NBA: 2010 Season News and Discussion Thread **Dallas Wins Title 4-2 (page 84)**
11-03-2010, 09:29 AM
#121
Naturally ASpirated!
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: SoCAL 714/619
Age: 38
Posts: 458
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Im curious how the heats are gonna end up... Are they going to have success like the Celtics (KG, PP, and ray) or turn out to be like the Blazers... (Sheed, Pippen, Stoudamire, Smith.. etc etc)
11-03-2010, 09:29 AM
#122
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
11-03-2010, 09:30 AM
#123
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Defense wins championships and let's see how the squad plays down the stretch.
11-03-2010, 04:07 PM
#125
Team Owner
Sure he was in Toronto and as Dom knows gets no fanfare other than Raptor fans. How's he not a superstar?
Bosh 20.1 PPG 9.4 RPG .491 FG% .796% career
Amare 21.4 8.9 .543 .757
Dirk 22.9 8.5 .474 .876
Gasol 18.8 9.0 .521 .743
11-03-2010, 05:12 PM
#126
^^I think its more important that he fits a system to his potential and to the system's potential. To that end, stats don't tell the whole story. I never thought Dirk fit with Nash because Dirk didn't need a point guard....whereas Amare, Marion, etc, need a nash to handle the ball and create opportunities for them.
Gasol, for instance isn't necessarily a superstar in many people's eyes and he's still called soft. His individual stats are lowest amongst your examples. However, the most important stat is that since he has joined the Lakers, they have won 91% of their games. He really helps center the offense, and has, when called upon, played stellar defense against many bigs (vs. KG and Dwight in the finals of all times). He fits better than stats will ever tell.
I think Bosh was a big free agent piece, but I don't think he was anywhere near Lebron or Wade. Him and Amare were that second tier of free agents. And with regards to this year, he seems a little lost at this point. I'm sure it can change towards the end of the year, but its still valid that its currently a 'Big 2'. Its all semantics anyways.
Gasol, for instance isn't necessarily a superstar in many people's eyes and he's still called soft. His individual stats are lowest amongst your examples. However, the most important stat is that since he has joined the Lakers, they have won 91% of their games. He really helps center the offense, and has, when called upon, played stellar defense against many bigs (vs. KG and Dwight in the finals of all times). He fits better than stats will ever tell.
I think Bosh was a big free agent piece, but I don't think he was anywhere near Lebron or Wade. Him and Amare were that second tier of free agents. And with regards to this year, he seems a little lost at this point. I'm sure it can change towards the end of the year, but its still valid that its currently a 'Big 2'. Its all semantics anyways.
Last edited by CarbonGray Earl; 11-03-2010 at 05:16 PM.
11-03-2010, 05:17 PM
#127
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
^^I think its more important that he fits a system to his potential and to the system's potential. To that end, stats don't tell the whole story. I never thought Dirk fit with Nash because Dirk didn't need a point guard....whereas Amare, Marion, etc, need a nash to handle the ball and create opportunities for them.
Gasol, for instance isn't necessarily a superstar in many people's eyes and he's still called soft. His individual stats are lowest amongst your examples. However, the most important stat is that since he has joined the Lakers, they have won 91% of their games. He really helps center the offense, and has, when called upon, played stellar defense against many bigs (vs. KG and Dwight in the finals of all times). He fits better than stats will ever tell.
I think Bosh was a big free agent piece, but I don't think he was anywhere near Lebron or Wade. Him and Amare were that second tier of free agents. And with regards to this year, he seems a little lost at this point. I'm sure it can change towards the end of the year, but its still valid that its currently a 'Big 2'. Its all semantics anyways.
Gasol, for instance isn't necessarily a superstar in many people's eyes and he's still called soft. His individual stats are lowest amongst your examples. However, the most important stat is that since he has joined the Lakers, they have won 91% of their games. He really helps center the offense, and has, when called upon, played stellar defense against many bigs (vs. KG and Dwight in the finals of all times). He fits better than stats will ever tell.
I think Bosh was a big free agent piece, but I don't think he was anywhere near Lebron or Wade. Him and Amare were that second tier of free agents. And with regards to this year, he seems a little lost at this point. I'm sure it can change towards the end of the year, but its still valid that its currently a 'Big 2'. Its all semantics anyways.
11-03-2010, 07:38 PM
#128
Gasol, for instance isn't necessarily a superstar in many people's eyes and he's still called soft. His individual stats are lowest amongst your examples. However, the most important stat is that since he has joined the Lakers, they have won 91% of their games. He really helps center the offense, and has, when called upon, played stellar defense against many bigs (vs. KG and Dwight in the finals of all times). He fits better than stats will ever tell.
^^I agree wholehartedly.
^^I agree wholehartedly.
11-04-2010, 08:00 AM
#129
Team Owner
And I've heard Gasol called a superstar and many circles as well. 
Give Bosh more time before you call him lost
. It's only been a week.
Bosh wasn't in the 2nd tier of FA's. It was LBJ, Wade, then him. Remember NY and Chi wanted him but settled for Amare and Boozer respectively. Then they wanted LBJ and got nobody. Seriously what other PF signed or not would be in higher demand this summer?
I agree that Bosh isn't at Wade's or LBJ's level but IMO he's a superstar. You guys are making it as there are only like 5 superstars in the league. Durant, Kobe, Wade, LBJ, and maybe Howard. Yet the Celtics were called the big 3 when Pierce and Allen were on pretty crappy teams. Both had awesome stats before they went to Boston. Mind you everone outside of this forum calls them the Big 3. Again, there are wayyy too many stats to support Bosh's inclusion.
Give Bosh more time before you call him lost
. It's only been a week. Bosh wasn't in the 2nd tier of FA's. It was LBJ, Wade, then him. Remember NY and Chi wanted him but settled for Amare and Boozer respectively. Then they wanted LBJ and got nobody. Seriously what other PF signed or not would be in higher demand this summer?
I agree that Bosh isn't at Wade's or LBJ's level but IMO he's a superstar. You guys are making it as there are only like 5 superstars in the league. Durant, Kobe, Wade, LBJ, and maybe Howard. Yet the Celtics were called the big 3 when Pierce and Allen were on pretty crappy teams. Both had awesome stats before they went to Boston. Mind you everone outside of this forum calls them the Big 3. Again, there are wayyy too many stats to support Bosh's inclusion.
11-04-2010, 09:31 AM
#130
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
Noah > Bosh... 
11-04-2010, 09:53 AM
#131
Senior Moderator
I think Bosh is a superstar. He's top 5 in his position. He was the most coveted big man in free agency. On not great Toronto teams his career FG% is pretty darn good. He certainly had better early years than Gasol who was on bad Memphis teams before going to L.A. Neither had much help and Vince left when he was 20 in his 2nd year. 3 out the last 4 years Bosh averaged 20 and 10. Amare, Dirk, and Gasol have never done that in their careers. Basketball-reference.com has a formula called Player Efficiency Rating. Bosh is in the top 20 the last 5 years.
Sure he was in Toronto and as Dom knows gets no fanfare other than Raptor fans. How's he not a superstar?
Bosh 20.1 PPG 9.4 RPG .491 FG% .796% career
Amare 21.4 8.9 .543 .757
Dirk 22.9 8.5 .474 .876
Gasol 18.8 9.0 .521 .743
Sure he was in Toronto and as Dom knows gets no fanfare other than Raptor fans. How's he not a superstar?
Bosh 20.1 PPG 9.4 RPG .491 FG% .796% career
Amare 21.4 8.9 .543 .757
Dirk 22.9 8.5 .474 .876
Gasol 18.8 9.0 .521 .743
) I never said anything about him not being a superstar. He's a good offensive player. What I said was he can't play defense worth shit. You'll find that out as the season goes on. I'll admit the whole Raptor team was terrible at D so maybe it was a coaching thing but he's been terrible on D for 7 years.
A superstar? I may sound bitter but I just don't see it. Like someone mentioned, he's in that second level. No where near LBJ, Kobe, Durant. Maybe those guys are Elite superstars and there's a second rung.
11-04-2010, 09:59 AM
#132
Senior Moderator
Besides, those stats you speak of are non-existent. Bosh said it himself. All those 20/10 season's never actually happened because it wasn't shown on American TV.
Bosh told Toronto newspapers it was his desire for national exposure in the United States that helped fuel his move south.
“Really, it's all about being on TV at the end of the day,” Bosh said. “Seriously. A guy can average 20 (points) and 10 (rebounds), and nobody really cares. If you don't see it (on U.S. national TV), then it doesn't really happen.”
“Really, it's all about being on TV at the end of the day,” Bosh said. “Seriously. A guy can average 20 (points) and 10 (rebounds), and nobody really cares. If you don't see it (on U.S. national TV), then it doesn't really happen.”
11-04-2010, 10:00 AM
#133
Moderator Alumnus
11-04-2010, 10:10 AM
#135
Senior Moderator
Thread Starter
You forgot about Rose, you dingis.
11-04-2010, 02:46 PM
#138
Maybe Bosh should be asking this forum 'What should I do?'...
11-04-2010, 08:34 PM
#139
Bosh is a really good player. Keep in mind a player can have outstanding individual numbers but if those numbers consistently come on a subpar team then those numbers don't mean as much as a player with the similar numbers on a winning team. I think that's why players with outstanding numbers on subpar teams don't win MVP. In my opinion Bosh made out like a thief and although he's very good he's not worth what they paid him. The season is still early but so far he isn't changing my opinion.
11-05-2010, 07:35 AM
#141
Team Owner
Bosh is a really good player. Keep in mind a player can have outstanding individual numbers but if those numbers consistently come on a subpar team then those numbers don't mean as much as a player with the similar numbers on a winning team. I think that's why players with outstanding numbers on subpar teams don't win MVP. In my opinion Bosh made out like a thief and although he's very good he's not worth what they paid him. The season is still early but so far he isn't changing my opinion.
Mind you KG, who's probably the best post Karl Malone PF, didn't go deep into the playoffs until he was 27. That was his 8th year in the league. Then his teams didn't make the playoffs for 4 years. So you're telling me that KG is not a superstar either.
11-05-2010, 09:20 PM
#143
Your opinion probably won't change since he shares shots with the other guys so his stats will suffer. You're probably in the camp of guys who don't think Gasol is a superstar. Similar scenarios where a great player on bad team has good stats. Then goes to a great team and stats suffer but then is more recognized because of the team's success. You are penalizing Bosh for being on a franchise that no superstar wants to play for. The other stud PF's had great teams when their teams did well in the playoffs.
Mind you KG, who's probably the best post Karl Malone PF, didn't go deep into the playoffs until he was 27. That was his 8th year in the league. Then his teams didn't make the playoffs for 4 years. So you're telling me that KG is not a superstar either.
Mind you KG, who's probably the best post Karl Malone PF, didn't go deep into the playoffs until he was 27. That was his 8th year in the league. Then his teams didn't make the playoffs for 4 years. So you're telling me that KG is not a superstar either.
KG was superior to Bosh in blocks, steals, rebounding, assists he's a 13 time All-star 8time NBA All Defensive first team and 2 time NBA All Defensive second team should I go on. Sorry Bosh is not comparable to KG but he is good and he still has time to transform himself into a better player.
11-05-2010, 11:16 PM
#144
I think most of us are saying Bosh is good/great, just having a difficult time fitting in at this point in time. The 'superstar' status issue and his previous work is some sort of tangent that has nothing to do his lack of production now, over 6 or 7 games. I thought he was great for a while in Toronto and that's from watching basketball, not reading into fanfare or what the glorified haircuts on SportsCenter are saying. I honestly don't see how he's fitting in right now with Bron and Wade even more so to the standard he set in Toronto. That can and will change IMO, but for now, he's not the Bosh I expected.
For me at least, this feeling isn't reserved for just Bosh, just because he's in Miami; Ron Artest had similar issues and they lasted almost into the playoff semifinals. For the Celtics of 08, Ray Allen had similar problems up through the ECFs in 08. Its not a knock, its an observation. He's just not in a groove, that's all.
For me at least, this feeling isn't reserved for just Bosh, just because he's in Miami; Ron Artest had similar issues and they lasted almost into the playoff semifinals. For the Celtics of 08, Ray Allen had similar problems up through the ECFs in 08. Its not a knock, its an observation. He's just not in a groove, that's all.
11-07-2010, 10:55 PM
#145
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Not Las Vegas (SF Bay Area)
Age: 40
Posts: 63,306
Received 2,811 Likes
on
1,991 Posts
lakers!! 7-0
11-07-2010, 11:09 PM
#146
failhard.
I'm surprised the Hornets are unbeaten as well. I don't have cable so I can't watch games, but it seems they didn't have all that tough a schedule for these first few weeks.
11-07-2010, 11:32 PM
#147
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Not Las Vegas (SF Bay Area)
Age: 40
Posts: 63,306
Received 2,811 Likes
on
1,991 Posts
yea i cant watch laker games since im in the bay area and "out of market" i guess is the term.
anyways i got website i goto to watch pretty much any game online.
anyways i got website i goto to watch pretty much any game online.
11-08-2010, 12:01 AM
#149
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Not Las Vegas (SF Bay Area)
Age: 40
Posts: 63,306
Received 2,811 Likes
on
1,991 Posts
no, it doesnt cut off.
well once it cut off, but that was after more than half of a game, so i just reconnected and it was fine until the end.
it was probably something on my end.
well once it cut off, but that was after more than half of a game, so i just reconnected and it was fine until the end.
it was probably something on my end.
11-08-2010, 12:15 AM
#150
I shoot people
11-08-2010, 12:20 AM
#151
Moderator
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Not Las Vegas (SF Bay Area)
Age: 40
Posts: 63,306
Received 2,811 Likes
on
1,991 Posts
only problem with it, its not in HD,
11-10-2010, 01:38 PM
#155
Interesting stuff last night:
-Miami v Utah is interesting for obvious reasons. Yes, Miami lost, but the best thing to happen for Paul Milsap is that Boozer left for Chicago. He's always been pretty decent. The Jazz interior has a better balance of bigs now, IMO.
-Indiana went 20-21 in one quarter. 95% shooting is...wow, just wow.
-Lakers are 8-0, but I think the Hornet's undefeated record is better quality because they've play higher quality opponents. The Lakers are seem to be on a start of the season cruise (which is good and bad).
-Miami v Utah is interesting for obvious reasons. Yes, Miami lost, but the best thing to happen for Paul Milsap is that Boozer left for Chicago. He's always been pretty decent. The Jazz interior has a better balance of bigs now, IMO.
-Indiana went 20-21 in one quarter. 95% shooting is...wow, just wow.
-Lakers are 8-0, but I think the Hornet's undefeated record is better quality because they've play higher quality opponents. The Lakers are seem to be on a start of the season cruise (which is good and bad).
11-10-2010, 06:24 PM
#156
Interesting stuff last night:
-Miami v Utah is interesting for obvious reasons. Yes, Miami lost, but the best thing to happen for Paul Milsap is that Boozer left for Chicago. He's always been pretty decent. The Jazz interior has a better balance of bigs now, IMO.
-Indiana went 20-21 in one quarter. 95% shooting is...wow, just wow.
-Lakers are 8-0, but I think the Hornet's undefeated record is better quality because they've play higher quality opponents. The Lakers are seem to be on a start of the season cruise (which is good and bad).
-Miami v Utah is interesting for obvious reasons. Yes, Miami lost, but the best thing to happen for Paul Milsap is that Boozer left for Chicago. He's always been pretty decent. The Jazz interior has a better balance of bigs now, IMO.
-Indiana went 20-21 in one quarter. 95% shooting is...wow, just wow.
-Lakers are 8-0, but I think the Hornet's undefeated record is better quality because they've play higher quality opponents. The Lakers are seem to be on a start of the season cruise (which is good and bad).
11-10-2010, 08:40 PM
#157
^^ya, I agree and I'll take it too. Its not good for the long term. The second unit is shooting 3's a decent clip, but I feel they are taking a little too many- lots of home games can 'inspire' a team to shoot a bunch of those. The defense seems to be on and off too.
The somewhat nice thing is that this is all being done with Andrew Bynum still out. Lamar will go the bench, and the big man rotation will allow Pau and Bynum to mix in with the second unit of Blake, Brown, Barnes, and Lamar. I don't think alot of teams can match that.
The somewhat nice thing is that this is all being done with Andrew Bynum still out. Lamar will go the bench, and the big man rotation will allow Pau and Bynum to mix in with the second unit of Blake, Brown, Barnes, and Lamar. I don't think alot of teams can match that.
Last edited by CarbonGray Earl; 11-10-2010 at 08:45 PM.
11-10-2010, 08:44 PM
#158
...oh and don't look now, the Jazz look pretty legit (at least for this week)....
11-10-2010, 09:39 PM
#160
Yao Ming, might as well give up his NBA career...