I'll be happy to merge them if I had mod powers. But I'd have to mod the unborn Sports section.

 

Anyway, they won't send him to Miami (or any other eastern conference contender). I think the Lakers could use him, unless Phil just isn't in the mood after coming back to try again with Kobe.

 

i dont remember many of his games, but I know he was a very good player. regardless, he wont be remembered for it

 

I remember 2 things about Barkley:
1. Dribbling the ball for about 15 sec. while using his massive ass to back down the defender closer and closer to the basket, and
2. Shaq taking a full swing at him and missing his melon head by mere inches. (Oh what could have been).

 

You stated "don't tell me championships aren't crucial to a player's legacy."
That's false and I used Bonds and Marino as prime examples.

Please, you are the one grasping for straws. My arguement is solid based on statistics. Your arguement is based purely on opinion and speculation.

 

your examples suck balls.

bonds will never be as great a player as he would with a championship (in the eyes of fans and media)...steroid issue aside.

marino will always be in elway's shadow because he could never win a championship.

if my opinion is supported by the majority, it's hardly speculation.

 

That's why there is no argument. It's a disagreement of opinions. You can't convince him to change his opinion no matter how idiotic it sounds to you. There is no exact answer on how you merit someone to be good or remembered. We agree that you judge a player by their individual skills where he judges by team accomplishments. You'll just turn blue in the face. Let it go.

 

but, i still want him to prove that there exists another 2 guard that is better than kobe in the league today. THAT was the initial debate, and he keeps skirting around it like a sunset strip whore looking for crack.

especially since he's so focused on statistics. championshiop rings are the biggest statistic of them all my young and naive friend.

 

Hearsay. I've heard of several media outlets, writers, etc say that he's the greatest baseball player ever(steroids aside). Even greater than Babe Ruth who has rings.

I've also heard the same with Marino. Since we're speculating majority polls, I've seen many polls asking who is the greatest QB of all time. The majority of the time, well actually all the ones I've seen don't even include Elway on the list. See how using majority and hearsay don't support anything.

 

well, there would be no debate at all if they had a world series win, or a superbowl victory to their name.

 

Bonds will be a hall of famer. Ever heard of the old saying, bad publicity is good publicity? Take Pete Rose for example, he is remembered for his gambling. He should be a hall of famer, but he is still a well known name after all these years.

Superstars don't win championships, except in sports like Tennis and Golf. In basketball or baseball, teams win championships. You are way too hung up in saying X player won championships, etc etc.

Who supports your opinion? Slayer

 

DWAYNE WADE......Stated that a long time ago.

You remember players like Bill Cartwright and BJ Armstrong? Or how about Jud Buechler?

 

wow? really?

 

huh? are you saying BJ was a better 2 guard than kobe?

dwayne wade, at his current level of skill and experience, is not a better all around player than kobe. sorry, come again.

 

No, those guys I named have rings on their finger. They all are Bulls players from the Championship era.

I can name guys in the NBA who are just as skilled as Kobe, but you are a K.B fan and won't entertain anything else. The Lakers are starting the season off well!!

FYI....Look at Wades Efficiency rating versus Kobe.

 

@ "Barkley" and "great player" in the same sentence.

 

we're talking about superstars, no role players.

why don't you name the guys then, instead of dodging the issue. and while you're at it, since you're so caught up in playoff statistics, why don't you name those players with their stats and results in championship series? that's what i thought.

 

Again, I named Dwayne Wade. You are obviously a Kobe nutswinger, so again you won't look at the whole picture. In the playoffs, Wade's numbers are slightly better. I suggest you do some research on NBA.com.

If Kobe was "close" to Jordan, he would perform in the playoffs. He would also have Championship MVP trophies. The closest arguement is plain stupid.

 

Not really. Bonds is debated between him and Ruth because of his numbers. Even if Bonds had a ring they'd still debate it. Same for Marino. If your logic held true than Marino would be considered the unanimous greatest QB even if he had at least 1 ring and his already top stats. It would still be debated regardless if he had 0 or 10 rings.

 

Check the list of 50 Greatest Players of All Time and get back to me. KThx!

 

BS....He never won a championship

 

Yep, I see him.

Right next to Patrick Ewing and Bill Walton.

 

at the last 2 posts. Bill Walton has a ring though.

 

http://www.misterpoll.com/3030030813.html

i see elway in a strong lead versus marino.

 

another:

http://www.misterpoll.com/results.mpl?id=350868130

 

Joe Namith? Not a good sign for the legitimacy of this website.

 

the site doesn't create the polls, it just serves as a medium for random users to create and vote on. not their fault the creator can't spell right.

 

you are dumb. bonds will be remembered for the scandal just as much as his play, if not more. marino is one of the best quarterbacks EVER, and had tons of records. He is one player that will be remembered even though he didnt get a ring. karl malone, stockton, artest, barkley, were as good as marino in his sport. the very very top has exceptions.

and you are dead wrong on the kobe arguement. I do not like the lakers or kobe more than any other team (except maybe the cavs). I am a diehard bulls fan. I think dwade is a great player, but not as good as kobe.

btw, you mentioned a couple of players with rings. sounds like you are trying to say they will not remembered regardless of their rings? is that correct? well I think they will be remembered more than just any other player who isnt a star. bill cartwright will be remembered more than a tayshaun prince or antwan jamison.

 

Randle Cunningham and Bart Star are the best. Nice spellings.

Well GT will say Namath is there because he has a ring that even though he has more career picks than TD's. I don't see it that way. Back to my point of arguing opinions on what makes a player great. I wouldn't vote for "Namith" because of his stats.

Like I said, I've seen polls in magazines or on TV that have Marino better, Elway not mentioned, or Elway better. It can go either way based on the poller's opinion. You pick one garbage poll. Hearsay doesn't mean anything.

Read my point again, GT.

If your logic held true then Marino would be considered the unanimous greatest QB even if he had at least 1 ring and his already top stats. It would still be debated regardless if he had 0 or 10 rings.

 

You guys go back and forth on:

1. who's good
2. what he'll be remembered by

These are 2 totally different things. Yes, Barkley will be remembered for being an egotistical NBA analyst. Does that mean he's no better than player X? That's two different arguments.

Slayer sounds like he says Bonds is good. He is right in saying that he will be remembered for the steroids thing. It sounds like he is saying that Bonds is good but will be remembered for the roids. I hope I clarified that.

 

and, once again you're putting words in my mouth. all i'm saying is that between elway and marino, people will tend to remember elway because of his superbowl rings. i'm not saying he put up better stats than marino cause he didn't, but he did win it all, and that is a huge +1 in his favor.

 

who is better, kobe or tmac? they are pretty similar statistically and both are amazing players, but kobe will be rememebered as much better

 

I think Kobe will be remembered better because he has been on the better team. If Tmac was on the Lakers they would of had the same results. I like Tmac better since he is not a whiney baby

 

ok, but kobe had the better team and won a title, which is why he will be remembered better, regardless of who is actually better

 

Kobe=joke

 

Forget it, you're too defensive. I'm not putting words in your mouth (supposedly again). You said:

Scenario: Marino with 10 rings, Elway with 2. People would still debate that Elway was better. Your above post (no words in your mouth) says that there would be no debate. Once again I say there still would be if it were 10-2, 0-0, 2-0, 0-2. That's it. No words inserted.

 

Back to the subject. Heat win by 3. Squeak out against the Bulls. Shaq has 30 points, 7 boards. He's done.

 

I have been impressed with the Bulls this year. They took SA to OT and lost by 9. Then they beat SA at home, which doesn't happen often. Now, they lost to the Heat by only 3. They are proving that they can hang with the best. Can't wait until the playoffs.

 

we (ny) should propose q. richardson and someone BESIDES

crawford, frye, robinson or rose. i wonder if eddie curry is actually

going to be consistent for his entire contract. get stephon marbury off of our

team. i think larry bird is smart enough to not want marbury on his team though.

what to do?? knicks need someone else, and need to get rid of marbury quickly

 

But, who'd the Lakers offer? Odom? And can Artest co-exist with Kobeaballhog?





And oh, :ibtmergewithNBAthread: