When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
doors are gutted out pretty well now...probably only weigh 20lb each now (haven't pulled them off to check)...still have some tack welded braces and brackets to drill out, chop out part of the rear parcel tray and I am going to split the wiring harness open and remove a bunch of unneeded stuff.
stock exhaust seems pretty heavy so it will be going...j-pipe back will be a couple 20"-24" resonators and a single pipe exiting out the rear (need to point to the left for Laguna Seca sound gun avoidance)
battery to be relocated to the rear for a bit of balancing (mostly to get some weight off the front....
need to solidify the motor mounts...probably just plate around them and make it solid...this is not about road noise or limo-type comfort.
hadn't put much thought into aero...cover the grille opening between the lights and duct the lower grille for cooling...probably going to put some lawn edging around the bottom of the front bumper cover...wasn't planning on a wing. Our current civic is like a rolling brick as far as aero so I think the general shape of the car is already and improvement...just need to get it low and the new springs should help.
Stock exhaust is really heavy, especially if you count oem cast iron headers and cat.
Do rules require exhaust to exit rear? If not you could save weight and make car more aero efficient by dumping exhaust in middle or exiting side.
Have been thinking about taking my cast iron wheel hubs and few other parts to machine shop to get price quote on billet aluminum hubs. Might try to get multiple sets made but expect it to be pricey. That should save 40 lbs or more of unsprung weight.
Trying to keep my car looking nice, so won't gut it to the extreme.
Stock exhaust is really heavy, especially if you count oem cast iron headers and cat.
Do rules require exhaust to exit rear? If not you could save weight and make car more aero efficient by dumping exhaust in middle or exiting side.
Have been thinking about taking my cast iron wheel hubs and few other parts to machine shop to get price quote on billet aluminum hubs. Might try to get multiple sets made but expect it to be pricey. That should save 40 lbs or more of unsprung weight.
Trying to keep my car looking nice, so won't gut it to the extreme.
my gutting will probably be more extreme than what anyone would do for a street set-up...exhaust is not limited to stock position but our civic was kicked out the side at one time and was a magnet for curbing (we cut the curbing alot) and always bottomed on our trailer and I would like it to exit beyond the fuel tank...if I follow the stock path and run a single pipe I should be able to keep it tight to the body and just put a little turn down past the gas tank...cat will be eliminated.
the hub idea sounds awesome but would be way over the top for our budget...the fact I am going to weld up my own mounts instead of buying a set of innovative mounts goes to show how much of a budget build this will be...we don't skimp on maintenance, brakes or tires (or safety of course)...but the rest of the build will be on the tight side ...nothing finer than to show up at a race and beat someone whose build cost was 3x yours.
Yea I don't focus on how much I've spent, since a lot of it doesn't make car faster. I just like seeing what a big fwd car can do against rwd and awd cars. Putting in a faster time than c7 vette, lotus, or porsche is a rewarding feeling.
Do you have ability to fab your own headers and exhaust for cheap? The aftermarket offerings are rather disappointing.
What about extra bracing and roll bar or cage. During one autocross my UR 4 point mid brace bolts were loose and I was surprised how noticeable difference was. My wheels were spinning when they never did before.
Roll bar really helped stiffen rear up. Before roll bar I could not get car to rotate like I wanted. Not as necessary for track driving.
Good thing about gutting a fwd car is you automatically stiffen rear by removing so much weight. Because of this you can get away with using off the shelf shocks and springs.
My spring rates are 12k/8k. What springs are on those Konis? Could even go stiffer than me.
What Brake setup do you plan on running? Cl, legend, or RL calipers? Oem brakes are so heavy.
Last edited by brian6speed; 01-22-2016 at 10:35 AM.
I will have a shop build me an exhaust...not fancy just as few bends as possible with a couple big resonators...I don't like the design of the j-pipe but there aren't a lot (if any) options...I have a post on the black market forum looking for a header/j-pipe set-up..not expecting any luck on that.
car will have full 6 point cage welded in...will tag it into the pillars as well for stiffness....I also like a rear end to rotate although most of my fellow racers like it to stay behind the car, I like to be able to kick it out when I need to make a quick change of direction...normally I run a little toe-out in the rear to help this out.
not sure the spring rate on h&r race springs...they are the part# for accord v-6 sedan so hopefully they are expecting a heavy car...I do need a little spring compliance to keep the tires from pushing (a little body roll works better for me)...limited to 180tw tires...probably use re-71r potenzas, our civic performed excellent with them.
probably run the stock brake set-up...I will definitely be using raybestos st-43 compound pads...amazing track pad...might try to find something else that will give me a little more rotor surface area at some point but for now I think this combo should work...as long as I can get enough weight out...still not sure what it will feel like running abs
Nice progress. Meant to ask earlier but has the car been resprayed? That doesn't look like a factory color. Just curious. Keep up the good work, anxious to see how she does on the track!
yes, car is not original color...you can see the original in the interior...it has a strange grey-black type fade...depending on the light...won't be able to colormatch this when I need to change out a panel
You can remove the immobilizer yourself. You just need to take the prom off the ecu by rocking it back and forth till the leads break. You will have a constant CEL though.
removed wiring running along passenger side of car...only 3 wires now coming from dash area going down the right side...2 for right rear abs sensor and a ground wire...another 2.7lb gone and the car still runs!!!!
Word of advice: If you add any wire to your car make sure to label everything or draw a colored schematic. After the new door bar was installed I found that my Supra taillights didn't work. It took a while to trace the problem to an unplugged wire in the area where we were working.
I only had red wire when I built the race car, but I was smart enough to add labels to almost everything.
new rubber juast arrived...went with a 235/45r17...price was unbeatable and the fit pretty square on the 8" rims....swapped in the koni/h&r set-up as wellcar sits a bit lower now...much stiffer set-up than the stock shocks with h&r sports that were on it...too dark for a decent picture....a little more wiring work and it is time to start thinking of the cage build.
yep $102 each landed...$35 cheaper than 245/40...hopefully we can utilize the savings and not be too far off on the track.
going to run 'ec' with Chump...there is no value for it yet and it it gets a value over the next couple years I can swap them out...our civic handles very well with the koni str.t...might just go straight to billy sports...just cost more.
we have a series out west called Lucky Dog...Cathy that was formerly the western chump director foormed it last year...no value basing...classed based on time-in sessions...not a true one class racing like Chump but we ran a combined event with WRL (World Racing League) at the ridge last season...they are power to weight classed...our chump legal civic won the second 8 hour event (first day was another chump civic that won overall - we had just done the same thind at Pacific raceways in Seattle 2 months earlier with Chumpcar...they won day one-we won day 2)...so the newer upstart series are very welcoming to builds of all kinds but we can still go play with Chump as "ec"....
a bit more wiring and drilling out some of the tack welded brackets that have no use and then it is time to start thing of a cage.
sits pretty low now on the h&r race sprigs...don't think I can go much lower without the lower control arms inverting...I think the bumps steer would be brutal
I know there's a difference between fwd and rwd, but I ran into serious bumpsteer issues when I lowered the Supra. Finally had to get Roll Center Adjusters to correct it.
I might still be ok without the extended ball joints....had a look and the car still has a definite downward point to the lcas...need to load the susp to see the range of motion to see how far inverted (if at all) they go....definitely need to dial in more front camber...when I lowered the civic it grabbed a good 2 degrees just in the lowering...the cl is hardly noticable. I had bad experiences with the adjustable upper arms in the civic (skunk type with the slotted a-arm and movable joint with 4 little screws)...tried 2 different brands...both slipped within the first hour on track causing a massive toe out situation both times, killed our result.....are the spc type adjustable joints a better option? (the type that utilizes the stock a-arm with one big nut to tighten).
I think with the tires I am utilizing as they are not overly wide and not r-comps my grip levels probably wont cause the car to roll to the point where the a-arms invert but it will take some testing...camber first.
still need to weld up some motor mounts as well...I have lost my regular garage space so it is more of a challenge to make any progress.
anyone know if the 'planted' seat base for the 2 gen tl fits the cl?...looks like the bolts are in the same place in the picture but they don't list anything for the cl...it would be a much 'cleaner' solution than anything I could fabricate.
I find with my setup around -2 camber in front is good. With my drop and the Ingalls Arms adjusted to max, it is right at -2 camber.
Installed Hardrace pillow ball bushings in my ingall's arms and drilled out the slots slightly for little more adjustment. Havn't had mine slip out of adjustment yet.
Purchased a set of Hardrace arms that should allow more adjustment, but cost too much for budget build.
I had just ingall's balljoints before, but never autocrossed or tracked with them. They were fine for street driving.
What about adjusting caster to add more positive caster? Something I haven't messed with yet. Could add shims to radius Rods or go with offset bushings.
Interested to see what you do for brakes and ABS. I eventually might delete abs, run custom lines, and add Brake proportioning valve. Braking is still weak point, especially with a really front heavy fwd car. The rear can get loose under braking. Not the best feeling on track.
Also interested in if you find a faster steering rack that will bolt up. Not really wanting to delete power steering though.
Purchased a seat base for either a 6th gen accord or 2nd Gen tl. The fitment was kind of off. After opening all the bolt holes up and adding a shim between seat mount and rear inner exhaust tunnel mount it worked.
You could buy it and modify if needed or weld up your own. Not many off the shelf parts work when building a track CL.
Last edited by brian6speed; 02-14-2016 at 07:07 PM.
I was thinking that if I get the spc or ingalls type adjustable ball joint that if I 'stake' it in place when I figure our where I want it that it would be less likely to shift.
on our eg civic we did add some positive caster through shifting the upper control arm...unlike the cl the civic has a girdle that the arm is attatches to and that girdle is then bolted into the strut tower...we shaved a little sleeve/bushing material out of the arm and added flat washers to move the uca rearward in the girdle...giving us maybe .5-1 degree caster...car hooks great out of the corners ..unfortunately we also did a spring change and tire manufaturer change at the same time so who is to say what caused the improved grip on exit.
my thoughts also were that if I used the adjustable b-joint that I could 'clock' the pressed in shim that the joint slides in to allow a bit of rear ward motion in the joint as I added camber - effectively adding a minor amount of caster af well...still up in the air on it though.
abs really is a major unknown for me...alot of the bmw teams are running it without complaint as well as others I am sure but our non-abs civic outbrakes basically everything...we can go much deeper before we need to brake...might just have to try it and asses afterwards.
picked up a couple parts cars...both 03 type s...one 6spd hit front and one auto hit rear so I have lots of spares now ....one of them had this little gem (destined for the track car)
anybody need anything let me know...shipping will be a tad pricey as I am in Canada but the parts will be more than reasonably priced.
Just read for chumpcar the car must be valued at $500 or less. How is that even possible with CL?
If someone gives you parts for free do they not add to budget?
I personally hate this type of racing where who wins is just whoever is best at cheating/bending rules. Seems like it would take some of the fun out of it for me.
Redline Time Attack is my goal.
Last edited by brian6speed; 02-16-2016 at 12:35 PM.
Just read for chumpcar the car must be valued at $500 or less. How is that even possible with CL?
If someone gives you parts for free do they not add to budget?
I personally hate this type of racing where who wins is just whoever is best at cheating/bending rules. Seems like it would take some of the fun out of it for me.
Redline Time Attack is my goal.
Nevermind, read part of rules.
So was CL a listed car, I assume not? Did you get ahold of them to see assessed value of 03 CLS6? Curious what they came up with. Might end up under-rating the CL since Noone knows about it and comes with stock lsd.
car will be running with chump in the 'exception class' (ec)...class created for cars that are valued over the 500 point base to the point where the lap penalty would be excessive either because the base value of the car is too high (acura cl) or the parts added to the car make the value too high (miata with a hardtop is considered 'ec')...there are other race series (lucky dog and world racing league) that are class based not value based...we will be doing a combination of events in all of these series...eventually the value will come down in Chump to the point where it can run as a regular classed car and I will remove the konis and run for points.
whule some of the cars that are wininng may be a bit 'tainted'...there are lots that are not...personally our b18b swapped eg civic is valued at 499 points so we take no laps...we have won several races (overall win not a class win) against 5.0 mustangs, e30 and e36 bmws, 240sx, rx7s miatas ect...it is not usually who is the fastest (our fastest laps are usually just barely in the top 10)...it is strategy and consistency that usually takes the checkered.
Ok starting to make more sense now after reading more.
What MPV did they give stock CL? Is there a limit for EC class? 1000?
Can probably help go over list and figure out what mods are worth doing.
Seems like you want to avoid aftermarket parts in general, especially big name money parts, and stick to custom made or Ebay parts.
It says can swap bushings to rubber, poly, or delrin for 0 points. I'm guessing pillow ball wouldn't count and cost points.
For strut bar it says 10 points for aftermarket or custom, but does not mention how many mounting points you can have or whether it can bolt to firewall etc.
Aftermarket air filter and brake ducts cost 0 points, so those should be done.
Suspension components 10 pts each. Because of this limit it to just camber adjustment parts.
Swaybars. Keep front stock, not worth 50 points for aftermarket. For rear it might be worth 30 points to get progress rear sway bar.
Do you plan on upgrading bushings to harder rubber or poly? Seems like a good thing to do if it costs no points.
Since safety equipment is free just build robust cage to stiffen chassis.
Exhaust header at 50 pts is worth it. Custom long tube equal length would be ideal.
Could try running stiffer/different springs on stock dampers. If ID and OD is same cost 0 points.
Seems like you could do so many small mods and Noone would even notice unless they crawl completely under car. Even then, no one is familiar with an Acura CL and won't even know what to look for since you will be only CL.
Last edited by brian6speed; 02-16-2016 at 04:40 PM.
Ok starting to make more sense now after reading more.
What MPV did they give stock CL? Is there a limit for EC class? 1000?
Can probably help go over list and figure out what mods are worth doing.
Seems like you want to avoid aftermarket parts in general, especially big name money parts, and stick to custom made or Ebay parts.
It says can swap bushings to rubber, poly, or delrin for 0 points. I'm guessing pillow ball wouldn't count and cost points.
For strut bar it says 10 points for aftermarket or custom, but does not mention how many mounting points you can have or whether it can bolt to firewall etc.
Aftermarket air filter and brake ducts cost 0 points, so those should be done.
Suspension components 10 pts each. Because of this limit it to just camber adjustment parts.
Swaybars. Keep front stock, not worth 50 points for aftermarket. For rear it might be worth 30 points to get progress rear sway bar.
Do you plan on upgrading bushings to harder rubber or poly? Seems like a good thing to do if it costs no points.
Since safety equipment is free just build robust cage to stiffen chassis.
Exhaust header at 50 pts is worth it. Custom long tube equal length would be ideal.
Could try running stiffer/different springs on stock dampers. If ID and OD is same cost 0 points.
Seems like you could do so many small mods and Noone would even notice unless they crawl completely under car. Even then, no one is familiar with an Acura CL and won't even know what to look for since you will be only CL.
no value yet on cl...they may put an arbitrary value on it when i bring it out...rest assured it will be valued high enough to put it straight to 'ec'
the first race we ever did with out civic we had no values for anything...b16 swap, koni yellows, ect...car was given a value of $1030...meaning 53 penalty laps if we wanted to run for regular chump...but the race was 36 hours long so it carried a multiplier of 2.5...we ran with 133 lap penalty (spokane raceway)...finished 29th out of 50...first time out...if we had no penalty would have been 14th.
the trophies are cool (we have a few now) but they aren't the reason to do this...just trying to make a stab at building a reasonably fast car.
also the top 5 cars are impounded at the end of every race...up on jacks, wheels off hood open...anyone can check them out and protest things that don't look correct...it happens...car that finished 2nd behind us at Laguna Seca last summer was an e30 bmw from Minnesota, they had there ecu protested and were found to have an aftermarket chip...they were assessed the 8 laps for the value of the chip and bounced fron 2nd to 14th.
just want to have fun with it but also want to show up prepared to race...these things are far from easy to do well in.
Just for giggles, I found two pictures off rockauto for the '95 Legend caliper and an 03 MDX and it appears that the MDX caliper may be a little 'beefier'; however, it's far from conclusive.
Just read for chumpcar the car must be valued at $500 or less.
I personally hate this type of racing where who wins is just whoever is best at cheating/bending rules. Seems like it would take some of the fun out of it for me.
Chump Car is bullshit. NO ONE only pays $500. It's complete bullshit.
Chump Car is bullshit. NO ONE only pays $500. It's complete bullshit.
they have changed their wording..no longer $500...500 points based on values on a table plus upgrades...have you raced with them before?..you are correct nobody pays $500 for these cars..back in 2009 when it started it was more in the way of a $500 car (before safety and tires)
No. I have several buddies that do. I prefer to put my $ in karting as to it's actually less expensive & (to ME) way more of a thrill (once again IMO).
01-21-2016, 11:12 AM
...nothing finer than to show up at a race and beat someone whose build cost was 3x yours.
