MLB: Clemens Congressional Hearings Thread **Indicted for Perjury**(Page 2)
02-13-2008, 10:38 AM
#1
...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Age: 42
Posts: 14,398
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MLB: Clemens Congressional Hearings Thread **Indicted for Perjury**(Page 2)
Admitted On Video:
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Sf-elzEGRrM&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Sf-elzEGRrM&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
<object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Sf-elzEGRrM&rel=1"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Sf-elzEGRrM&rel=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object>
02-13-2008, 10:53 AM
#2
Senior Moderator
Bury him. Bury him 10 feet under and throw away the shovel. 
I love classy pitchers who throw broken bats at an opposing player just because he has had success hitting against him.
I love classy pitchers who throw broken bats at an opposing player just because he has had success hitting against him.
02-13-2008, 11:09 AM
#4
Originally Posted by fuzzy02CLS
You do realize that has been cut & edited to say that? I hope....
from CNN:
Roger Clemens, pro baseball's embattled ace pitcher, told a House panel today that his "close friend" Andy Pettitte "misheard" a conversation in which Pettitte claims Clemens admitted using performance-enhancing substances. "I believe Andy has misheard, Mr. Congressman, on his comment about myself using HGH, which never happened," Clemens said.
02-13-2008, 11:11 AM
#5
Senior Moderator
Clemroids is falling apart:
From CNNSI blog regarding the hearing...
From CNNSI blog regarding the hearing...
From SI's Jon Heyman: "Clemens' worst moment so far came when Rep. John Tierney (D-Mass.) questioned Clemens about why he told the committee that he 'never'' talked to McNamee about HGH and pointed out that later in his testimony said the opposite, that in fact he had two specific conversations with McNamee about HGH after McNamee injected HGH into Clemens' wife Debbie. Tierney pointed out that Clemens responded 'never,'' in his deposition to whether he had discussed HGH with McNamee, and Clemens tried to answer by saying he never had 'detailed' discussions with McNamee, a distinction that didn't help him. Later, Clemens acknowledged having 'very heated' discussions with McNamee regarding HGH usage by Debbie after she started having circulation problems following the injection, according to Clemens."
02-13-2008, 11:14 AM
#7
Senior Moderator
Change the title, dom..."MLB Congressional hearings thread"...?
Trending Topics
02-13-2008, 11:16 AM
#8
Senior Moderator
In one case Lynch redacted Clemens' name and had a medical expert examine the MRI report. The doctor's findings show that Clemens' buttocks problem appeared not to have anything to do with B12 shots or a strain, but were more consistent with steroid injections. 'Given the physical evidence, [it] seems consistent with what of Mr. McNamee is saying,' Lynch told Clemens. Dr. Ron Taylor, the Toronto physician, told Lynch that he gave 'close to one thousand B12 shots' and never had such a complication. Asked about it, Clemens basically called out Taylor as either being wrong or incompetent. 'If he gave me a bad shot he gave me a bad shot,' Clemens said.
02-13-2008, 11:31 AM
#9
Safety Car
^^^
+1
Originally Posted by Yumchah
02-13-2008, 11:42 AM
#10
Senior Moderator
SCORE...! Clemroids now blames his agents for not telling him that Mitchell wanted to interview him. Considering the Cheat is a PITCHER and supposed control freak, wouldn't he be enraged about this mistake from his representatives?
Heck, why are they still employed as his agents...?!?? :rollseyes:
02-13-2008, 11:50 AM
#12
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by 03bl AC k CL
I'm a Mets fan... I think its understood what my opinion of roger clemens and his steroid use is.
02-13-2008, 11:52 AM
#13
Safety Car
Originally Posted by Yumchah
SCORE...! Clemroids now blames his agents for not telling him that Mitchell wanted to interview him. Considering the Cheat is a PITCHER and supposed control freak, wouldn't he be enraged about this mistake from his representatives?
Heck, why are they still employed as his agents...?!?? :rollseyes:
I seem to remember BARROIDS doing the same type of thing by blaming the media.
02-13-2008, 12:06 PM
#14
Oh Hullow
Originally Posted by Yumchah
Well, I'm sure you found his classy plays like headhunting or throwing a broken bat at your players were pricesless, right? HoF material...?
well come on hes a gracious loser, a humble winner, has great patience... and doesnt do steroids... obviously... hall of famer imo ....(someone put this in red text for me)
02-13-2008, 12:26 PM
#16
Senior Moderator
From SI.com's Jon Heyman: "Committee chairman Waxman poked a major hole in Clemens' party defense, revealing that when the committee requested the contact information for Clemens' former nanny, to question her about whether Clemens attended Canseco's infamous party, Clemens' people delayed in giving the information and that Clemens, who had not seen the nanny since 2001, summoned her to his home. Clemens' lawyers tried to interject, and Clemens twice said, 'I was doin' y'all a favor,' by talking to the nanny first. Waxman, however, said the contact 'raises an appearance of impropriety.' Indeed, it does make one wonder whether Clemens was trying to coach Lily the nanny. Waxman also revealed that Clemens' family members were at the party and that Clemens' golf receipt came from a golf club adjacent to Canseco's Miami's house. Waxman said he didn't find the party defense that Clemens was not there 'central' to the issue. However, if Clemens lied about whether he was there, it would badly hurt his credibility."
02-13-2008, 12:59 PM
#17
Senior Moderator
Why am I not surprised one bit that the Republicans are siding with Clemens and the Democrats are siding with McNamee...?
02-13-2008, 01:01 PM
#18
Keeping emos out of
Clemens is dancing so much that he's sure to get a spot on 'Dancing With the Stars'. I think that he's smucked and won't be getting into the Hall of Fame anytime soon.
02-13-2008, 01:12 PM
#19
...
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Age: 42
Posts: 14,398
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by Yumchah
Bury him. Bury him 10 feet under and throw away the shovel.
I love classy pitchers who throw broken bats at an opposing player just because he has had success hitting against him.
I love classy pitchers who throw broken bats at an opposing player just because he has had success hitting against him.
02-13-2008, 01:14 PM
#20
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by sonnyg80
Way to get all serious on the funny video
02-13-2008, 01:22 PM
#21
Safety Car
I'm thinking that maybe Clemroids actually thinks he's telling the truth. Colin Cowherd suggested this on his show on ESPN Radio as well; saying he could possibly have a problem with his frontal lobe.
02-13-2008, 02:28 PM
#24
All your base belong to
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: The 402, 712, and 515
Age: 44
Posts: 4,592
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Originally Posted by Yumchah
Bury him. Bury him 10 feet under and throw away the shovel.
I love classy pitchers who throw broken bats at an opposing player just because he has had success hitting against him.
I love classy pitchers who throw broken bats at an opposing player just because he has had success hitting against him.
When will you understand that all players used it, just the dumb ones have been caught?
02-13-2008, 03:00 PM
#25
Senior Moderator
on Clemroids...
From SI's Tom Verducci: "Finally. Elijah Cummings is the MVP of the hearing. Straightforward, with no grandstanding, Cummings stepped up and finally asked the most important question to Clemens: Why would McNamee tell the truth about Pettitte and Knoblauch but lie about Clemens, especially when Pettitte, by Clemens' own testimony a honest man, backed McNamee's story? Clemens whiffed. 'Congressman, I have no idea,' he said, before devolving into a rambling discourse on Pettitte's friendship with him. Cummings came back again. 'How do you explain that?' Clemens again stumbled, asking why Pettitte didn't tell him when he used HGH, which was not important to the question at hand. Finally, Cummings slammed the door on Clemens. 'It's hard to believe you, sir,' Cummings told Clemens. 'You're one of my heroes. But it's hard to believe you.'"
02-13-2008, 03:04 PM
#26
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by ZeroPSI
You seem to share the same opinion about each person that has been linked to alleged HGH or steroid use.
When will you understand that all players used it, just the dumb ones have been caught?
When will you understand that all players used it, just the dumb ones have been caught?
To your second comment: Wrong. I understand that not ALL players have used it. I do not for one second believe that a Greg Maddux was juiced. I do not believe a Jim Thome was juiced. I do not believe that Frank Thomas was juiced. I do not believe Chipper Jones was juiced. My list continues. A rat smells like a rat and often, stats help in detecting that. Am I naive in thinking that there are SOME clean players out there? Perhaps. But, I don't think my examples are that far-fetched.
If everyone cheats, it does not warrant YOU to cheat. I still cannot understand this apathy some people have about this. So, if every athlete beat their kids and wives, it's okay to do it since...well, you're an athlete in that sport?
02-13-2008, 03:42 PM
#27
All your base belong to
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: The 402, 712, and 515
Age: 44
Posts: 4,592
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Originally Posted by Yumchah
To your first comment: Bingo. I have a high disdain to cheaters. Period. Where is there honor and sportsmanship in this world?
To your second comment: Wrong. I understand that not ALL players have used it. I do not for one second believe that a Greg Maddux was juiced. I do not believe a Jim Thome was juiced. I do not believe that Frank Thomas was juiced. I do not believe Chipper Jones was juiced. My list continues. A rat smells like a rat and often, stats help in detecting that. Am I naive in thinking that there are SOME clean players out there? Perhaps. But, I don't think my examples are that far-fetched.
If everyone cheats, it does not warrant YOU to cheat. I still cannot understand this apathy some people have about this. So, if every athlete beat their kids and wives, it's okay to do it since...well, you're an athlete in that sport?
To your second comment: Wrong. I understand that not ALL players have used it. I do not for one second believe that a Greg Maddux was juiced. I do not believe a Jim Thome was juiced. I do not believe that Frank Thomas was juiced. I do not believe Chipper Jones was juiced. My list continues. A rat smells like a rat and often, stats help in detecting that. Am I naive in thinking that there are SOME clean players out there? Perhaps. But, I don't think my examples are that far-fetched.
If everyone cheats, it does not warrant YOU to cheat. I still cannot understand this apathy some people have about this. So, if every athlete beat their kids and wives, it's okay to do it since...well, you're an athlete in that sport?
Studies suggest that HGH won't help an athlete at all, unlike Steroids that anabolicly contribute to strength and muscle growth, HGH, meanwhile, gives users denser bones, thicker skin, less fat, and more lean body tissue. Basically, wiping away around 10-15 years of aging on the body.
If this type of stuff is so readily available, and has so many frequent abusers, I can't imagine why most if not all players had their hands in the honey jar. If its widespread around your clubhouse, and you are seeing players gain an extra step, in their aging career, how a person would just let is slide and not use it. Why are there more people who are not standing up and speaking out against them? The unspoken bond of sportsmanship and team brethern? Please.
02-13-2008, 04:02 PM
#28
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by ZeroPSI
First off, there is a big difference between HGH and Steroids.
Studies suggest that HGH won't help an athlete at all, unlike Steroids that anabolicly contribute to strength and muscle growth, HGH, meanwhile, gives users denser bones, thicker skin, less fat, and more lean body tissue. Basically, wiping away around 10-15 years of aging on the body.
If this type of stuff is so readily available, and has so many frequent abusers, I can't imagine why most if not all players had their hands in the honey jar. If its widespread around your clubhouse, and you are seeing players gain an extra step, in their aging career, how a person would just let is slide and not use it. Why are there more people who are not standing up and speaking out against them? The unspoken bond of sportsmanship and team brethern? Please.
Studies suggest that HGH won't help an athlete at all, unlike Steroids that anabolicly contribute to strength and muscle growth, HGH, meanwhile, gives users denser bones, thicker skin, less fat, and more lean body tissue. Basically, wiping away around 10-15 years of aging on the body.
If this type of stuff is so readily available, and has so many frequent abusers, I can't imagine why most if not all players had their hands in the honey jar. If its widespread around your clubhouse, and you are seeing players gain an extra step, in their aging career, how a person would just let is slide and not use it. Why are there more people who are not standing up and speaking out against them? The unspoken bond of sportsmanship and team brethern? Please.
And the effects of it on a human body are huge and give a tremendous competitive advantage. For the list of benefits, please go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hgh
Well, you tell me why aren't more players speaking up. But, yappers like Schilling sure aren't shutting up about the abusers. Frank Thomas, Chipper Jones have never really been too shy about what they think either. Do they name names? Hey, for them, there is the clubhouse honor...except, in the case of Pettitte where he had no choice but to give up Clemens or face perjury.
02-13-2008, 04:03 PM
#29
Originally Posted by Yumchah
on Clemroids...From SI's Tom Verducci: "Finally. Elijah Cummings is the MVP of the hearing. Straightforward, with no grandstanding, Cummings stepped up and finally asked the most important question to Clemens: Why would McNamee tell the truth about Pettitte and Knoblauch but lie about Clemens, especially when Pettitte, by Clemens' own testimony a honest man, backed McNamee's story? Clemens whiffed. 'Congressman, I have no idea,' he said, before devolving into a rambling discourse on Pettitte's friendship with him. Cummings came back again. 'How do you explain that?' Clemens again stumbled, asking why Pettitte didn't tell him when he used HGH, which was not important to the question at hand. Finally, Cummings slammed the door on Clemens. 'It's hard to believe you, sir,' Cummings told Clemens. 'You're one of my heroes. But it's hard to believe you.'"
Ooof!
Sorry Clemorrhoids
02-13-2008, 04:07 PM
#30
Senior Moderator
Jayson Stark of ESPN sums up Clemroids' day:
Rep. John Tierney had an experience many of us in the media have had while trying to interview Clemens: We ask one thing. He gives an answer that seems to be in response to some whole other question. And no matter how hard we try, he keeps answering the question he hears, not the question we asked.
Tierney noted three specific times Clemens told investigators he'd never talked to McNamee about HGH -- but then cited two occasions when he confronted McNamee about his injection of his wife with HGH.
Repeatedly, Tierney asked Clemens how he "reconciled" that inconsistency. Repeatedly, Clemens gave answers that indicated that "prior" to those conversations, he'd never had a "specific" discussion with McNamee about HGH.
You wanted to scream out, "Roger, that's not what he's asking." But eventually, Tierney just gave up and moved on.
Been there. Done that.
Tierney noted three specific times Clemens told investigators he'd never talked to McNamee about HGH -- but then cited two occasions when he confronted McNamee about his injection of his wife with HGH.
Repeatedly, Tierney asked Clemens how he "reconciled" that inconsistency. Repeatedly, Clemens gave answers that indicated that "prior" to those conversations, he'd never had a "specific" discussion with McNamee about HGH.
You wanted to scream out, "Roger, that's not what he's asking." But eventually, Tierney just gave up and moved on.
Been there. Done that.
02-13-2008, 04:14 PM
#31
Senior Moderator
Clemens 
big-time at the end of the hearing today by Waxman...From CNNSI:
big-time at the end of the hearing today by Waxman...From CNNSI:
WAXMAN: "This is what I think we've learned: Chuck Knoblauch and Andy Pettitte confirmed what Brian McNamee told Senator Mitchell. We learned of conversations Andy Pettitte believed he had with Roger Clemens about HGH and even though Mr. Clemens says his relationship with Mr. Pettitte was so close that they would know and share information with each other. Evidently, Mr. Pettitte didn't believe what Mr. Clemens said in that 2005 conversation."
CLEMENS: "Doesn't mean that he was not mistaken, sir."
WAXMAN: "Doesn't mean that."
CLEMENS: "It does not mean that he was not mistaken, Sir."
WAXMAN (Angry): "Excuse me, but this is not your time to argue with me."
Waxman then apologized to McNamee for some of his colleagues' comments toward him. "You have taken a lot of hits today," Waxman told McNamee. "In my view, some were fair and some were really unwarranted." Waxman specifically thanked McNamee and then apologized to him for some of his colleagues' comments. He ended by saying, "We started this investigation on baseball to try to break that link of professional sports and the use of these drugs."
CLEMENS: "Doesn't mean that he was not mistaken, sir."
WAXMAN: "Doesn't mean that."
CLEMENS: "It does not mean that he was not mistaken, Sir."
WAXMAN (Angry): "Excuse me, but this is not your time to argue with me."
Waxman then apologized to McNamee for some of his colleagues' comments toward him. "You have taken a lot of hits today," Waxman told McNamee. "In my view, some were fair and some were really unwarranted." Waxman specifically thanked McNamee and then apologized to him for some of his colleagues' comments. He ended by saying, "We started this investigation on baseball to try to break that link of professional sports and the use of these drugs."
02-13-2008, 04:20 PM
#32
All your base belong to
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: The 402, 712, and 515
Age: 44
Posts: 4,592
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Originally Posted by Yumchah
Wrong. The effects of HGH on the tissues of the body is described as anabolic. Like other protein hormones, HGH acts by interacting with specific receptor cells.
And the effects of it on a human body are huge and give a tremendous competitive advantage. For the list of benefits, please go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hgh
Well, you tell me why aren't more players speaking up. But, yappers like Schilling sure aren't shutting up about the abusers. Frank Thomas, Chipper Jones have never really been too shy about what they think either. Do they name names? Hey, for them, there is the clubhouse honor...except, in the case of Pettitte where he had no choice but to give up Clemens or face perjury.
And the effects of it on a human body are huge and give a tremendous competitive advantage. For the list of benefits, please go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hgh
Well, you tell me why aren't more players speaking up. But, yappers like Schilling sure aren't shutting up about the abusers. Frank Thomas, Chipper Jones have never really been too shy about what they think either. Do they name names? Hey, for them, there is the clubhouse honor...except, in the case of Pettitte where he had no choice but to give up Clemens or face perjury.
But once again, there has been NO STUDY to link using HGH to better performance. It is all human guess and hypothesizing.
So I take Creatine and Protein Suppelments. Each of those stimulate muscle growth and protein sytheses of the body. Each of those are available over the counter, and your local GNC. Maybe I should get kicked out of my company softball league.
People are just looking for another reason to complain about something that ultimately bears no outcome on the game. Players who have used or are using HGH and other inhibitors have no ruined the game. The meda who blows this shit out of proportion and the lemmings who jump all over it as REAL NEWS have.
02-13-2008, 05:35 PM
#35
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by ZeroPSI
Wikipedia tells me nothing about HGH giving a player a competitve advantage. It outlines how it stimulates the growth factors of hormones, which in turn can stimulate protein synthesis, as well as other normal body processes.
But once again, there has been NO STUDY to link using HGH to better performance. It is all human guess and hypothesizing.
So I take Creatine and Protein Suppelments. Each of those stimulate muscle growth and protein sytheses of the body. Each of those are available over the counter, and your local GNC. Maybe I should get kicked out of my company softball league.
People are just looking for another reason to complain about something that ultimately bears no outcome on the game. Players who have used or are using HGH and other inhibitors have no ruined the game. The meda who blows this shit out of proportion and the lemmings who jump all over it as REAL NEWS have.
But once again, there has been NO STUDY to link using HGH to better performance. It is all human guess and hypothesizing.
So I take Creatine and Protein Suppelments. Each of those stimulate muscle growth and protein sytheses of the body. Each of those are available over the counter, and your local GNC. Maybe I should get kicked out of my company softball league.
People are just looking for another reason to complain about something that ultimately bears no outcome on the game. Players who have used or are using HGH and other inhibitors have no ruined the game. The meda who blows this shit out of proportion and the lemmings who jump all over it as REAL NEWS have.
Ultimately, the crux of the matter is the dishonesty behind it. Cheating is cheating. Here's my take. Your rationale to me is along the same lines as the same excuse used by the white-collar criminal who ignores the rules set up by the IRS so that they can get uber-$$$$.
Here it is in a nutshell by that white-collar Cheat: "Yes, I didn't pay my taxes. I haven't paid my taxes in years, in blatant disregard for the law, under the supervision of my lawyers and accountants that I pay well to make and keep me rich. How I make my money and run my business is my business and is a source of great profit in the entertainment industry, and I've hired the best people to keep my machine running right and ensuring that I have an unfair advantage while breaking the law. I don't care about anyone who abides by the rules."
Right...This is not a slam against you, but it appears that people with YOUR type of rationale has lost its way in matters of right versus wrong and following and respecting the rules that this issue has become clouded. You are saying to me (and calling me a lemming) that it is no big deal that a person like Clemroids lied to federal investigators.
The argument for and against the use of these substances is secondary to the issue that the use of the substances is NOT allowed. Period. Not allowed. That is the key. I do not care whether there are ways that can detect use. I do not care if it is NOT proven that HGH makes the guy's batspeed better or makes him stronger or not. If the sports world states that something is not allowed, whether players get tested or not, if they use it they are cheating. Oh sure, MLB didn't ban it until 2005. Alright. Fine...let's go with that argument for a sec. Then, why won't athletes just come forward and SAY they used it? Does it require a subpoena and the threat of perjury before it takes a man to own up to "Yes, I took HGH PRIOR to 2005,"...?
Ultimate, this is why I am watching with glee to see a person like Clemroids or Flaxseed burn for it. It is absolutely disgusting to me the effort, time, energy, etc. etc expended by these Cheats to NOT to get caught using, or admit using. By that virtue, it is easy to see that these people themselves know that what they were doing is wrong.
You take creatine. Cool. Is it banned from your league? Are protein supplements banned by sports in general? Do you go about hiding that to your team members or others? Do you feel guilty taking it?
Cheating is cheating. Period.
02-13-2008, 05:37 PM
#36
teh Senior Instigator
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Huntington Beach, CA -> Ashburn, VA -> Raleigh, NC -> Walnut Creek, CA
Age: 42
Posts: 44,090
Received 957 Likes
on
328 Posts
Originally Posted by ZeroPSI
You seem to share the same opinion about each person that has been linked to alleged HGH or steroid use.
When will you understand that all players used it, just the dumb ones have been caught?
When will you understand that all players used it, just the dumb ones have been caught?
Just the ones that were investigated got caught
02-13-2008, 05:39 PM
#37
teh Senior Instigator
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Huntington Beach, CA -> Ashburn, VA -> Raleigh, NC -> Walnut Creek, CA
Age: 42
Posts: 44,090
Received 957 Likes
on
328 Posts
Originally Posted by Yumchah
ZeroPSI:
Ultimately, the crux of the matter is the dishonesty behind it. Cheating is cheating. Here's my take. Your rationale to me is along the same lines as the same excuse used by the white-collar criminal who ignores the rules set up by the IRS so that they can get uber-$$$$.
Here it is in a nutshell by that white-collar Cheat: "Yes, I didn't pay my taxes. I haven't paid my taxes in years, in blatant disregard for the law, under the supervision of my lawyers and accountants that I pay well to make and keep me rich. How I make my money and run my business is my business and is a source of great profit in the entertainment industry, and I've hired the best people to keep my machine running right and ensuring that I have an unfair advantage while breaking the law. I don't care about anyone who abides by the rules."
Right...This is not a slam against you, but it appears that people with YOUR type of rationale has lost its way in matters of right versus wrong and following and respecting the rules that this issue has become clouded. You are saying to me (and calling me a lemming) that it is no big deal that a person like Clemroids lied to federal investigators.
The argument for and against the use of these substances is secondary to the issue that the use of the substances is NOT allowed. Period. Not allowed. That is the key. I do not care whether there are ways that can detect use. If the sports world states that something is not allowed, whether players get tested or not, if they use it they are cheating.
And what's even more disgusting is that the effort, time, energy, etc. etc expended by these Cheats to NOT to get caught using, or admit using, is easy to see that these people themselves know that what they were doing is wrong.
You take creatine. Cool. Is it banned from your league? Are protein supplements banned by sports in general? Do you go about hiding that to your team members or others? Do you feel guilty taking it?
Cheating is cheating. Period.
Ultimately, the crux of the matter is the dishonesty behind it. Cheating is cheating. Here's my take. Your rationale to me is along the same lines as the same excuse used by the white-collar criminal who ignores the rules set up by the IRS so that they can get uber-$$$$.
Here it is in a nutshell by that white-collar Cheat: "Yes, I didn't pay my taxes. I haven't paid my taxes in years, in blatant disregard for the law, under the supervision of my lawyers and accountants that I pay well to make and keep me rich. How I make my money and run my business is my business and is a source of great profit in the entertainment industry, and I've hired the best people to keep my machine running right and ensuring that I have an unfair advantage while breaking the law. I don't care about anyone who abides by the rules."
Right...This is not a slam against you, but it appears that people with YOUR type of rationale has lost its way in matters of right versus wrong and following and respecting the rules that this issue has become clouded. You are saying to me (and calling me a lemming) that it is no big deal that a person like Clemroids lied to federal investigators.
The argument for and against the use of these substances is secondary to the issue that the use of the substances is NOT allowed. Period. Not allowed. That is the key. I do not care whether there are ways that can detect use. If the sports world states that something is not allowed, whether players get tested or not, if they use it they are cheating.
And what's even more disgusting is that the effort, time, energy, etc. etc expended by these Cheats to NOT to get caught using, or admit using, is easy to see that these people themselves know that what they were doing is wrong.
You take creatine. Cool. Is it banned from your league? Are protein supplements banned by sports in general? Do you go about hiding that to your team members or others? Do you feel guilty taking it?
Cheating is cheating. Period.
The thing was though, it wasn't really cheating. The substances were not illegal in the game at the time. They were never tested for it. They were handed out in club houses, some teams encouraged it, etc.
Yes they were ILLEGAL to the law......but that's a whole other matter.
If you were in any of these guys positions I can almost guarantee you would do it too. "Hey, i've got this product that will make you play better, it'll allow you to make more money. Don't worry, everyone else is doing it, baseball doesn't care....and you aren't going to be tested"
Are you REALLY going to say no? I sure as hell am not.
02-13-2008, 05:40 PM
#38
teh Senior Instigator
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Huntington Beach, CA -> Ashburn, VA -> Raleigh, NC -> Walnut Creek, CA
Age: 42
Posts: 44,090
Received 957 Likes
on
328 Posts
Originally Posted by ZeroPSI
So I take Creatine and Protein Suppelments. Each of those stimulate muscle growth and protein sytheses of the body. Each of those are available over the counter, and your local GNC. Maybe I should get kicked out of my company softball league.
Walk into GNC and about 35% of the products you can buy OTC will test positive in NCAA drug tests
02-13-2008, 05:41 PM
#39
All your base belong to
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: The 402, 712, and 515
Age: 44
Posts: 4,592
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
How is it cheating if it was not against the rules? When these athletes were taking these products, there was no rules against it. So why prosecute people for the past?
Corking your bat, using a lubricant to pitch, sliding spikes up: that is cheating.
People will always find away around the rules.
Yummy, you undoubtedly downloaded MP3s from the Internet. That's against the law as set by the RIAA. Cheater.
Corking your bat, using a lubricant to pitch, sliding spikes up: that is cheating.
People will always find away around the rules.
Yummy, you undoubtedly downloaded MP3s from the Internet. That's against the law as set by the RIAA. Cheater.
02-13-2008, 05:42 PM
#40
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by CLpower
The thing was though, it wasn't really cheating. The substances were not illegal in the game at the time. They were never tested for it. They were handed out in club houses, some teams encouraged it, etc.
Yes they were ILLEGAL......but that's a whole other matter.
If you were in any of these guys positions I can almost guarantee you would do it too. "Hey, i've got this product that will make you play better, it'll allow you to make more money. Don't worry, everyone else is doing it, baseball doesn't care....and you aren't going to be tested"
Are you REALLY going to say no? I sure as hell am not.
Yes they were ILLEGAL......but that's a whole other matter.
If you were in any of these guys positions I can almost guarantee you would do it too. "Hey, i've got this product that will make you play better, it'll allow you to make more money. Don't worry, everyone else is doing it, baseball doesn't care....and you aren't going to be tested"
Are you REALLY going to say no? I sure as hell am not.
Why does it have to take a Grand Jury or the Department of Justice to get them to say it?
The fact that they are tiptoeing around like little mice indicates to me that they KNOW what they did was wrong.