Apple is going to Intel Processors!
06-06-2005, 02:41 PM
#241
Originally Posted by The Sarlacc
I wonder if this risk would even possible without the success of the ipod and itunes.
I think apple has a lot of work to do, they cant ride on the coat tails of the ipod forever. I agree that Mac OS X is superior, but you are going to have to make everyone else belive that too (and i dont know if I want eveyone else to find it out)
06-06-2005, 02:44 PM
#242
Originally Posted by soopa
i'm sure there will be some sort of DRM to prevent OSX from running on anything other than an Apple approved, Intel made, X86.
06-06-2005, 02:44 PM
#243
The Third Ball
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Originally Posted by virus7
I think apple has a lot of work to do, they cant ride on the coat tails of the ipod forever. I agree that Mac OS X is superior, but you are going to have to make everyone else belive that too (and i dont know if I want eveyone else to find it out)
06-06-2005, 02:46 PM
#244
Suzuka Master
Originally Posted by irix
I'm sure 1st release will be for a small subset of HW. And will grow with time...
06-06-2005, 02:49 PM
#245
Originally Posted by The Sarlacc
Well, what i meant was i wonder if the finacial stability being provded by ipod/itunes right now is allowing apple to make the risk to take a loss in computer sales to switch to intel to get more people on board with OSX
06-06-2005, 02:49 PM
#246
Administrator Alumnus
Originally Posted by ABreece
I'm wondering though, what about the bios issue? Apple uses Open BIOS, how easy will it be to get OS X working with the standard for PCs right now?
Not trvial... I'm sure x86 macs will have a rom preventing any mac cloning.
06-06-2005, 02:55 PM
#247
The Creator
Apple is not going to open up OSX for installation on any ol PC.
If they did, you can be certain OSX would steal a significant piece of Microsoft's market share. Anyone could install OSX (it's super easy) and everyone would like it more than Window's if they gave it a shot and didn't have the price thing to worry about.
However, it would go totally against what OSX and Apple is.
Half the reason Apple is beloved is because of the relative consistency of hardware. As an application developer or web designer you KNOW what your mac users experience will be.
As an application developer or web designer you have NO IDEA wha the experience of Windows users willl be because systems varry so much and there is no hardware consistency. But this is what makes Microsoft based systems cheap.
And again, like Silver's link to Wired points out... Apple is after the Movie market. This is the holy grail of the digital realm right now... iTunes for Movies. Netflix on demand type stuff. In order to secure this market they need a DRM solution. This is what Intel is bringing to the table apparently.
Apple has all the other pieces in place to win this market other than the DRM.
With the Pentium D's, "iFlicks", the next gen iPod (portable MOVIES), and quite possibly Apple's move into the media center / tivo market, it all comes together.
It's not really about the desktop.
If they did, you can be certain OSX would steal a significant piece of Microsoft's market share. Anyone could install OSX (it's super easy) and everyone would like it more than Window's if they gave it a shot and didn't have the price thing to worry about.
However, it would go totally against what OSX and Apple is.
Half the reason Apple is beloved is because of the relative consistency of hardware. As an application developer or web designer you KNOW what your mac users experience will be.
As an application developer or web designer you have NO IDEA wha the experience of Windows users willl be because systems varry so much and there is no hardware consistency. But this is what makes Microsoft based systems cheap.
And again, like Silver's link to Wired points out... Apple is after the Movie market. This is the holy grail of the digital realm right now... iTunes for Movies. Netflix on demand type stuff. In order to secure this market they need a DRM solution. This is what Intel is bringing to the table apparently.
Apple has all the other pieces in place to win this market other than the DRM.
With the Pentium D's, "iFlicks", the next gen iPod (portable MOVIES), and quite possibly Apple's move into the media center / tivo market, it all comes together.
It's not really about the desktop.
06-06-2005, 03:02 PM
#248
Cost Drivers!!!!
Originally Posted by soopa
Apple is not going to open up OSX for installation on any ol PC.
If they did, you can be certain OSX would steal a significant piece of Microsoft's market share. Anyone could install OSX (it's super easy) and everyone would like it more than Window's if they gave it a shot and didn't have the price thing to worry about.
However, it would go totally against what OSX and Apple is.
Half the reason Apple is beloved is because of the relative consistency of hardware. As an application developer or web designer you KNOW what your mac users experience will be.
As an application developer or web designer you have NO IDEA wha the experience of Windows users willl be because systems varry so much and there is no hardware consistency. But this is what makes Microsoft based systems cheap.
And again, like Silver's link to Wired points out... Apple is after the Movie market. This is the holy grail of the digital realm right now... iTunes for Movies. Netflix on demand type stuff. In order to secure this market they need a DRM solution. This is what Intel is bringing to the table apparently.
Apple has all the other pieces in place to win this market other than the DRM.
With the Pentium D's, "iFlicks", the next gen iPod (portable MOVIES), and quite possibly Apple's move into the media center / tivo market, it all comes together.
It's not really about the desktop.
If they did, you can be certain OSX would steal a significant piece of Microsoft's market share. Anyone could install OSX (it's super easy) and everyone would like it more than Window's if they gave it a shot and didn't have the price thing to worry about.
However, it would go totally against what OSX and Apple is.
Half the reason Apple is beloved is because of the relative consistency of hardware. As an application developer or web designer you KNOW what your mac users experience will be.
As an application developer or web designer you have NO IDEA wha the experience of Windows users willl be because systems varry so much and there is no hardware consistency. But this is what makes Microsoft based systems cheap.
And again, like Silver's link to Wired points out... Apple is after the Movie market. This is the holy grail of the digital realm right now... iTunes for Movies. Netflix on demand type stuff. In order to secure this market they need a DRM solution. This is what Intel is bringing to the table apparently.
Apple has all the other pieces in place to win this market other than the DRM.
With the Pentium D's, "iFlicks", the next gen iPod (portable MOVIES), and quite possibly Apple's move into the media center / tivo market, it all comes together.
It's not really about the desktop.
and thank you.......
06-06-2005, 03:03 PM
#249
The Creator
Michael Gartenberg says...
"Still in the keynote, here's some details for you. Ill post this later... Itunes podcasting stuff is killer for this. No doubt in my mind Apple will own the most important podcast client and podcast directory.
So now we know. I'm not sure the industry is shaking but there are implications. First, ler's clear up the facts.
1. Given history, this isn't a total shock. The former CEO of NeXT moved that platform from Motorola to Intel and there's a lot of NeXT in OS X. And that forner CEO is still Steve Jobs.
2. This isn't a clone play. No running OS X on your Dell. No running Windows on your Macintosh out of the box. I would expect over time hacks to abound to try and enable both.
3. It isn't a major shift as so much of the code has already been abstracted since the Power PC shift in 1994. Most, if not all OS X apps will just work out of the box.
Longer term implications are interesting. Apple won't be Intel's largest supplier but will be an important one. Also, remember that Intel makse chips for many other products, including those that go beyond the PC. This is only chapter one in what is likely to be a long tale"
"Still in the keynote, here's some details for you. Ill post this later... Itunes podcasting stuff is killer for this. No doubt in my mind Apple will own the most important podcast client and podcast directory.
So now we know. I'm not sure the industry is shaking but there are implications. First, ler's clear up the facts.
1. Given history, this isn't a total shock. The former CEO of NeXT moved that platform from Motorola to Intel and there's a lot of NeXT in OS X. And that forner CEO is still Steve Jobs.
2. This isn't a clone play. No running OS X on your Dell. No running Windows on your Macintosh out of the box. I would expect over time hacks to abound to try and enable both.
3. It isn't a major shift as so much of the code has already been abstracted since the Power PC shift in 1994. Most, if not all OS X apps will just work out of the box.
Longer term implications are interesting. Apple won't be Intel's largest supplier but will be an important one. Also, remember that Intel makse chips for many other products, including those that go beyond the PC. This is only chapter one in what is likely to be a long tale"
06-06-2005, 03:05 PM
#250
The Creator
Dave Winer says...
"1. Apple is not going into the software business, their operating system will not run on other vendor's hardware. So you won't be running the Mac OS on Dell, HP or IBM, for example. and
2. While Windows is not explicitly supported, they won't do anything to prevent Windows from running on their hardware."
"1. Apple is not going into the software business, their operating system will not run on other vendor's hardware. So you won't be running the Mac OS on Dell, HP or IBM, for example. and
2. While Windows is not explicitly supported, they won't do anything to prevent Windows from running on their hardware."
06-06-2005, 03:06 PM
#252
The Creator
TUAW says...
"I could see Apple now selling the OS to any machine. Steve said, "The soul of a Mac is its operating system". If that's true, then what is to stop a marketing movement called "Make Your PC a Mac: Give it some soul."
It also means that that "soul" will most likely be shackled by DRM.... Don't get me started. "
... I don't see it happening.
"I could see Apple now selling the OS to any machine. Steve said, "The soul of a Mac is its operating system". If that's true, then what is to stop a marketing movement called "Make Your PC a Mac: Give it some soul."
It also means that that "soul" will most likely be shackled by DRM.... Don't get me started. "
... I don't see it happening.
06-06-2005, 03:07 PM
#253
The Creator
Calacanis says...
"Apple’s gonna make their OS free, or at least a free light version of the OS. Make the OS free, convert 2-10% of the desktops out there to Mac and make it back on value added services like iTunes, software, and .Mac storage/email."
"Apple’s gonna make their OS free, or at least a free light version of the OS. Make the OS free, convert 2-10% of the desktops out there to Mac and make it back on value added services like iTunes, software, and .Mac storage/email."
06-06-2005, 03:07 PM
#254
The Creator
Malik says...
"I don’t think that is going to happen, but then we never thought Apple+Intel together as well! Jason might be misreading today’s announcement as ability to run OS-X on non-Apple x86 hardware. It is exactly the opposite. x86 inside Apple hardware running OS-X is the new business model for Apple."
"I don’t think that is going to happen, but then we never thought Apple+Intel together as well! Jason might be misreading today’s announcement as ability to run OS-X on non-Apple x86 hardware. It is exactly the opposite. x86 inside Apple hardware running OS-X is the new business model for Apple."
06-06-2005, 03:14 PM
#260
The Creator
you'll also note how much they talked about Quicktime today. they still view Quicktime as a core product.
Pixar is still Job's favorite toy.
iTunes is the unexpected money maker.
...
Pixar is still Job's favorite toy.
iTunes is the unexpected money maker.
...
06-06-2005, 03:15 PM
#261
The Creator
Calacanis responds to Malik
"
Thanks for the link and thoughts… I know today is only Apple running on Intel but I think this is really about dual-boot machines. The iPod was a taste of all Apple had to offer… I bought one. The Mac Mini was another taste of what Apple had to offer… I bought one.
Now if they let OSX run on any Intel machines—even a light version—what would the harm be? They could make it a free light version and then charge $300 for a full version.
Jobs is getting older and he had a near death experience with his cancer. My dime-store psychology tells me he is going for it…. I think he feels
he has a limited amount of time on this earth and he should take a ton of risks and try to do something great.
What would be greater then him coming back from 2% market share to 50%? 90%? It would be the greatest come back in the history of business…. why not go for it now while you’ve got a decade or two worth work life left if you?"
"
Thanks for the link and thoughts… I know today is only Apple running on Intel but I think this is really about dual-boot machines. The iPod was a taste of all Apple had to offer… I bought one. The Mac Mini was another taste of what Apple had to offer… I bought one.
Now if they let OSX run on any Intel machines—even a light version—what would the harm be? They could make it a free light version and then charge $300 for a full version.
Jobs is getting older and he had a near death experience with his cancer. My dime-store psychology tells me he is going for it…. I think he feels
he has a limited amount of time on this earth and he should take a ton of risks and try to do something great.
What would be greater then him coming back from 2% market share to 50%? 90%? It would be the greatest come back in the history of business…. why not go for it now while you’ve got a decade or two worth work life left if you?"
06-06-2005, 03:16 PM
#263
Cost Drivers!!!!
interesting....
Originally Posted by soopa
Calacanis responds to Malik
"
Thanks for the link and thoughts… I know today is only Apple running on Intel but I think this is really about dual-boot machines. The iPod was a taste of all Apple had to offer… I bought one. The Mac Mini was another taste of what Apple had to offer… I bought one.
Now if they let OSX run on any Intel machines—even a light version—what would the harm be? They could make it a free light version and then charge $300 for a full version.
Jobs is getting older and he had a near death experience with his cancer. My dime-store psychology tells me he is going for it…. I think he feels
he has a limited amount of time on this earth and he should take a ton of risks and try to do something great.
What would be greater then him coming back from 2% market share to 50%? 90%? It would be the greatest come back in the history of business…. why not go for it now while you’ve got a decade or two worth work life left if you?"
"
Thanks for the link and thoughts… I know today is only Apple running on Intel but I think this is really about dual-boot machines. The iPod was a taste of all Apple had to offer… I bought one. The Mac Mini was another taste of what Apple had to offer… I bought one.
Now if they let OSX run on any Intel machines—even a light version—what would the harm be? They could make it a free light version and then charge $300 for a full version.
Jobs is getting older and he had a near death experience with his cancer. My dime-store psychology tells me he is going for it…. I think he feels
he has a limited amount of time on this earth and he should take a ton of risks and try to do something great.
What would be greater then him coming back from 2% market share to 50%? 90%? It would be the greatest come back in the history of business…. why not go for it now while you’ve got a decade or two worth work life left if you?"
06-06-2005, 03:17 PM
#264
The Creator
06-06-2005, 03:23 PM
#267
The Creator
"John Rhodes has a great counterpoint to the generic "Apple dumped IBM" argument — John thinks that maybe IBM dumped Apple. Think about it, IBM has now secured processor production for the next three huge gaming systems (Xbox 360, Nintendo Revolution, and Playstation 3) and is the king of the hill in that multi-billion dollar industry. Maybe Steve Jobs was a little too public with his IBM criticizing, and IBM told him to do some self-copulation. Or even more interesting, what if IBM never knew that Steve had been working with Intel on x86-based Macs for the past 5 years, and after the cat left the bag IBM couldn't deal with the infidelity. Sure makes for some interesting pillow talk."
06-06-2005, 03:25 PM
#268
The Creator
06-06-2005, 03:26 PM
#269
The Creator
CNET and Apple Confidential have a nice timeline:
1976: Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak and Ron Wayne found Apple
1976: Apple I introduced, $666
1977: Apple II released, $1,298
1979: Mac project begins under Jef Raskin
1981: IBM PC introduced, $1,565
1983: Lisa ($9,995 and Apple IIe ($1,395) introduced. Motorola 68000 processor at 5MHz and 1MB of memory
1984: Mac released, $2,495. Motorola 68,000 processor at 7.8 MHZ and 128k of memory
1985: Lisa discontinued; installed base of 60,000
1985: Jobs resigns
1988: Jobs introduces NeXT Computer
1990: Windows 3.0 released
1991: Apple announces partnership with IBM
1994: First Power Macs ship
1995: Windows 95 released
1996: Apple buys NeXT; Jobs becomes adviser
1998: iMac introduced
2005: Apple drops IBM; will use Intel chips
1976: Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak and Ron Wayne found Apple
1976: Apple I introduced, $666
1977: Apple II released, $1,298
1979: Mac project begins under Jef Raskin
1981: IBM PC introduced, $1,565
1983: Lisa ($9,995 and Apple IIe ($1,395) introduced. Motorola 68000 processor at 5MHz and 1MB of memory
1984: Mac released, $2,495. Motorola 68,000 processor at 7.8 MHZ and 128k of memory
1985: Lisa discontinued; installed base of 60,000
1985: Jobs resigns
1988: Jobs introduces NeXT Computer
1990: Windows 3.0 released
1991: Apple announces partnership with IBM
1994: First Power Macs ship
1995: Windows 95 released
1996: Apple buys NeXT; Jobs becomes adviser
1998: iMac introduced
2005: Apple drops IBM; will use Intel chips
06-06-2005, 03:33 PM
#273
Cost Drivers!!!!
yes and no. Desktop is evolving. Mobility etc., is the key. Multimedia has always driven the internet, storage and networks but i think it's reaching critical mass because of so many dynamic variables becoming more or less static. Main stream is finally catching on, what all the internet pr0n freaks have been saying with their pocket books and downloads, for years. We want content. Convergence of the desktopPC into and with every other device into a media delivery tool is what the market is seeing.
Does it mean Apple steps away from OS. No but i think it enables them to do what they want. Just another revenue stream.
Does it mean Apple steps away from OS. No but i think it enables them to do what they want. Just another revenue stream.
Originally Posted by soopa
Apple is not going to open up OSX for installation on any ol PC.
If they did, you can be certain OSX would steal a significant piece of Microsoft's market share. Anyone could install OSX (it's super easy) and everyone would like it more than Window's if they gave it a shot and didn't have the price thing to worry about.
However, it would go totally against what OSX and Apple is.
Half the reason Apple is beloved is because of the relative consistency of hardware. As an application developer or web designer you KNOW what your mac users experience will be.
As an application developer or web designer you have NO IDEA wha the experience of Windows users willl be because systems varry so much and there is no hardware consistency. But this is what makes Microsoft based systems cheap.
And again, like Silver's link to Wired points out... Apple is after the Movie market. This is the holy grail of the digital realm right now... iTunes for Movies. Netflix on demand type stuff. In order to secure this market they need a DRM solution. This is what Intel is bringing to the table apparently.
Apple has all the other pieces in place to win this market other than the DRM.
With the Pentium D's, "iFlicks", the next gen iPod (portable MOVIES), and quite possibly Apple's move into the media center / tivo market, it all comes together.
It's not really about the desktop.
If they did, you can be certain OSX would steal a significant piece of Microsoft's market share. Anyone could install OSX (it's super easy) and everyone would like it more than Window's if they gave it a shot and didn't have the price thing to worry about.
However, it would go totally against what OSX and Apple is.
Half the reason Apple is beloved is because of the relative consistency of hardware. As an application developer or web designer you KNOW what your mac users experience will be.
As an application developer or web designer you have NO IDEA wha the experience of Windows users willl be because systems varry so much and there is no hardware consistency. But this is what makes Microsoft based systems cheap.
And again, like Silver's link to Wired points out... Apple is after the Movie market. This is the holy grail of the digital realm right now... iTunes for Movies. Netflix on demand type stuff. In order to secure this market they need a DRM solution. This is what Intel is bringing to the table apparently.
Apple has all the other pieces in place to win this market other than the DRM.
With the Pentium D's, "iFlicks", the next gen iPod (portable MOVIES), and quite possibly Apple's move into the media center / tivo market, it all comes together.
It's not really about the desktop.
06-06-2005, 03:38 PM
#274
Cost Drivers!!!!
Originally Posted by soopa
"John Rhodes has a great counterpoint to the generic "Apple dumped IBM" argument — John thinks that maybe IBM dumped Apple. Think about it, IBM has now secured processor production for the next three huge gaming systems (Xbox 360, Nintendo Revolution, and Playstation 3) and is the king of the hill in that multi-billion dollar industry. Maybe Steve Jobs was a little too public with his IBM criticizing, and IBM told him to do some self-copulation. Or even more interesting, what if IBM never knew that Steve had been working with Intel on x86-based Macs for the past 5 years, and after the cat left the bag IBM couldn't deal with the infidelity. Sure makes for some interesting pillow talk."
Very true....i heard on the grapevine from IBM people up in poughkeepsie that Apple and IBM did have a fallout. IBM laughed at Apple when Apple came to IBM and said wtf mang...get with the processor...IBM said, meh, you don't do that much for us, ....Apple said, f't
06-06-2005, 03:42 PM
#277
The Creator
zapata, agreed, i don't believe apple is in anyway stepping away from the OS.
i think we're simply seeing apple looking at the bigger picture... beyond the desktop/workstation/pc era were in now.
its about convergence of the desktop os with consumer devices and mass media delivery ... agree 100%
i think we're simply seeing apple looking at the bigger picture... beyond the desktop/workstation/pc era were in now.
its about convergence of the desktop os with consumer devices and mass media delivery ... agree 100%
06-06-2005, 03:43 PM
#278
The Creator
Originally Posted by Scrib
especially with the 3.6GHZ P4 being at the bottom (the very same processor that will be shipping with OSX86 dev kits)
maybe IBM really did dump Apple.
06-06-2005, 03:44 PM
#279
The Creator
the Intel vs AMD decisions is looking to be a capacity issue. speculation seems to be that AMD would not be able to keep up, especially with Intel having just built new plants.
