justnspace

iTrader: (1)

to be fair; no one knew what the catalyst would be.

I had become of age and started working in 2009. So, I have seen our "recovery" take place in this last decade.
feels eerily similar.

was laid off in Dec. 2018 from the Oil&Gas industry.
Found a job in July 2019 in Oil&Gas, was recently laid off July 2020.

just a data point and not looking for sympathy!
I know I aint buying new cars any time soon.

fiatlux

Whoa whoa whoa, are we rubbing off on you? Welcome to the club!

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

Tesla1856

I can handle the TLX criticism, because I'm a Honda/Acura fanboy.

We don't always agree Fiatlux, but I really enjoy our little chats. I also respect how much you know about premium cars, their features, and the scene in general.

Apart from "reality setting in" about this new car purchase, I'm not really pleased with how this deal is going. It would be easy to blame local dealer, but it's not them ... it's Acura.

I might eventually post about it, but not now. Anyway, this is the wrong thread for that talk.

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

no it's not!
the thread has evolved...
air out your dirty laundry!! lol

Barbecue Tech Tips

If this car isn't as refined on NVH as the Lexus ES or Toyota Avalon, I might have second thoughts.

fiatlux

Oh it definitely is not going to be as refined. This car is geared towards performance, so compromises have to be made. Even the Germans aren’t going to ride as well or be as comfortable or quiet as the ES. If you want the best comfort, reliability, and build quality at the 40K price point, the ES is the gold standard.

Barbecue Tech Tips

Hopefully they employed (ANC) Active noise cancellation & accoustic windshield & side glass. I have hope because the RLX was a quieter, comfortable car than the 19" ES.

Ironically the ES 350 Ultra luxury & TLX Advanced are the two cars I am looking at. I was looking at the Lincoln MKZ black label & RLX advanced.

I can't get used to the ES grille and don't really want a car that boring to drive even though I thought thats what I wanted.

The lincoln is too much parts bin sharing from ford, even though everything is wrapped is alcantara & soft leather.

The TLX is its own platform atleast, unlike the ES 350/ MKZ and has the best sound system below 60k.

Tesla1856

1. Well, they have been saying "mid $50k" on TLX Type-S for a while now. For the reasons you mentioned, most of us already expected that.

2. Right. This is what I want to comment on, in relation to the currently releasing 2.0T TLX SH-AWD.

I was explaining-away about 50% of that because performance of the (new-ish) 2.0T was equal to the old V6 (that was previously bundled with SH-AWD). So, $2500 there, and $2500 for the usual "new year model" price increase. Price keeps rising. Obviously, Tech Package is the minimal config for any sane person, and strange Trim packages force many to start considering Advance. Price is sure getting up there. Premium Paint (most colors are) is undefined (but $500-$1000 is actual).

But here's the thing. Since most dealers have been forced to move to "no haggle" or "best price up-front" ... MSRP is set very high.
So, extremely hyped-up new model, low production and delivery volume, no incentives, expensive trims and options. High MSRP also protects profits in Acura Precision Purchase (including your local dealer's cut).

pyrodan007

This may work well for their crossovers since the bang for buck is there. Doing so on struggling sedans with a new product already being iffy on bang for buck smells like a recipe for low sells and people just walking away once at the signing stage. Provided they enjoyed the test drive and can get over some trim design omissions.

If the Type-S is 56k US, there's no way it'll do well with a no haggle strategy.

Tesla1856

Agreed.

Acura and the dealers seems to group their SUVs (only thing keeping them alive) and their sedans (especially this new TLX) together ... as "our highly successful, popular, and in-demand Acura vehicles historically have always sold like blah-blah-blah ..."

As for people "settling" on non-favorite color, interior, or desired options ... on a $45k vehicle. Well, I think that is bizzare. You must really be desperate to buy a new Acura if that is the case. However, I suppose they could also be Leases and buyers think of it as a temporary fix with a way-out.

leomio85

Ok, I've calmed down a bit. I don't disagree with you on this sales strategy. I don't know if that's what they do, but I don't know any better, so I won't contest it in the least. However, it's unrealistic to think people aren't going to be cross-shopping other brands. For the base, those they don't lose to the Germans or Lexus, I think they're going to lose customers to the Honda Accord honestly for the people who want the 2.0T. A friend of mine's sister just picked up a '20 Honda Accord Sport 2.0T for $28K OTD. Crazy good deal. For those who don't need AWD, it's a hard sell.

As for the Type S, same deal. Perusing the Bimmer forums, many claim you can basically get 8-9% off MSRP on the M340i without even haggling. 11% is the supposed aim, with most getting around there (10-13%) with some more work and incentives. For me, that would bring my build to right over $54k with an engine that has proven to be incredibly responsive to mods, reliable enough for Toyota to put it in their Supra and a transmission that is world renowned. The engine and transmission are giant question marks for the TLX-S, both in terms of performance, responsiveness to mods and long term reliability. If I needed/wanted the car now, or my lease was running out, there's no way I'd opt for the TLX-S over the M340i for the same price. I'm sure the same can be said for the C43 and S4.

And another poke at Acura ... they're more than happy to point out they make 20 more HP in their 2.0T TLX's. We've already come to the conclusion that despite the numbers, that 2.0T doesn't perform particularly well translating that power into performance figures in the real world. With weight and powertrain similar to the RDX, it'll be a struggle for the TLX SH-AWD's to break below 6.0s 0-60 and under 14.0s 1/4 mile. Even C&D initially predicted the 3G RDX would do 0-60 in 5.6-5.7s, but when actually tested did a woeful 6.6s in their tests, 1/4mile in over 15s @ 93MPH. So, you can see how the TLX will fare. By comparison, the 330i xDrive does 0-60 in 5.2s and 1/4 mile in 13.9s @ 100MPH. I don't see the TLX somehow magically bridging this gap while weighing nearly the same. Aero and suspension will help. Perhaps transmission tuning will be more aggressive? It still can't see it making up the difference. I'd wager you don't find any mention of performance figures on Acura's website for the TLX once its released.

I'm not saying we, or Acura, should focus solely on the competition in devising their sales strategy, but it's a factor you simply can't ignore. When sales are low, you'll likely have your reason why. Covid? Maybe. Lackluster unveiling of a new product? Maybe. Better deals and performance/features from the competition for the price? Maybe. Dying market? Maybe. All these are going against the TLX. I don't see this thing weathering those (and other reasons I haven't listed) all too well with the product they've released. Even less so for the Type S with what we know about it thus far.

KeithL

at mid 50s you are looking at a better equipped G70 with LCD gauges for around $56K and I bet those will be discounted very nicely. My only thing will be the TLX will probably be a little more spacious inside because of the transverse engine even with SH-AWD where the G70 has traditional longitudinal mounted RWD based much larger center tunnel. I found the G70 a tad cramped compared to my 19 TLX ASPEC, but if were not for pandemic I would really take one out for a longer test drive, but the damn sales guy is in the car with me constantly telling me about the car.

fiatlux

Hyundai just released pictures of the facelift: https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/2...sedan-refresh/

If nothing else, it's definitely distinctive. I'm getting some Mercedes vibes

Tesla1856

At mid $50k you can buy pretty much whatever premium-brand car you want.

Or you can buy TWO normal cars (ie, a new Accord AND a Civic).

Midnight Mystery

I'd vote to buy the two!

KeithL

Ina few months you will have a G70 Special Edition at $56K which will be a Port with more goodies, nicer wheels and full LCD dash, bigger Infotainment screen and probably decent discounts. Acura on the other hand de-contents the Type-S and will want damn near the same price. Of course I see a Acura pulling a PMC edition where they will add back the content and jack up the price even more. I really would like a Type-S, but it needs to have all the Advance features, not less and they need the PMC Red and not cost $60K. If the G70 had a little more room in it I would have one right now as they are taking close to $10K off 2020 Sport.