NFL: 2019 Season News and Discussion Thread
11-19-2019 | 01:34 PM
#806
Suzuka Master
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 8,000
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From: Boston
Another day of the AB saga. Today he publicly apologized to Mr Kraft in a nicely worded post on Twitter/Instagram
People within the Boston media who have some deep sources say this isn't a random post. And to be fair most of the Boston media hates AB
People within the Boston media who have some deep sources say this isn't a random post. And to be fair most of the Boston media hates AB
11-19-2019 | 02:03 PM
#807
Senior Moderator
Joined: Dec 2001
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Until his legal issues are resolved, I think AB's playing days are over.
11-19-2019 | 04:00 PM
#811
Senior Moderator
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11-20-2019 | 07:57 AM
#816
Old Man Yelling at Clouds
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,973
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From: Seattle, WA
The biggest impediment to his skills being taken seriously is the drama that he causes. He had an opportunity to just let the day be about his skills and football, and instead he chose more drama. Changing the venue last minute and making everyone scramble was a really bad move IMO. It's like if you had a job interview at the corporate office and at the last minute you told your potential employers you'll only meet in the Starbucks across town not in their offices. He inconvenienced the very people he's trying to impress. He should be the one working hard for an opportunity, not making everyone else work hard to provide him one.
It's hard to take him seriously at this point. I wish him well, but I also wish he's leave the game alone and move on.
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11-20-2019 | 09:26 AM
#817
Pro
Joined: Oct 2016
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I think he shot himself in the foot with that workout.
The biggest impediment to his skills being taken seriously is the drama that he causes. He had an opportunity to just let the day be about his skills and football, and instead he chose more drama. Changing the venue last minute and making everyone scramble was a really bad move IMO. It's like if you had a job interview at the corporate office and at the last minute you told your potential employers you'll only meet in the Starbucks across town not in their offices. He inconvenienced the very people he's trying to impress. He should be the one working hard for an opportunity, not making everyone else work hard to provide him one.
It's hard to take him seriously at this point. I wish him well, but I also wish he's leave the game alone and move on.
The biggest impediment to his skills being taken seriously is the drama that he causes. He had an opportunity to just let the day be about his skills and football, and instead he chose more drama. Changing the venue last minute and making everyone scramble was a really bad move IMO. It's like if you had a job interview at the corporate office and at the last minute you told your potential employers you'll only meet in the Starbucks across town not in their offices. He inconvenienced the very people he's trying to impress. He should be the one working hard for an opportunity, not making everyone else work hard to provide him one.
It's hard to take him seriously at this point. I wish him well, but I also wish he's leave the game alone and move on.
11-20-2019 | 09:46 AM
#818
Senior Moderator
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 167,696
Likes: 22,991
I think he shot himself in the foot with that workout.
The biggest impediment to his skills being taken seriously is the drama that he causes. He had an opportunity to just let the day be about his skills and football, and instead he chose more drama. Changing the venue last minute and making everyone scramble was a really bad move IMO. It's like if you had a job interview at the corporate office and at the last minute you told your potential employers you'll only meet in the Starbucks across town not in their offices. He inconvenienced the very people he's trying to impress. He should be the one working hard for an opportunity, not making everyone else work hard to provide him one.
It's hard to take him seriously at this point. I wish him well, but I also wish he's leave the game alone and move on.
The biggest impediment to his skills being taken seriously is the drama that he causes. He had an opportunity to just let the day be about his skills and football, and instead he chose more drama. Changing the venue last minute and making everyone scramble was a really bad move IMO. It's like if you had a job interview at the corporate office and at the last minute you told your potential employers you'll only meet in the Starbucks across town not in their offices. He inconvenienced the very people he's trying to impress. He should be the one working hard for an opportunity, not making everyone else work hard to provide him one.
It's hard to take him seriously at this point. I wish him well, but I also wish he's leave the game alone and move on.
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/fair...210253095.html
11-20-2019 | 12:07 PM
#820
Senior Moderator
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 31,897
Likes: 7,249
From: Austin, TX
I thought the venue change ultimately came down to media access. Kaep’s camp reported that the NFL wouldn’t let their guys film the session.
I get that the last minute change is bad form. I agree. But we all knew going in that the NFL setup a sham workout with what seemed like as many reasons as possible for Kaep to back out. Why else did his team have a plan B set up?
I get that the last minute change is bad form. I agree. But we all knew going in that the NFL setup a sham workout with what seemed like as many reasons as possible for Kaep to back out. Why else did his team have a plan B set up?
11-20-2019 | 12:34 PM
#821
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 27,997
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From: Miami, FL
In reality the venue change was pretty smart since the league wouldn't budge it on allowing him to handle the video. As far as his performance, Schefter reported that one exec said: "elite arm talent". Now he can distribute the video on his own terms. At the end of the day though, if he doesn't get signed, it was a waste of time but probably further proves his point of being blackballed.
11-20-2019 | 12:57 PM
#823
Old Man Yelling at Clouds
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,973
Likes: 7,362
From: Seattle, WA
Without understanding the details of the video filming itself, it still doesn't appear to me that controlling who took the pictures was reason enough to disrupt the whole event. He had a bunch of people there to view the workout live. It's their endorsement that would get him a team workout, not a video. If the video presented him in a poor light, all he has to do is say that when the video comes out. Or all he needs is one of the live viewers to just say, "he looked much better in person than in this video". Done. That's a completely controllable situation to manage. Moving it just supports the narrative hes a drama queen who's more interested in attention than a job.
Having an "elite arm" doesn't matter if you have bad judgement.
Having an "elite arm" doesn't matter if you have bad judgement.
11-20-2019 | 12:57 PM
#824
In reality the venue change was pretty smart since the league wouldn't budge it on allowing him to handle the video. As far as his performance, Schefter reported that one exec said: "elite arm talent". Now he can distribute the video on his own terms. At the end of the day though, if he doesn't get signed, it was a waste of time but probably further proves his point of being blackballed.
Last edited by BreezyTL; 11-20-2019 at 12:59 PM.
11-20-2019 | 01:30 PM
#825
Old Man Yelling at Clouds
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,973
Likes: 7,362
From: Seattle, WA
^ Continuing your point....
If AB doesn't get signed, is he being blackballed too? No, it's because his drama and clear lack of dependability isn't worth the time or effort. Kaep is no different - his drama and questionable ability is reason enough. The "blackball" narrative is coming from his camp to generate sympathy and attention for his cause.
If you cause more drama than your talent offsets then it is what it is. Doesn't matter what the drama is.
Football is a product. That product survives on paying fans. If you piss off half the paying fans, regardless of how noble your cause may be, you can't expect that kind of drama to be ignored by potential employers who rely on those same paying fans.
If AB doesn't get signed, is he being blackballed too? No, it's because his drama and clear lack of dependability isn't worth the time or effort. Kaep is no different - his drama and questionable ability is reason enough. The "blackball" narrative is coming from his camp to generate sympathy and attention for his cause.
If you cause more drama than your talent offsets then it is what it is. Doesn't matter what the drama is.
Football is a product. That product survives on paying fans. If you piss off half the paying fans, regardless of how noble your cause may be, you can't expect that kind of drama to be ignored by potential employers who rely on those same paying fans.
Last edited by 1Louder; 11-20-2019 at 01:34 PM.
11-21-2019 | 07:19 AM
#826
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 27,997
Likes: 1,318
From: Miami, FL
I'll go with an exec's opinion thanks. How many Super Bowls did he go to let alone games played?
Not sure you how tie his reason to protect himself as bad judgment but whatever. The event was BS regardless. Plus there was an issue with the waiver. It was a sham.
You guys got some bias going. When did Kaep assault a woman? Miss practice? Threaten a GM?
And to blackballing, did we all forgot he settled with the NFL, who doesn't settle (right Brady fans). They wanted him to sign a waiver that wasn't your typical player tryout waiver which some lawyers called it malpractice if signed. The NFL wasn't doing him a favor here with this last minute staged tryout where he couldn't even use the video. Some of you have actual bias if you think he isn't or (wasn't a year or 2 ago) better than some of the trash in the league.
Without understanding the details of the video filming itself, it still doesn't appear to me that controlling who took the pictures was reason enough to disrupt the whole event. He had a bunch of people there to view the workout live. It's their endorsement that would get him a team workout, not a video. If the video presented him in a poor light, all he has to do is say that when the video comes out. Or all he needs is one of the live viewers to just say, "he looked much better in person than in this video". Done. That's a completely controllable situation to manage. Moving it just supports the narrative hes a drama queen who's more interested in attention than a job.
Having an "elite arm" doesn't matter if you have bad judgement.
Having an "elite arm" doesn't matter if you have bad judgement.
He isn't being blackballed... just cause you have talent doesn't mean you are given the job. His attitude is shit and his accuracy is shit. I don't see a reason why owners would want that in their locker rooms and let a lone all the media that will come with it. Dude is a cancer and hasn't accepted he is mediocre at best. Hang it up buttercup, you won't be throwing interceptions anytime soon. The fact he thinks people owe him a job after being "blackballed" for 3 years is a joke. Hearing that I wouldn't give this guy a chance to suck a fart out of my ass. His stats when he was benched say enough. As much as I would love to see this piece of shit get signed, just to fail, I don't see it happening. I will eat my words if something ever happened, but I won't hold my breathe!
^ Continuing your point....
If AB doesn't get signed, is he being blackballed too? No, it's because his drama and clear lack of dependability isn't worth the time or effort. Kaep is no different - his drama and questionable ability is reason enough. The "blackball" narrative is coming from his camp to generate sympathy and attention for his cause.
If you cause more drama than your talent offsets then it is what it is. Doesn't matter what the drama is.
Football is a product. That product survives on paying fans. If you piss off half the paying fans, regardless of how noble your cause may be, you can't expect that kind of drama to be ignored by potential employers who rely on those same paying fans.
If AB doesn't get signed, is he being blackballed too? No, it's because his drama and clear lack of dependability isn't worth the time or effort. Kaep is no different - his drama and questionable ability is reason enough. The "blackball" narrative is coming from his camp to generate sympathy and attention for his cause.
If you cause more drama than your talent offsets then it is what it is. Doesn't matter what the drama is.
Football is a product. That product survives on paying fans. If you piss off half the paying fans, regardless of how noble your cause may be, you can't expect that kind of drama to be ignored by potential employers who rely on those same paying fans.
And to blackballing, did we all forgot he settled with the NFL, who doesn't settle (right Brady fans). They wanted him to sign a waiver that wasn't your typical player tryout waiver which some lawyers called it malpractice if signed. The NFL wasn't doing him a favor here with this last minute staged tryout where he couldn't even use the video. Some of you have actual bias if you think he isn't or (wasn't a year or 2 ago) better than some of the trash in the league.
11-21-2019 | 07:38 AM
#827
Suzuka Master
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 8,000
Likes: 3,596
From: Boston
Haha it wasn't my opinion. It was the opinion of everyone in 07
"His passing session was the most impressive of all the pro days I've been to," McShay said. "His footwork for such a big quarterback was surprising. He was nimble in his dropbacks and when he's rolling out and throwing on the run. We all knew coming in that his arm strength is extraordinary. The ball just explodes out of his hands. His 73rd, 74th and 75th throws, he was flicking the ball 60 yards with his wrist and putting it right on the numbers."
And playing in a super bowl 6yrs ago means nothing today. Joe Flaco also played in that game, how's he doing right now
"His passing session was the most impressive of all the pro days I've been to," McShay said. "His footwork for such a big quarterback was surprising. He was nimble in his dropbacks and when he's rolling out and throwing on the run. We all knew coming in that his arm strength is extraordinary. The ball just explodes out of his hands. His 73rd, 74th and 75th throws, he was flicking the ball 60 yards with his wrist and putting it right on the numbers."
And playing in a super bowl 6yrs ago means nothing today. Joe Flaco also played in that game, how's he doing right now
11-21-2019 | 08:09 AM
#828
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 27,997
Likes: 1,318
From: Miami, FL
Haha it wasn't my opinion. It was the opinion of everyone in 07
"His passing session was the most impressive of all the pro days I've been to," McShay said. "His footwork for such a big quarterback was surprising. He was nimble in his dropbacks and when he's rolling out and throwing on the run. We all knew coming in that his arm strength is extraordinary. The ball just explodes out of his hands. His 73rd, 74th and 75th throws, he was flicking the ball 60 yards with his wrist and putting it right on the numbers."
And playing in a super bowl 6yrs ago means nothing today. Joe Flaco also played in that game, how's he doing right now
"His passing session was the most impressive of all the pro days I've been to," McShay said. "His footwork for such a big quarterback was surprising. He was nimble in his dropbacks and when he's rolling out and throwing on the run. We all knew coming in that his arm strength is extraordinary. The ball just explodes out of his hands. His 73rd, 74th and 75th throws, he was flicking the ball 60 yards with his wrist and putting it right on the numbers."
And playing in a super bowl 6yrs ago means nothing today. Joe Flaco also played in that game, how's he doing right now
11-21-2019 | 08:18 AM
#830
Old Man Yelling at Clouds
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,973
Likes: 7,362
From: Seattle, WA
I don't get how the next best venue was 60 miles away. That's just pissing off the very people he's trying to impress. And I'm not an expert in what waiver he was being asked to sign or why it matters who took the video. And what exactly is he protecting himself from? Not playing in the NFL?
I'm not biased - if he wants to play, and can play, I wish him the best. I think there are lots of teams who would be willing to give him a look. But he doesn't appear to JUST want to play. He wants the league to rise and meet his terms. He wants to be an advocate. He wants attention. If he's really that talented, then the only conclusion is that it's the drama that's keeping him out of the league. So if he really wants in, he needed to shed the drama and just shut up and play. But he didn't. He chose more drama.
My issue with Kaep is simply this: he voluntarily took actions that had repercussions and then presented himself as a martyr because of those repercussions. He shot himself in the foot and now wants us to believe he's an innocent victim of a shooting. That's what I have a problem with. And all along he's sending mixed messages - says he wants to play but at the same time chooses courses of action that sabotage that objective. I'm not buying it, and I'm just pretty much over it now.
11-21-2019 | 08:31 AM
#831
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 27,997
Likes: 1,318
From: Miami, FL
I heard Bomani Jones' ESPN podcast detailing some of the details such as getting a venue to let him practice and the personnel. Not to mention, keeping himself in shape for 3 years so there was a lot of effort to even have the backup practice setup. I'd argue, he never intended to do the league's workout. Does it look bad, sure at face value. I disagree that he doesn't want to play but I do think he knows he'll NEVER play again. He effectively put the ball back in the league's court. I also don't have a care if he plays or not. Just an interesting subject to me.
11-21-2019 | 08:36 AM
#832
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 27,997
Likes: 1,318
From: Miami, FL
I think we both agree it was a sham.
I don't get how the next best venue was 60 miles away. That's just pissing off the very people he's trying to impress. And I'm not an expert in what waiver he was being asked to sign or why it matters who took the video. And what exactly is he protecting himself from? Not playing in the NFL?
I'm not biased - if he wants to play, and can play, I wish him the best. I think there are lots of teams who would be willing to give him a look. But he doesn't appear to JUST want to play. He wants the league to rise and meet his terms. He wants to be an advocate. He wants attention. If he's really that talented, then the only conclusion is that it's the drama that's keeping him out of the league. So if he really wants in, he needed to shed the drama and just shut up and play. But he didn't. He chose more drama.
My issue with Kaep is simply this: he voluntarily took actions that had repercussions and then presented himself as a martyr because of those repercussions. He shot himself in the foot and now wants us to believe he's an innocent victim of a shooting. That's what I have a problem with. And all along he's sending mixed messages - says he wants to play but at the same time chooses courses of action that sabotage that objective. I'm not buying it, and I'm just pretty much over it now.
I don't get how the next best venue was 60 miles away. That's just pissing off the very people he's trying to impress. And I'm not an expert in what waiver he was being asked to sign or why it matters who took the video. And what exactly is he protecting himself from? Not playing in the NFL?
I'm not biased - if he wants to play, and can play, I wish him the best. I think there are lots of teams who would be willing to give him a look. But he doesn't appear to JUST want to play. He wants the league to rise and meet his terms. He wants to be an advocate. He wants attention. If he's really that talented, then the only conclusion is that it's the drama that's keeping him out of the league. So if he really wants in, he needed to shed the drama and just shut up and play. But he didn't. He chose more drama.
My issue with Kaep is simply this: he voluntarily took actions that had repercussions and then presented himself as a martyr because of those repercussions. He shot himself in the foot and now wants us to believe he's an innocent victim of a shooting. That's what I have a problem with. And all along he's sending mixed messages - says he wants to play but at the same time chooses courses of action that sabotage that objective. I'm not buying it, and I'm just pretty much over it now.
11-21-2019 | 09:42 AM
#833
Old Man Yelling at Clouds
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,973
Likes: 7,362
From: Seattle, WA
Forgot to address this. Play out the scenario. Kaep plays ball and shows up to the league's practice. He runs his drills, scouts watch, blah blah, nobody signs him. Nobody outside of the practice sees film. Maybe some scouts leak he's good, maybe some as a favor to the NFL leak he's bad. No transparency to why he doesn't get signed. He protects himself from the league carrying the narrative of why he doesn't get signed, because he won't get signed regardless. Remember, his practice was like an hour after. He can't just go walk into a local school and stage a workout there. Cops would've shut that shit down. This was all planned.
11-21-2019 | 10:05 AM
#834
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 27,997
Likes: 1,318
From: Miami, FL
Not discounting your idea, but it sounds like it realistically wasn't an option. Probably more physical limitation issue such as if he gets hurt during NFL workout or not fresh. Maybe the NFL's workout idea wasn't optimal. Maybe he couldn't reserve the school he actually used for a later time. I can throw it a million reasons, but I haven't heard an argument for him to do both workouts so I can't intelligently respond to that. Really not a reason for him to play ball considering they took 3 years of his prime career and have a record of not backing out i.e. Brady.
11-21-2019 | 11:35 AM
#835
Old Man Yelling at Clouds
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 16,973
Likes: 7,362
From: Seattle, WA
Not discounting your idea, but it sounds like it realistically wasn't an option. Probably more physical limitation issue such as if he gets hurt during NFL workout or not fresh. Maybe the NFL's workout idea wasn't optimal. Maybe he couldn't reserve the school he actually used for a later time. I can throw it a million reasons, but I haven't heard an argument for him to do both workouts so I can't intelligently respond to that. Really not a reason for him to play ball considering they took 3 years of his prime career and have a record of not backing out i.e. Brady.
The way I see it is Kaeps behavior was costing his employer money. So now we have to ask the question, what employer out there will retain an employee that costs the company money? No one would, regardless of the skill level. Someone can have all the skills in the world but if they lose money then why would a company have that person on the payroll? The reason I think he's not had many chances over the last 3 years is because he (to my knowledge) has given no indication he's willing to stop the activity that costs the NFL money. I think if he were on a team today, and just wouldn't kneel, there would be no issue and everyone would be over it. But I've never heard him say once "I'm willing to stop my pre-game protest in order to rejoin the league". And I think he doesn't want to stop - he wants the NFL to change and bend to what he wants, not bend to what the NFL wants.
No employee has the means to force an employer to hire them if their presence loses money. Kaep has no leg to stand on here. But he's trying to play the "woe is me, I'm the maligned martyr being persecuted by the league" card in order to get enough public pressure going to force the NFL to take him back at a loss. Not going to happen.
I absolutely support what Kaep was trying to do - his cause was just. But he made his own decisions here that's led to this point. The NFL is a place of business, not a non-for-profit platform for player causes.
11-21-2019 | 11:55 AM
#836
Senior Moderator
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 31,897
Likes: 7,249
From: Austin, TX
“He shot himself in the foot” is an interesting way to characterize refusing to bend his principals to his employers whim because it’s “costing them money”.
That sounds like borderline gas lighting. Like he made the NFL shoot his foot. It’s not their fault.
That sounds like borderline gas lighting. Like he made the NFL shoot his foot. It’s not their fault.
11-21-2019 | 12:31 PM
#838
Team Owner
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 27,997
Likes: 1,318
From: Miami, FL
Ok new controversial topic
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...ng-racial-slur
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/...ng-racial-slur
In an appeal hearing with the NFL on Wednesday, Cleveland Browns defensive end Myles Garrett alleged that Mason Rudolph called him a racial slur just prior to last week's brawl on "Thursday Night Football," sources told ESPN's Josina Anderson and Adam Schefter, an accusation the Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback strongly denies.
"Mason vehemently denies the report of being accused of using a racial slur during the incident Thursday night in Cleveland," Steelers spokesman Burt Lauten said in a statement. "He will not discuss this accusation any further and his focus remains on preparation for Sunday's game against the Cincinnati Bengals."
Contacted after the allegations were reported, Rudolph's attorney Timothy M. Younger said: "According to ESPN, in his appeal, Myles Garrett falsely asserted that Mason Rudolph uttered a racial slur toward him, prior to swinging a helmet at Mason's uncovered head, in a desperate attempt to mitigate his suspension. This is a lie. This false allegation was never asserted by Garrett in the aftermath of the game, never suggested prior to the hearing, and conspicuously absent in the apology published by the Browns and adopted by Garrett.
"The malicious use of this wild and unfounded allegation is an assault on Mason's integrity which is far worse than the physical assault witnessed on Thursday. This is reckless and shameful. We will have no further comment."
Garrett made the allegation as part of his initial comments during the appeal hearing in New York, sources said. It created an argumentative exchange between both sides about whether the allegation was permissible.
When the allegation was made, appeals officer James Thrash remained stoic and took copious notes, sources said. He did ask Garrett a question about how he might act differently in the future, and Garrett conveyed he would not let events escalate like that again in the future.
Garrett was suspended indefinitely for ripping off and swinging Rudolph's helmet, hitting the quarterback in the head with it, with seconds remaining in last Thursday's game. In announcing Garrett's suspension Friday, the NFL also said that Garrett would have to meet with the commissioner's office before being reinstated.
Rudolph hasn't been punished over the incident, but a source told ESPN that a fine is expected. Rudolph said he would comply with whatever the league hands out.
Sources told ESPN that Garrett had informed some in the Browns organization that he was going to assert some sensitive information as part of his appeal.
A source told ESPN's Dan Graziano that Garrett also used a precedent-based argument during the appeal hearing, citing the NFL's punishment of former Houston Texans defensive end Antonio Smith, who was suspended in 2013 for two preseason games and one regular-season game for swinging his helmet at then-Miami Dolphins offensive lineman Richie Incognito.
Garrett and the NFLPA also argued that an indefinite suspension is not permitted under the league's collective bargaining agreement, according to the source.
Two other players were suspended from the brawl. Steelers center Maurkice Pouncey received a three-game suspension for punching and kicking Garrett, and Browns defensive tackle Larry Ogunjobi received a one-game suspension for shoving Rudolph.
Ogunjobi's ban was upheld by Thrash on Wednesday. A decision on appeals by Garrett and Pouncey are expected to be issued this week.
"Mason vehemently denies the report of being accused of using a racial slur during the incident Thursday night in Cleveland," Steelers spokesman Burt Lauten said in a statement. "He will not discuss this accusation any further and his focus remains on preparation for Sunday's game against the Cincinnati Bengals."
EDITOR'S PICKS
On Wednesday, Rudolph told reporters he didn't say anything to provoke Garrett or escalate the situation.
Contacted after the allegations were reported, Rudolph's attorney Timothy M. Younger said: "According to ESPN, in his appeal, Myles Garrett falsely asserted that Mason Rudolph uttered a racial slur toward him, prior to swinging a helmet at Mason's uncovered head, in a desperate attempt to mitigate his suspension. This is a lie. This false allegation was never asserted by Garrett in the aftermath of the game, never suggested prior to the hearing, and conspicuously absent in the apology published by the Browns and adopted by Garrett.
"The malicious use of this wild and unfounded allegation is an assault on Mason's integrity which is far worse than the physical assault witnessed on Thursday. This is reckless and shameful. We will have no further comment."
Garrett made the allegation as part of his initial comments during the appeal hearing in New York, sources said. It created an argumentative exchange between both sides about whether the allegation was permissible.
When the allegation was made, appeals officer James Thrash remained stoic and took copious notes, sources said. He did ask Garrett a question about how he might act differently in the future, and Garrett conveyed he would not let events escalate like that again in the future.
Garrett was suspended indefinitely for ripping off and swinging Rudolph's helmet, hitting the quarterback in the head with it, with seconds remaining in last Thursday's game. In announcing Garrett's suspension Friday, the NFL also said that Garrett would have to meet with the commissioner's office before being reinstated.
Rudolph hasn't been punished over the incident, but a source told ESPN that a fine is expected. Rudolph said he would comply with whatever the league hands out.
Sources told ESPN that Garrett had informed some in the Browns organization that he was going to assert some sensitive information as part of his appeal.
A source told ESPN's Dan Graziano that Garrett also used a precedent-based argument during the appeal hearing, citing the NFL's punishment of former Houston Texans defensive end Antonio Smith, who was suspended in 2013 for two preseason games and one regular-season game for swinging his helmet at then-Miami Dolphins offensive lineman Richie Incognito.
Garrett and the NFLPA also argued that an indefinite suspension is not permitted under the league's collective bargaining agreement, according to the source.
Two other players were suspended from the brawl. Steelers center Maurkice Pouncey received a three-game suspension for punching and kicking Garrett, and Browns defensive tackle Larry Ogunjobi received a one-game suspension for shoving Rudolph.
Ogunjobi's ban was upheld by Thrash on Wednesday. A decision on appeals by Garrett and Pouncey are expected to be issued this week.
