the gaming market. In regards to Intel, the offered their Pentium processor like, that while powerful, is not ideal for console gaming needs. There is a reason why all 3 game companies (Sony, MS, Nintendo) went with IBM.


This scenario works well for everyone except Microsoft. If Intel was able to own the Mac OS and make it available to all the OEMs, it could break the back of Microsoft. And if they tuned the OS to take advantage of unique features that only Intel had, they would put AMD back in the box, too. Apple could return Intel to its traditional role of being where all the value was in the PC world. And Apple/Intel could easily extend this to the consumer electronics world. How much would it cost Intel to buy Apple? Not much. And if they paid in stock it would cost nothing at all since investors would drive shares through the roof on a huge swell of user enthusiasm.

That's the story as I see it unfolding. Steve Jobs finally beats Bill Gates. And with the sale of Apple to Intel, Steve accepts the position of CEO of the Pixar/Disney/Sony Media Company.
Again, wishful thinking, but let's get back to reality. As I said before, if MS really felt threatened, you would see them pull all software support from OSX (Office, etc..) and begin a nasty PR campaign. In fact, you see the opposite.
Old 06-10-2005, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Jaydef03
waahhh wahhh, apple is going to have an intel chip! this is just absurd! we must unite and form an allegiance against apple corp. what is billy thinking selling his chips to his rivalvry, Apple. wahhh

"in this light, you look like David Duchovany"
There's not a whole lot of waahh, waahh going on since we really have no idea how the heck this is going to play out in the actual market. It's clear that since Apple is a hardware company that something is going to give in the compatibility category with respect to all the beige boxes out there. The real concern is seeing Apple and their innovation pass the way of the dodo. I don't give a crap what processor they use, just keep on producing good products and keep on prodding the computer industry forward with innovations.
Old 06-10-2005, 08:31 AM
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Cusdaddy,
MS innovates little. Media center PC? You jest....
Old 06-10-2005, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Zapata
Cusdaddy,
MS innovates little. Media center PC? You jest....
Actually, I find the Media Center Edition very refreshing and innovative. As I said before, Apple has the upper hand with innovation lately, but I think Media Center is a nice piece of software. It's not the UI itself, but the possibilities it opens with add-on devices. It even will link to the X360. Check out the review for more information:

http://www.anandtech.com/multimedia/showdoc.aspx?i=2240

"Media Center Edition continues to be the coolest looking highest performance PVR/DVR (with a fast enough system) out there on the market today. The interface continues to be clearly ahead of the competition even with companies like SnapStream closing in on them. The navigation through the beautiful 10' UI is as natural as you can get; the learning curve on the Media Center interface is probably the easiest there has ever been in any Microsoft OS, which is extremely important for success in the consumer space. From a product standpoint, Microsoft has built the foundation for perfection with Media Center Edition, and the 2005 version simply adds a 2nd floor to the building."
Old 06-10-2005, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by cusdaddy


Again, wishful thinking, but let's get back to reality. As I said before, if MS really felt threatened, you would see them pull all software support from OSX (Office, etc..) and begin a nasty PR campaign. In fact, you see the opposite.
agreed...

However, you gotta figure at least an eyebrow was raised at the Redmond campus. It's pretty much conceded by everyone that OS X does it better than Windows. Let's face it, the PC is still what everyone uses today. It's not a media center. Nor will it be in the next few years.

You put a superior OS on hardware that most people are familiar with... And oh, by the way... If it doesn't run natively in OS X, that's OK because WINE will be available to run all WIN32 apps natively, with no speed hits.

No spyware, no virii (until people actually give a shit about the Mac and start writing the code )... By a Mac... Get a superior OS, run Mac apps and bring over your windows stuff too. All on hardware that seems to have a future.

Again, they must have raised an eyebrow.
Old 06-10-2005, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Scrib
agreed...

However, you gotta figure at least an eyebrow was raised at the Redmond campus. It's pretty much conceded by everyone that OS X does it better than Windows. Let's face it, the PC is still what everyone uses today. It's not a media center. Nor will it be in the next few years.

You put a superior OS on hardware that most people are familiar with... And oh, by the way... If it doesn't run natively in OS X, that's OK because WINE will be available to run all WIN32 apps natively, with no speed hits.

No spyware, no virii (until people actually give a shit about the Mac and start writing the code )... By a Mac... Get a superior OS, run Mac apps and bring over your windows stuff too. All on hardware that seems to have a future.

Again, they must have raised an eyebrow.
I agree with you as well. I'm sure it raised a few eyebrows as well, but I think it would have been a bigger issue of Apple decided to release OSX on all X86 hardware.

I don't think this works out for either party at the moment though. First of all, Apple will lose out on their high margin hardware business. In addition, having to support open-ended hardware opens up another can of worms - MS doesn't employ an army of programmers that sit around doing nothing. Creating a stable OS with so many variants of hardware to support is no easy undertaking. In addition, having to support a secure platform is another challenge.

Apple has it easier being the little guy as they don't have the virus, worm and exploit issues that could open up if their market share increased significantly. Many of MS's security problems are their own fault, but I'm sure OSX would have issues as well if they were 50% of the market.

My long point is that having Apple compete directly with MS doesn't make much sense for either party at the moment.
Old 06-10-2005, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by cusdaddy
I agree with you as well. I'm sure it raised a few eyebrows as well, but I think it would have been a bigger issue of Apple decided to release OSX on all X86 hardware.

My long point is that having Apple compete directly with MS doesn't make much sense for either party at the moment.
yih

Apple would dig their own grave by releasing OS X on all x86 hardware. It goes back to the clone attemp on PPC in the mid-90s. If that would have continued. It would have been game, set, match for Apple.

Unless you wanna gamble on the iPod bringing home the bacon.

lol
Old 06-10-2005, 09:56 AM
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@ cusdaddy.

You took that article wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too personally.

Everyone is just making guesses right now, grasping for straws. We have no idea how this thing will play out and Cringley was just offering a fresh, albeit extremist, perspective.

The moral of the story is could it, would it, be possible that Intel has aspirations of buying Apple? Sure could.

It is WELL KNOWN fact that Intel and Microsoft have had a love hate relationship throughout the years.

Intel's strategy and Microsoft's strategy simply don't sync.

Nevertheless, would they get into the software bizz? I doubt it.

Although, it's completely feasible that Job's (who is an absolute loon - a brilliant loon) would like to put one over on his old pal Billy. Job's has made some pretty destructive movements with Apple before.

Job's focus is on Hollywood.

Whether his focus is ruining Apple to secure his crown atop the Disney/Pixar megolith, or using Apple as a tool to bring Hollywood to the desktop, we don't know.

Realistically though, there isn't that much news here. This could be simply a switch of processors, nothing more. We don't know.

I just know I wouldn't put anything past the guy.
Old 06-10-2005, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by soopa
@ cusdaddy.

You took that article wayyyyyyyyyyyyy too personally.
If you look back, I stated that the article was silly and that was all I wrote. Zapata then asked for my reasoning behind why the author's arguments were flawed, so I obliged...

Personally, I can pretty much care less about this entire situation as you can tell by my lack of posts in this thread up to this point. I'm much more excited about the console processors (Xenon/Waternoose, Cell, etc..).

Last edited by cusdaddy; 06-10-2005 at 10:23 AM.
Old 06-13-2005, 09:23 AM
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http://news.com.com/Whats+really+beh...3-5742034.html

What's really behind Apple-Intel alliance?

By John Markoff

Story last modified Sat Jun 11 11:20:00 PDT 2005


Click Here

SAN FRANCISCO--Nearly a quarter-century ago, Apple Computer ran a snarky ad after its onetime rival encroached on its territory: "Welcome, IBM. Seriously." This week, however, Steven Jobs had a different message for Big Blue, which had since become a chief ally: "Goodbye. Seriously."

Jobs, 50, a co-founder of Apple, is famously brash and mercurial. Even so, the Apple faithful--not to mention IBM itself--were caught by surprise by Apple's decision to end its 14-year relationship with IBM and team with Intel for its computer chip needs.

The buzz that began Monday among developers, bloggers, analysts and Apple followers trying to guess Jobs' true designs has not let up. After all, Jobs is a legend in no small part because he defied the monster combination that is Wintel--as the digerati call the Windows and Intel alliance--and lived to talk about it.

Apple's decision in the 1980s to use a different chip from the one put in most personal computers "fit in with the idea of Think Different," Stephen Wozniak, who founded Apple with Jobs in 1976, said in an e-mail exchange. "So it's hard for some people to accept this switch."

So what could a Macintel possibly hope to accomplish?

Potentially, quite a lot. In striking the deal, Jobs, Apple's chief executive, has opened a range of tantalizing new options for his quirky company.

Many people in the industry believe that Jobs is racing quietly toward a direct challenge to Microsoft and Sony in the market for digital entertainment gear for the living room. Indeed, Sony's top executives had tried to persuade Jobs to adopt a chip that IBM has been developing for the next-generation Sony PlayStation.

An Intel processor inside a Macintosh could put the vast library of Windows-based games and software programs within the reach of Mac users--at least those who are willing to run a second operating system on their computers.

Moreover, having Intel Inside might solve an important perception problem that has long plagued Apple in its effort to convert consumers who are attracted to the company's industrial design, but who have stayed away because the computers do not run Windows programs.

There is an immediate risk in the tie-up with Intel, however: Jobs could soon find himself trapped if his best customers stop buying IBM-based Macintoshes while they wait for more powerful Intel-based systems, which are likely to begin arriving in January 2006.

Complete coverage
Apple's new core
Read all of News.com's stories on Apple's dramatic decision to switch to Intel processors.
"There is going to be a long wait," said Mark Stahlman, a Wall Street analyst at Caris & Company. The power-conserving 64-bit Intel chips that Apple is counting on to rejuvenate its laptop products will not be available until early 2007, he pointed out.

In an interview, Jobs rejected the notion that Apple might suffer from what is known as the "Osborne Effect," a term that describes the fate of the computer pioneer Adam Osborne whose firm went bankrupt when he announced a successor to his pioneering portable computer before it was available.

At Apple's Worldwide Developers Conference on Monday, Jobs talked of a transition that would appear almost seamless to customers. "As we look ahead we can envision some amazing products we want to build for you and we don't know how to build them with the future PowerPC road map," he said.

How the deal came to be
Nothing was seamless about how the deal with Intel came together.

Several executives close to the last-minute dealings between Apple and IBM said that Jobs waited until the last moment--3 p.m. on Friday, June 4--to inform Big Blue. Those executives said that IBM had learned about Apple's negotiations with Intel from news reports and that Apple had not returned phone calls in recent weeks.

Each side disputes what led to the breakup. People close to IBM said pricing was a central issue, while Jobs insisted on stage Monday that IBM had failed to meet promised performance measures.

On stage, Jobs noted that he had promised both a 3-GHz Macintosh as well as a more powerful PowerPC-based portable computer, promises that he had not been able to deliver.

In the end, Jobs was given no choice but to move his business to Intel, when IBM executives said that without additional Apple investment they were unwilling to pursue the faster and lower-power chips he badly needs for his laptop business.

"Technical issues were secondary to the business issues," said an executive close to the IBM side of the negotiations. Because the business was not profitable, IBM "decided not to continue to go ahead with the product road map."

But Jobs disputed this assessment, simply stating that IBM had failed to meet its technology road map. The issues in the end, he said, came down to speed and the absence of a chip that consumed less electricity than traditional processors designed for PC's.

"As soon as I heard Steve say that the factor where Intel's road map was superior was processing power per (watt) I knew right away that it was exactly what I have been reading and saying and so have many others, that this is the real key to the future of high performance computers," Wozniak wrote.

As it happens, Intel's was not the only alternative chip design that Apple had explored for the Mac. An executive close to Sony said that last year Jobs met in California with both Nobuyuki Idei, then the chairman and chief executive of the Japanese consumer electronics firm, and with Kenichi Kutaragi, the creator of the Sony PlayStation.

Kutaragi tried to interest Jobs in adopting the Cell chip, which is being developed by IBM for use in the coming PlayStation 3, in exchange for access to certain Sony technologies. Jobs rejected the idea, telling Kutaragi that he was disappointed with the Cell design, which he believes will be even less effective than the PowerPC.
Now that Jobs has broken with IBM, however, Apple is free to pursue a potentially intriguing consumer electronics strategy with Intel.

Now that Jobs has broken with IBM, however, Apple is free to pursue a potentially intriguing consumer electronics strategy with Intel.

Intel has been looking for ways to get its chips into devices that can compete with game consoles as living-room entertainment hubs. In fact, all three next-generation video game machines made by Microsoft, Nintendo and Sony are based on IBM chips. And analysts say that both Microsoft's Xbox 360 and the Sony PlayStation 3, scheduled to arrive next spring, will be positioned as home media hubs in addition to being video game machines--and priced far lower than the Intel-powered, Windows Media Center PC's that are also aimed at the living room.

Should the new consoles find wide acceptance as broad-based entertainment engines, Intel will need to respond--and one attractive alternative would be an inexpensive Macintosh Mini based on an Intel processor, able to run the vast library of PC games.

Before he can set his sights on that new market, Jobs faces the task of shoring up his base, his customers and developers. On Monday, he made the case to the software designers who must be willing to rewrite their software for the new Macintel world.

"The reason people buy Mac is the software, and I think the real fun is yet to come," said Scott Love, the president of AquaMinds, a software concern in Palo Alto that sells a Macintosh program called NoteTaker used by writers, researchers and students. "We'll be able to develop a program that will just work on both IBM and Intel-based computers."

Even more important will be Jobs' ability to persuade the Macintosh faithful to join him in his journey from IBM to Intel. That is where he has an advantage over virtually every other executive.

"He is still committed to the idea of an Apple culture," said Peter Schwartz, the co-founder and chairman of the Global Business Network, a consulting firm in Emeryville, Calif. "It is the counterculture to the dominant Windows culture."

Indeed, Jobs has always set himself apart from other corporate executives. After all, which other American business executive would have thought to name the holding company for his executive jet airplane "Marmalade Skies"?

Steve Lohr contributed reporting from New York for this article.

Entire contents, Copyright © 2005 The New York Times. All rights reserved.
Old 06-16-2005, 04:37 AM
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I should mention that I know of someone with an x86 copy of OSX. He is removing the internal ID number and then handing me a copy for evaluation. I'll let you guys know in a review how it turns out. Should be getting it in the next week or so.

And NO, this is NOT the fake ISO file floating around on P2P with Goatse as a startup page
Old 06-16-2005, 06:03 AM
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oh well let us know how it the software is once you get it.
Old 06-16-2005, 07:25 AM
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I agree. Wow
Old 06-16-2005, 09:59 AM
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pass that shit along Mr Ken!
Old 06-16-2005, 11:47 AM
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http://www.eweek.com/print_article2/...=154139,00.asp

'Mactel' Desktops May Offer Triple-Threat OS
June 15, 2005
By John G. Spooner
Apple won't stand in the way of people who want to run Windows on its forthcoming Intel-processor Macs. But whether or not users will be able to run Windows directly on the machines is still a mystery.

Apple Computer Inc. last week announced plans to begin selling computers based on Intel Corp. processors by June 2006. ADVERTISEMENT

While Apple developers initially looked upon Apple's choice to move to Intel processors with mixed feelings, the ability of the new Macs to also run Windows—a practice long since adopted by some Mac users who run virtualization software such as Microsoft Virtual PC—may be the fulcrum for the company to gain some new customers, ranging from computer enthusiasts to businesses.

So far Apple hasn't discouraged the idea of running Windows on its forthcoming Intel gear. Meanwhile, Microsoft, sources familiar with the company's plans said, is considering how and whether to support Windows on the forthcoming Apple hardware as well.

Although it has no plans to license its OS X to other PC makers, such as Dell Inc., Apple will not prevent Windows and applications that run on the operating system from working on its future Intel-based Macs, company executives said.

That raises the possibility of companies or individuals creating dual-boot Mac OS/Windows machines in the future. However, many of the details of what it will take to allow Windows to operate directly on "Mactel" hardware, including Apple's specific choices of Intel hardware and its software driver model, are still shrouded in secrecy.

"Apple doesn't plan to sell or support Windows," said Brian Croll, Apple's director of software product marketing, during an interview at the company's Worldwide Developer Conference last week. But, he said, "We're not planning anything on the hardware side that would preclude it from running."

Croll declined to elaborate on Apple's Mactel hardware or software plans.

"The focus right now is [on letting] our developers understand that they have to develop universal binaries" that work for PowerPC and Intel chips, he said.

Apple is expected to start by using Intel's Pentium M chip, and to use EFI (Extensible Firmware Interface) versus a standard BIOS for waking up its processor and other hardware bits. But it has yet to detail whether it will use off-the-shelf Intel processors and chip sets or take another route.

Right now, the company uses standard IBM PowerPC 970FX chips and designs its own chip sets for them, analysts say. Having details on Intel's hardware plans in hand, along with details on the software drivers for the systems, will be vital to getting Windows to run natively on Mactel hardware.

Read more here about why Apple is expected to use Intel's Pentium M chip in its new computers.

Running Windows as "a primary OS on [Mac/Intel] hardware is going to require OS support at the driver level. There may or may not be BIOS issues and that sort of thing," said Dean McCarron, analyst with Mercury Research. "Going off the assumption that the [Intel] Mac hardware is not a PC—that it's their own layout hardware-wise—in order to make Windows run on that, it's going to have to have the appropriate drivers."

This means that supporting Windows on Mactel would require Microsoft Corp. or others to gain in-depth knowledge of the Apple hardware, McCarron said. Apple would have to weigh the potential benefits of making its machines somewhat more attractive versus risking helping people who seek to use Mac OS X on other hardware.

Microsoft executives have already conducted internal meetings on what Apple's move to Intel could mean. Microsoft's thinking, according to sources familiar with its plans, is although Apple faces the potential for an initial dip in shipments following its processor switch, it ultimately could recover to gain a couple points in market share.

Thus it would seem like a simple decision for Microsoft to support Windows running natively on Apple hardware, given the software giant's interest in boosting Windows' market share. But there are several potential hang-ups, sources familiar with the company's plans said. If Apple uses non-standard hardware, such as chip sets or unique software drivers, it might not be cost-effective for the software giant to support Windows for Intel-based Mac, the sources said.

Indeed, Apple "could opt to make it (legally) impossible (through hardware or licensing, for example) to run Windows natively on their Intel hardware," said Peter O'Kelly, an analyst with Burton Group, in an e-mail. "I think that would ultimately be perverse and counterproductive, but weirder things have happened. Perhaps it will end up being passive support, as Sun has done with their Windows Certified servers—but for which Sun won't directly sell Windows Server."

Even if full hardware support isn't offered, there's a fallback position for more enterprising Mactel owners. Virtualization technology built into Intel chips—desktop Pentium 4 chips will sport built-in virtualization this year and the Pentium Ms will gain it next—will allow the machines to be partitioned to run numerous different types of software at the same time. Thus, there is no reason the machines couldn't run Windows or Linux and all of the associated applications on top of Mac OS X.

Click here to read Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols' commentary arguing that Apple's Intel move threatens Linux and Longhorn desktops.

"In theory, you could run Windows on top of Mac OS, which is how it works on Mac today with Virtual PC," McCarron said. "The difference is, with hardware virtualization, you'd be running at almost full speed. By and large you'd end up with a full-speed virtual system."

Although it's unlikely that an individual or a business would buy an Intel-based Mac and wipe its operating system just to install Windows, the capability could woo enthusiasts who might prefer Apple's designs but still want to run Windows. It could also make it easier for others, such as educational institutions, government agencies, and small and midsize businesses, to choose Apple hardware.

The company has shipped about 3 million Macs in the last few years—it shipped nearly 3.3 million units in its fiscal year 2004, according to its annual report—so even a small increase could boost its fortunes.

"The enthusiast will buy it because it's Apple," said Leslie Fiering, an analyst at Gartner Inc. However, "We think there will be a small cottage industry on hacking [Apple hardware] to run Windows on it," she said.

But, even with Windows on board, don't count on an upswing of sales to big business, Fiering said.

"Apple has been pretty explicit in saying that it's not going to invest in supporting businesses [by offering things like PC life-cycle management]," she said. "It's just not going to do it."

Editor's Note: Mary Jo Foley and David Morgenstern provided additional reporting for this story
Old 06-16-2005, 02:15 PM
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I think the main issue with X86 OS X is going to be drivers.

If Apple is only making drivers for Apple hardware how will it run on other motherboards? Prey for opensource drivers?
Old 06-16-2005, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by doopstr
I think the main issue with X86 OS X is going to be drivers.

If Apple is only making drivers for Apple hardware how will it run on other motherboards? Prey for opensource drivers?
I'll bet OSX supports Intel chipsets and ATI video cards. You could build a machine that mirrors Apple's hardware and it should run. Throw in a few hacks/3rd party drivers and you've got a cheap Apple.
Old 06-16-2005, 02:27 PM
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I can PROMISE you that you will not be able to build an identical Dell PC and install OS X out of the box. Allowing this will kill Apple.

They require hardware sales. So there will be a ROM, etc on the mobo. This is a fact.
Old 06-16-2005, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Scrib
I can PROMISE you that you will not be able to build an identical Dell PC and install OS X out of the box. Allowing this will kill Apple.

They require hardware sales. So there will be a ROM, etc on the mobo. This is a fact.
I agree.. on the other hand, it will be done anyway by some enthusiasts on their own.
Old 06-16-2005, 03:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Scrib
I can PROMISE you that you will not be able to build an identical Dell PC and install OS X out of the box. Allowing this will kill Apple.

They require hardware sales. So there will be a ROM, etc on the mobo. This is a fact.
Absolutely. Apple needs those hardware sales for profits. It's kinda like the discs that Dell bundles with their software -- it does a BIOS check. Not a Dell product, the product won't install.

But that won't stop people from making hacks to bypass the ROM check, etc.
Old 06-16-2005, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Ken1997TL
I agree.. on the other hand, it will be done anyway by some enthusiasts on their own.

yih just like teh h^X0rs that pirate winblowz...


Interesting blurb from Michael Dell... Dell and Jobs pretty much hate each other, so this is rather interesting...

In a Fortune.com article, David Kirkpatrick talks about a recent interview with Michael Dell, CEO of Dell Computers.

So I emailed Michael Dell, now the company's chairman, and asked if he'd be interested in the Mac OS, assuming that Apple CEO Steve Jobs ever decides to license it to PC companies. (For now, Jobs says he won't.)

"If Apple decides to open the Mac OS to others, we would be happy to offer it to our customers," Dell wrote in an email. It's the first time any PC industry executive has openly shown enthusiasm for selling machines with Apple's software. Though that's all Dell would say for the record, I suspect his interest is not unknown to Jobs. So, as I said in this column last week, the ball is in Jobs' court.

Steve Jobs has made it clear that Apple is a hardware company, not a software company, and doesn't want to market the Mac OS as a standalone product for fears it would lose the "total package" integration provided by a closed-loop system.
Old 06-16-2005, 04:32 PM
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It must be getting really cold in hell.

http://www.fortune.com/fortune/fastf...072719,00.html

Dell Says He’d Sell Apple’s Mac OS
For the first time, a PC player publicly welcomes the notion of selling machines loaded with Apple’s software.
FORTUNE
Thursday, June 16, 2005
By David Kirkpatrick


Michael Dell is interested in licensing Apple's Mac OS.

I've mentioned several times in the past few months that executives from several PC companies have told me of their interest in Apple's Mac OS X operating system. Sadly my sources would not let me attribute these assertions; PC executives are pretty leery of offending Microsoft, which holds enormous power over their businesses. So, many readers have challenged me on this point.

But Dell (the company) has for several years fearlessly—and lucratively—sold servers loaded with Linux, the operating system Microsoft reviles and dreads. And as the industry's top dog it wields more bargaining power with Microsoft than other PC-makers. So I emailed Michael Dell, now the company's chairman, and asked if he'd be interested in the Mac OS, assuming that Apple CEO Steve Jobs ever decides to license it to PC companies. (For now, Jobs says he won't.)

"If Apple decides to open the Mac OS to others, we would be happy to offer it to our customers," Dell wrote in an email. It's the first time any PC industry executive has openly shown enthusiasm for selling machines with Apple's software. Though that's all Dell would say for the record, I suspect his interest is not unknown to Jobs. So, as I said in this column last week (and in an article in the new issue of FORTUNE), the ball is in Jobs' court.

Dell's wasn't the only email I got last week. Scores of letters came in reacting to my article suggesting that Apple's move to Intel could usher in a new era of success.

A number of readers said it made little sense for Apple to license its OS to the PC universe, because one of Apple's advantages is that it has complete control of the specs for both the hardware and software in Macintoshes. "Having to support legacy hardware…would be the worst thing for a company that is forward-looking and not backwards-thinking," wrote one reader. "When a Mac OS can cope with all the random junk [that gets plugged into a PC] then you can have an 'Apples to apples' comparison," wrote another.

However, a reader who ID'd himself merely as "Mark" suggested a solution—Apple should license the next version of its operating system, known as Leopard, but only to PC vendors who agree to put it on systems with certain specifications. He also speculates that Apple would, in such a scenario, insist on a minimum system price. PC vendors, he says, would be pleased to oblige, since making money in that business is so tough. Perhaps Michael Dell is thinking along similar lines. (He wouldn't say.)

Many readers were surprised that Apple announced its partnership with Intel and not AMD, which despite being much smaller is ahead of Intel in x86 performance, energy efficiency, and other factors Jobs has said are important.

So, I called up Henri Richard, AMD's chief sales and marketing officer. He said Apple hadn't talked to AMD, and that in some ways that made sense. It was probably, he speculated, all about money. Porting the Mac OS to Intel and bringing along all the applications will be "incredibly" expensive, he said, "and the amount [of money] Apple can get from Intel is vastly greater than what it could get from us." With a marketer's optimism, Richard continued: "Steve [Jobs] is a smart guy. He'll get as much money as he can from Intel, and then go to the best architecture."

Richard also had a spin on the Dell angle of the Apple/Intel tie-up. (AMD has repeatedly failed to win Dell's business, so the company spends a lot of time thinking about the PC giant.) "Intel always wants to be the top dog," he said. "If there was any motivation in this deal from the Intel perspective it was just to keep Dell on its toes." He continued: "It's a cat and mouse game between these guys. This is a subtle way for Intel to remind Dell that there are alternatives that could be pushed."

A few other reader observations on Apple's move:

"Jobs' efforts in multimedia content…with distributors such as the telephone companies… will be strengthened with the move to Intel. It ties in well with the effort to make MPEG 4 HD the standard…" —Robert B.

"Is Apple ready to face software piracy? If it begins to compete with Windows [on Intel chips], it will surely arrive in developing countries where software piracy is high." —Felix, writing from Indonesia. Apple already sells in many developing countries, but not generally in very large quantities.

Another reader wrote: "[IBM's] PowerPC chips used to be the chip of choice for embedded applications, precisely due to power/performance/heat advantages that they have over Intel, which outweighed the popularity penalty for software. (In my business, the Bradley and Abrams military vehicles both use PowerPC boards for precisely that reason.) With new Intel chips that beat PowerPC in performance per watt, IBM is on the edge of losing not only Apple, but the embedded market, where the ability to cool the processor is one of the major design constraints for the system as a whole. My current program (which I will not name, but is in an industry similar to the…Army combat vehicles) is now using PowerPC, but I expect this to change, and the Apple rationale is probably the last nail in the PowerPC coffin on my program."

Finally, perhaps the most telling letter was written by Bob I., who simply said, "With the switch to Intel, I will be buying a Mac for myself."
Old 06-16-2005, 04:34 PM
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doop;


Check one post above you.

Old 06-16-2005, 04:36 PM
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Old 06-16-2005, 06:31 PM
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about doopstr's post^^^^... There were non-apple machines that ran mac-OS a few years ago but i think all the manufacturer's are gone... anyone remember the mac-clones? I think one of th brands was called Power Computing or something like that.....
Old 06-16-2005, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by bimmer88
about doopstr's post^^^^... There were non-apple machines that ran mac-OS a few years ago but i think all the manufacturer's are gone... anyone remember the mac-clones? I think one of th brands was called Power Computing or something like that.....
Yeah, there were several including Motorola. I think that ended around 1997 or so.
Old 06-16-2005, 09:31 PM
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yih

Power Computing

But all the clones were licensed the Mac ROMS so the OS would boot.
Old 06-17-2005, 11:33 AM
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Yes, and lets not forget how apple screwed companies without lube. If Dell ends up doing this, they should be verry careful about how dedicated they get to apple products
Old 06-22-2005, 11:15 AM
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I saw this one coming...

http://www.macworld.com/news/2005/06...php?lsrc=mwrss

CodeWeavers CrossOver to support Intel-based Macs
By Peter Cohen pcohen@maccentral.com

CodeWeavers Inc. on Wednesday announced plans to support Intel-based Macs. CodeWeavers makes CrossOver and CrossOver Office. The software allows Linux users to use software designed to work on Windows operating systems without needing to have Windows installed. What’s more, CodeWeavers offers custom software porting services based on CrossOver.

CodeWeavers is a corporate backer of Wine, open source software that lets Windows applications run on Linux systems not through emulation, but by implementing a compatibility layer that provides implementations of the Dynamically Linked Libraries (DLLs) Windows application depend on. (Wine itself is a recursive acronym that stands for “Windows Is Not an Emulator.) CrossOver is a proprietary version of Wine.

Apple announced plans to shift its CPU manufacturing outsourcing from IBM to Intel at its Worldwide Developers Conference (WWDC) earlier this month. Apple CEO Steve Jobs said that the first Intel-based Macs should available by this time next year, although attendees of WWDC were able to get their hands on early prototype units to help manage some initial compatibility testing.

CodeWeavers explained that despite CrossOver’s Unix underpinnings, Apple’s PowerPC architecture has heretofore made it unfeasible to bring CrossOver to the Mac. This will change with the advent of Intel-based Macs, according to CodeWeavers.

“By installing CrossOver Office on Intel-based Macs, many Windows-only applications, including Windows-based games, utilities and business applications, will operate seamlessly and reliably,” said the company in a statement.
Old 06-07-2006, 09:39 PM
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Well i found this nice thread I started last year... anyone have any statements they'd like to retract?
Old 06-07-2006, 10:35 PM
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anybody know nay good MAC forums?!
Old 06-07-2006, 10:44 PM
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I know a good mac shoe fourm....

Old 06-08-2006, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by NYZGREATST
anybody know nay good MAC forums?!
http://discussions.apple.com/index.jspa
http://forums.macnn.com/
http://www.macfixitforums.com/
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