dom

fdl, I thought you were for fighting?

Jonesi

Same with boarding, hits from behind, elbows etc etc etc.. Do you think we should take away hitting?

It's a risk that comes with the game. When they drop the gloves they are deciding they want to fight.. It's their choice..

Jonesi

I see this thread is turning into should we allow goons and instigators in the league..

fdl

Oh I am, just pointing out that guys sometimes CAN get hurt.

Hockey is a very rough sport, but thats part of the appeal. There really is no other sport where acting like an ass or playing dirty will get you a healthy dose of street justice.

dom

Apples and oranges. Hitting is a part of the game. It happens in a a split second. Fighting is pre-meditated. There is an entire thought process that goes into it.

No one is suggesting hitting be removed from the game, although hitting from behind and elbowing should defiantly be removed.

Jonesi

fdl

Part of the "problem" now is that the guys are so big. Look at a guy like Boogard, 6'7 260 lbs. If you are dumb enough to fight him (a la fedoruk) there is a chance you are going to get hurt.

Whiskers

Well, not much anymore...

And I will check the link out later...

dom

If they can contribute, why not. Having a player on your roster to play 2 to 4 minutes a game for the sole purpose of nailing someone of fighting has no place in the game.

Jannsen played 4 minutes against Toronto last week.

dom

lol...Ever wonder why that is? How come other sports haven't figured out what a great thing street justice is and allowed it into their game?

CLpower

Yes, it should stay in the game

Jonesi

Good point.. But I think that fighting is pre-meditated from the direction the game is headed.. If there's cheap shots and shit going on that shouldn't then guys step up and change the direction of the game..

Self governing..

Jonesi

And guess what, those are the guys that are going to go out and hurt a Crosby, Ovechicken, Kovalchuck etc.. They are the ones that turn a normal game into a fight fest..


So Dom, why don't you see these guys in competition play?

dom

No arguing that point. The self governing works. But players shouldn't be in that position to begin with. That kinda stuff leads directly to the Steve Moore situations. The league should be responsible for policing its players.

dom

What do you mean by competition play?

joerockt

Its part of Hockey and it adds to the excitement and drama. When I was growing up on Long Island I went to many Islanders games. One game I will remember for the rest of my life was an Islanders/Bruins game. Pat Lafontane got boarded, head first, and knocked out cold. A bench clearing brawl ensued, multiple players ejected, BOTH coaches ejected. Its was beyond awesome.

Its also part of the intimidation factor. If someone has a good brawler on their team, the other team is probably less apt to check as aggressively. And ultimately is comes down to the coach if he wants to send his enforcer on the ice to start shit, so its a game tactic the coach has in his pocket.

Yea, better hockey is played in the playoffs, but who wants to sit on the bench when the next game you lose could be your last? Thats not the case in the regular season. Again, a coach desition and he's not going to mess around on a 1-1 tie game in the playoffs with fighting.

Jonesi

"Why isn't it a part of the playoffs, the world championships, the Olympics, international hockey etc?" I just grouped it into "Competition Play"...

dom

Scott do you watch hockey? give us some background for that answer. Your the typical Californian I want to hear from on this.

Jonesi

They aren't in that position. They have to make the decision to drop the gloves..


I won't argue the league should step in and say something..

dom

You don't see them there because they can't contribute on the sroreheet and will likely do more harm than good. Unless these guys can contribute by scoring or dishing out great hits, they shouldn't be there.

If they are there to legally throw their body around for 5 minutes a game than I'm ok with it. Like you said, hitting can change the outcome of a game.

Jonesi

You know I think the MakeBeliefs need some superstars to protect..

sonnyg80

i could care less but i still think it shouldn't be in the game...it's the only sport that allows it and dont give a shit if they do fight and get hurt. I admit, i don't know hockey's history so i assume it's probably been a part of the game for however long since it's sucha physical sport, but either way I don't think it's necessary - i agree with dom though that there should be stiffer penalties if it's going to happen regardless.

from fdl's video (i think) that he posted a few days ago:

announcer - 'oh boy, i hope he's not hurt' after guy gets knocked unconscious during the fight....what do you expect after a fight sherlock, lol seriously - i just find that comment funny in that situation where fighting was allowed.

dom

Don't get me wrong. I love watching fighting in Hockey, basketball, baseball etc. Its fun. But I could live without it.

So basically the regular season is alot less important than the playoffs. obviously. So that leads to less entertaining games which explains why no one in the US watches hockey.

joerockt

NO, you wanna know why no one watches hockey? The frickin 20 mins in between periods!! I swear I think thats the main reason and it still pisses me off. If they went with 4 quarters just like football, I bet it would become more popular.

dom

Lets say Belak takes out Crosby with a cheap shot. What would you prefer?

- A lengthy suspension?
- Georges Larouqe kicking the crap out of Belak next game and in turn in jurying Belak
- Or a lengthy suspension and Larouque kicking the crap out out of him?

This business of taking the law into your own hands only happens in the NHL. If the league nailed Belak with a 20 to 30 gamer with no pay. He's be thinking about it next time. Thats alot more severe than simply having to drop the gloves next time out.

joerockt

But EVERY sport is like that. More people watch playoff games because they have more implications.

Jonesi

See I don't see a difference between fighting and hitting/cheap shots to get a star player off his game.. I think of them all in the same.. We all know they're out there for one reason.. And I think fights stem from that Bullshit..

CLpower

been to a dozen or so games, will watch it on TV on occasion. I just enjoy the fighting, I think taking it away would take away from the fan base, excitement. It's just a few punches, a hard check does a lot more damage most of the time. Who cares if they throw a few blows.

But then again I think basketball is a pussy sport because every little bump and shove is a foul.

dom

No your talking crazy.

I was at the Raptors game the other night. At the half I went to get some coffee, By the time I got back the fawkin 3rd quarter had already started. I needed more time!!

Hockey players need the rest. But more importantly the ice needs time to heal after the Zamboni cleans it. Putting them out there too soon results in bad ice and poor play with more injuries.

dom

I'm pretty sure most American males in that 18-35 range feel the same way, which is why they'll likely never get rid of it.

But as much as most of you guys love watching the fights, the ratings and attendance in the US still stinks.

Jonesi

Winner.. And guess what that guy and the rest of the league is going to think twice about doing shit to Crosby..

Therrien has several times put Laraque on Crosby's line when there's shit going on. And he's done the same for Malkin and Staal.. And as you can probably guess the other team backed down pretty quick..

And in turn has given Crosby and Malkin more room on the ice..


It changed the tone of the game without any gloves being thrown down.

dom

No doubt.

But why don't NFL teams have a goon to protect their stars against hard hits? Why don't they need to send the message that hitting the QB after he throws will not be tolerated?

Why, because the NFL actually penalizes players for doing those things while the NHL turns a blind eye. A 15 yard penalty in the NFL is equivalent to a 4 minute penalty in the NHL, which almost never happens unless a guy gets cut.

CLpower

hell yea it does, because they go to commercial when fights start

dom

Are you serious?

Jonesi

Because they have like 15 refs that can throw flags.. And see shit behind the play..

If a ref in the NHL isn't making calls or doesn't see the penalties then Laraque will start to make the calls..

dom

More often than not, things aren't missed in the NHL. More ofetn than not, they choose not to blow their whistle. If 2 ref's aren't enough, allow linesmen to make calls, or at least be able to tell a ref what happened. Not sure if they already do that though?

Jonesi

But Dom I'm curious.. You said in your original statement basically you want every game to be like the Playoffs, International play etc. but in these games there aren't "Instigators"

I know you support the instigators but don't support fighting.. Why??

Personally I think there are more injuries occured from cheap shots and shit then fighting.

Jonesi

Are you serious that they don't miss calls?

Don't get me started.. I'm so sick of these fvckin "Make Up Calls" from a previous play that it's ridiculous..

The linesmen should be able to make calls..

fdl

Suspensions are rare, and not always called for.

It would have to be pretty bad for the league to suspend Belak for this. so for the REALLY viscious stuff, let the league handle it. But for the rest, let laroque handle it.

fdl

I think its just the ducks that do this, because of the whole Disney thing