NFL: 2014 Season News and Discussion Thread
02-02-2015, 11:31 AM
#1481
Trolling Canuckistan
True but not the point. The issue is the play call, had it worked its "genius" when it doesn't it's "the worst play call in the history of 4eva!!!!!!"
02-02-2015, 11:31 AM
#1482
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02-02-2015, 11:32 AM
#1483
Team Owner
The issue with the play is that no one was expecting run, they were all expecting exactly what Seattle attempted to execute. That's why Butler knew exactly what route to jump. There was no genius to it whatsoever.
02-02-2015, 11:34 AM
#1484
Team Owner
It is a shame that a great player's game was decided by such a singularly dunderheaded coaching error.
02-02-2015, 11:34 AM
#1485
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I hear ya, but what would everyone's reaction have been if giving it to Lynch resulted in a fumble? I agree probably not the high percentage call with the pass, but on any given Sunday..........
02-02-2015, 11:36 AM
#1486
Team Owner
02-02-2015, 11:37 AM
#1487
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02-02-2015, 11:39 AM
#1488
Team Owner
He should've audibled out of it? It wasn't a poorly thrown ball.
You have to know deep down inside that if the Cawks had done the smart thing, we'd probably be talking about how New England was downed for a third time by a single fluke catch that sealed the game for their opponent.
You have to know deep down inside that if the Cawks had done the smart thing, we'd probably be talking about how New England was downed for a third time by a single fluke catch that sealed the game for their opponent.
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02-02-2015, 11:41 AM
#1489
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As bad as a call it was, I'm glad it was made 
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02-02-2015, 11:46 AM
#1490
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He should've audibled out of it? It wasn't a poorly thrown ball.
You have to know deep down inside that if the Cawks had done the smart thing, we'd probably be talking about how New England was downed for a third time by a single fluke catch that sealed the game for their opponent.
You have to know deep down inside that if the Cawks had done the smart thing, we'd probably be talking about how New England was downed for a third time by a single fluke catch that sealed the game for their opponent.
It's easy to second guess.
Agreed
02-02-2015, 12:18 PM
#1491
I don't think it was that bad of a call. A quick slant is a high percentage pass play, it's just that Butler saw it coming from the start. It was more of a good play by the defender than a bad call by the offense.
But if you ask me, of course I would have given it to Lynch
it doesn't matter if they see it coming. You have one of the best short yardage RBs...
But if you ask me, of course I would have given it to Lynch
it doesn't matter if they see it coming. You have one of the best short yardage RBs...
02-02-2015, 12:21 PM
#1492
Team Owner
i lost $300...
I still don't understand the call.... if it was 4th.. ok... but it was 2nd and 1 !!!!!!
I still don't understand the call.... if it was 4th.. ok... but it was 2nd and 1 !!!!!!
02-02-2015, 12:26 PM
#1493
Old Man Yelling at Clouds
But for all the talk about the last play:
a) We let Brady drive the field twice and come back from a 10 point deficit - stop either drive and we win
b) We had two possessions in the 4th that went 3 and out - if we did nothing but take 4-5 min off the clock with either possession, we win.
But really that was the type of game it was - you can make the same list for the Patriots (if only we had done X....). The real heartbreak is that when Kearse caught that ball there was real hope. I mean real, we have a no kidding chance to win kind of hope. And it disappeared in 2 seconds.
I think that high to low is what led to the next play, and the scrum afterwards. I don't think much about the next play either (the encroachment). Sure if we score a safety we get the ball with about 20 seconds to work with it. That's just a miracle scenario.
In the end I thought it was a great throw - it was just a better defensive play. But svtmike is right - either we are talking about the miracle catch from Kearse, or the miracle defensive play from Butler. Either way, the game ends with a nail-biter. And if we'd scored, there would be a lot of woulda-coulda-shoulda talk in New England too. Probably along the lines of, "you know the Hawks would run Lynch in the end - how could you not stop it?".
a) We let Brady drive the field twice and come back from a 10 point deficit - stop either drive and we win
b) We had two possessions in the 4th that went 3 and out - if we did nothing but take 4-5 min off the clock with either possession, we win.
But really that was the type of game it was - you can make the same list for the Patriots (if only we had done X....). The real heartbreak is that when Kearse caught that ball there was real hope. I mean real, we have a no kidding chance to win kind of hope. And it disappeared in 2 seconds.
I think that high to low is what led to the next play, and the scrum afterwards. I don't think much about the next play either (the encroachment). Sure if we score a safety we get the ball with about 20 seconds to work with it. That's just a miracle scenario.
In the end I thought it was a great throw - it was just a better defensive play. But svtmike is right - either we are talking about the miracle catch from Kearse, or the miracle defensive play from Butler. Either way, the game ends with a nail-biter. And if we'd scored, there would be a lot of woulda-coulda-shoulda talk in New England too. Probably along the lines of, "you know the Hawks would run Lynch in the end - how could you not stop it?".
Last edited by 1Louder; 02-02-2015 at 12:29 PM.
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02-02-2015, 12:35 PM
#1494
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02-02-2015, 12:39 PM
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02-02-2015, 01:13 PM
#1496
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Not really. Collinsworth and everyone else wants to say, "you got three tries for Lynch to get a yard," but not really. 20 seconds and 1 timeout = 2 running plays, not three. With three downs, they gamble one with a very low risk pass. It works, you win. It doesn't work, the clock stops. Only a freak play could mess up the plan, and that's what happened.
Essentially this:
Essentially this:
02-02-2015, 01:15 PM
#1497
If the slant had worked, Carroll would be a genius for going against the odds.
02-02-2015, 01:16 PM
#1498
Team Owner
Not really. Collinsworth and everyone else wants to say, "you got three tries for Lynch to get a yard," but not really. 20 seconds and 1 timeout = 2 running plays, not three. With three downs, they gamble one with a very low risk pass. It works, you win. It doesn't work, the clock stops. Only a freak play could mess up the plan, and that's what happened.
02-02-2015, 01:26 PM
#1500
Senior Moderator
But for all the talk about the last play:
a) We let Brady drive the field twice and come back from a 10 point deficit - stop either drive and we win
b) We had two possessions in the 4th that went 3 and out - if we did nothing but take 4-5 min off the clock with either possession, we win.
But really that was the type of game it was - you can make the same list for the Patriots (if only we had done X....). The real heartbreak is that when Kearse caught that ball there was real hope. I mean real, we have a no kidding chance to win kind of hope. And it disappeared in 2 seconds.
I think that high to low is what led to the next play, and the scrum afterwards. I don't think much about the next play either (the encroachment). Sure if we score a safety we get the ball with about 20 seconds to work with it. That's just a miracle scenario.
In the end I thought it was a great throw - it was just a better defensive play. But svtmike is right - either we are talking about the miracle catch from Kearse, or the miracle defensive play from Butler. Either way, the game ends with a nail-biter. And if we'd scored, there would be a lot of woulda-coulda-shoulda talk in New England too. Probably along the lines of, "you know the Hawks would run Lynch in the end - how could you not stop it?".
a) We let Brady drive the field twice and come back from a 10 point deficit - stop either drive and we win
b) We had two possessions in the 4th that went 3 and out - if we did nothing but take 4-5 min off the clock with either possession, we win.
But really that was the type of game it was - you can make the same list for the Patriots (if only we had done X....). The real heartbreak is that when Kearse caught that ball there was real hope. I mean real, we have a no kidding chance to win kind of hope. And it disappeared in 2 seconds.
I think that high to low is what led to the next play, and the scrum afterwards. I don't think much about the next play either (the encroachment). Sure if we score a safety we get the ball with about 20 seconds to work with it. That's just a miracle scenario.
In the end I thought it was a great throw - it was just a better defensive play. But svtmike is right - either we are talking about the miracle catch from Kearse, or the miracle defensive play from Butler. Either way, the game ends with a nail-biter. And if we'd scored, there would be a lot of woulda-coulda-shoulda talk in New England too. Probably along the lines of, "you know the Hawks would run Lynch in the end - how could you not stop it?".
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02-02-2015, 01:54 PM
#1501
Senior Moderator
Disagree about what? I wasn't saying it was the best call. I was only explaining the logic. If they run twice with Lunch, he gets stuffed, and the clock runs out on 4th and goal, then everyone questions how they could have used that 3rd play. Just about anything can happen on any play. 3 plays gives you 50% more chance to score than 2, and therein lies the logic. It wasn't illogical, just ill advised. 
02-02-2015, 01:59 PM
#1502
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Damn speaking of lunch... Getting hungry here 
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02-02-2015, 02:01 PM
#1503
Trolling Canuckistan
“I’m a coach and I had a deal with our trainers and doctors." "They’re the medical experts and they don’t call plays, and I’m the coach and I don’t get involved in the medical part. When they clear players to play, then if we want to play them we play them. The plays we call, I don’t have to get approval from them. It’s a good setup.”
02-02-2015, 02:05 PM
#1504
Team Owner
02-02-2015, 02:06 PM
#1505
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02-02-2015, 02:17 PM
#1506
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02-02-2015, 02:17 PM
#1507
Senior Moderator
02-02-2015, 02:18 PM
#1508
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02-02-2015, 02:33 PM
#1509
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02-02-2015, 03:08 PM
#1510
Suzuka Master
02-02-2015, 03:33 PM
#1511
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02-02-2015, 07:40 PM
#1512
Old Man Yelling at Clouds
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02-02-2015, 07:45 PM
#1513
Old Man Yelling at Clouds
Richard Sherman signed a 4 year / $56,000,000 contract with the Seattle Seahawks, including a $11,000,000 signing bonus, $40,000,000 guaranteed, and an annual average salary of $14,000,000.
I'm sure he'll give the "loser" meme a lot of thought sitting in his bathtub full of money.
02-02-2015, 07:56 PM
#1514
Banned
Dude is a talented CB, got lots of money, good education, and a career after this one in TV waiting.
It actually is a shame to me that he takes the role of douchebag. He could be such a more impactful role model.
It actually is a shame to me that he takes the role of douchebag. He could be such a more impactful role model.
02-02-2015, 08:53 PM
#1515
Trolling Canuckistan
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02-02-2015, 09:27 PM
#1516
Senior Moderator
My brother brought up this statistic today too - I wasn't aware the success rate was that low. And now that I'm less emotional about it, you know the coaching staff is aware of this statistic too. They are not stupid either. They would have called something that had greater than 20% chance of success. Now as for throwing it over the middle, I think the rolling Wilson out on a run/pass option would have been a better use of the first play they had, because he can throw it away if need be. Over the middle you either throw a strike, or there are a lot of people in white jerseys around to catch a tipped ball. But if I was so smart I'd be making millions coaching in the NFL.
Questioning the logic of the pass or the call itself is the epitome of armchair quarterbacking. It isn't really even a metaphor in this case. You don't have a lot to be disappointed about, Louder. Butler made the play of the year, and it's unfortunate for you he plays for NE.
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02-02-2015, 09:35 PM
#1517
Old Man Yelling at Clouds
This goes a lot along the lines of what I was saying. The only issue is rolling out and then throwing a pass, and usually a bootleg pass is a lob, takes a lot of time. An average football play takes 6 seconds. You have 20 and three plays. Going with a quick slant over the middle takes ~2 seconds from snap to the receiver touching the ball. Account for game clock error, and you are looking at a 3-4 second play versus a 6-10 second play with the bootleg. I realize the last play needs only 1 second, but this is why we don't make the millions. No one in here would have made a better call in that situation.
Questioning the logic of the pass or the call itself is the epitome of armchair quarterbacking. It isn't really even a metaphor in this case. You don't have a lot to be disappointed about, Louder. Butler made the play of the year, and it's unfortunate for you he plays for NE.
Questioning the logic of the pass or the call itself is the epitome of armchair quarterbacking. It isn't really even a metaphor in this case. You don't have a lot to be disappointed about, Louder. Butler made the play of the year, and it's unfortunate for you he plays for NE.
02-02-2015, 10:01 PM
#1518
Senior Moderator
02-03-2015, 12:46 AM
#1519
Trolling Canuckistan
Imagine Belichick had called a timeout in hopes of saving seconds for Tom Brady. The Seahawks would have had enough time to hand off the ball three times without fear of the clock running out, particularly because they had a timeout of their own.
But with Belichick allowing the clock to tick, Seattle’s calculus became more complex, especially as they used almost the entire play clock. They did not snap the ball until there were 26 seconds left in the game. If Seattle ran on second down and the Patriots stuffed them, the Seahawks would have needed to use their final timeout immediately, with about 20 seconds remaining.
The situation would have dictated their ensuing third down. The Seahawks would have no choice but to pass, or else they would have risked the clock running out on their season. The Patriots would have known this, too, which would have made the play far easier to defend. On a potential fourth down, the Seahawks would have had their entire playbook at their disposal.
But with Belichick allowing the clock to tick, Seattle’s calculus became more complex, especially as they used almost the entire play clock. They did not snap the ball until there were 26 seconds left in the game. If Seattle ran on second down and the Patriots stuffed them, the Seahawks would have needed to use their final timeout immediately, with about 20 seconds remaining.
The situation would have dictated their ensuing third down. The Seahawks would have no choice but to pass, or else they would have risked the clock running out on their season. The Patriots would have known this, too, which would have made the play far easier to defend. On a potential fourth down, the Seahawks would have had their entire playbook at their disposal.
02-03-2015, 03:01 AM
#1520
I'm glad Seattle lost TBH. I can't stand there fairweather fans... worst than Dallas. :x And I hate Sherman and his loud mouth.
On the other hand, I've been following Brady since his Michigan days and has always been a fan. Not a Pats fan, but its hard to dislike Brady. He's one of the best at QB ever, humble, and very classy. I can't say the same for tons of other players nowadays in the NFL.
On the other hand, I've been following Brady since his Michigan days and has always been a fan. Not a Pats fan, but its hard to dislike Brady. He's one of the best at QB ever, humble, and very classy. I can't say the same for tons of other players nowadays in the NFL.
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