thedeathprojects

Hey all!

I work at an Acura dealer in Cleveland and we got our 'demo' Type S the other day....and have had NOT ONE lead on it. Considering they are making only 200 of these THIS YEAR, I'm a BIT surprised? But then I'm not? Pricing is obserd, IMHO...for a Civic.

But anyway...thoughts??

mvl

Seems to be lots of demand online. Post the dealer name, I'm sure they'll get tons of calls from around the country if you have it in stock (and not crazy ADM). Many are saying they are on a waitlist.

thedeathprojects

Vince at Crown Acura, Cleveland....it's the "demo" car, so has to sit for 28 days yet...but won't be 'demo driven' after a deposit is received. Just FYI.

Thanks

thedeathprojects

And oddly enough? We have 2 orders left of the initial 200...we got 4 total, plus the floor car.

mvl

The savagegeese people said they run 1500 cars per single color batch, and blues and whites are seen on lots and in California, so there should be at least 3000 already made and they would be stupid to throttle only 200 for the year.

I have heard allocations for the rest of 23 ITS were in the 3-5x range of the 300-car TLX PMC, so I would guess 3000 for CY23.

I think the 200 was just the online preorders for the first wave. There are 200 Acura dealers in the country, if yours got 5 there is no way they only make 200 this year.

thedeathprojects

Think what you want, but we are only getting 4 this year...and they are 24's, not 23's....and we are a Premium Prestige dealer....we got one of the 50 Gotham PMC made....so for the rest of this year, we won't see anything any more than this initial order. Regardless of what colors they build and when and how many....

NBPDC505

My local dealer got their white Type-S with CF spoiler and copper wheels demo car in a couple days ago as well. Need to go by and take a look.

mvl

5x gotham does equal 250 so your stats do support a target of 200, much lower than the math I did from others guestimate sources.

I'm in my dealer for service tomorrow and will ask them how many ITSs they are getting, they got two TLX PMCs but neither was a gotham, and had 2 NSXs in 2017, so they have two datapoints running 2/300ths of national rare car allocations. Their allocation would be another good guestimate of ITS manufacture.

NwTSXmt

I saw a white one today at Pokanka Acura in VA...hot looking vehicle with over 10k worth ADM and dealer added extras...I did do a double take its a looker for sure...

mvl

So I did some rough math: within 50 miles of my house there are 80-90 RDXs and Integras (all trims) for sale per the Acura new inventory locator, and those models are running about 2800/month each in sales. There are 7 ITSs for sale, so the equivalent would be 230 expected sales this month. So that would line up with 200 from Crown Cleveland, only if the remaining runs for this year are done. A couple dealers have said their initial allocation is their entire CY23 allocation, so that is possible.

One of the youtubers said Acura told them in California that they are targeting 10% of Integra sales to be TypeS models, so that would instead lead to 200/month, but maybe the Anna engine plant needs to finish CTR supply first so that ITS delivery cadence may not occur until CY24.

BTW all the ITSs are blue or white, but there is one Tiger Eye for sale in my area so I guess they are running that color too, but more likely did a special low volume run for the press and that dealer got one.

GhostTL09

iTrader: (1)

What's your position at the dealership

leomio2.0

Some time ago, some guy on Reddit said his dealer refused to order any more TEP cars. It was such a polarizing color. After the few people who loved the color got them, they couldn't give them away. Even during peak shortages, they had to sell the TEPs for discounts because nobody wanted them. They would only special order TEP if someone came in specifically asking for it. He said since they refused to order them, they hadn't had a single order. I would imagine there's a reason that TEP is such a limited color with the ITS as well.

leomio2.0

I'm confused by the lingo. When you say you have not had "one lead" ... do you mean not a single order has been placed? From the sounds of it, sounds like plenty of people were going to their dealer and putting themselves on a list. Are you guys charging exorbitant mark-ups? Because that could be the reason. The car, IMO, isn't worth sticker, let alone mark-up ... unless you have the patience and maturity of a toddler and have to be one of the first ones to have one.

From watching the reviews, the road noise is god awful (despite people saying it's better than the CTR). Ride quality seems like it's better, which is good. Interior actually looks worse than the Civic IMHO. The more I see it, the more I dislike the Integra's dash layout. That slab of grey just looks miserable. The Civic's long piece of honeycomb looks leagues better. The ITS definitely improved things enough (from what I saw in reviews) to fix the CTR for a more livable car, but it'll still be a cold, dark day in Hell before I pay $51k + TTL for one. Just my own personal opinion.

JM2010 SH-AWD

Three in at my dealer this week. Two are sold, the other is the loaded up demo, which they can't sell for some period.

ELIN

Did the SG video mention that the 1500 cars/color batch was for all of North America (i.e. US and Canada)?

thedeathprojects

There isn't going to be anywhere close to 3k of these...just FYI. It's on par with the Civic Type R...justa few more. We are guestimating around 800 or so for the rest of the year. And we based that one how many we got, vs the average per dealer, and how many dealers out there....

MDXAccord

The CTR just became the best value with dealer Markup.

$59k for the CTR vs $67k for the ITS.

Unreal

leomio2.0

... for the first year. Manufacturers don't profit from dealer mark-ups. If the ITS is a hit, Acura would be foolish to not start churning them out. Despite the supply chain constraints easing, they're not completely over. I still can't find an M3 at any dealer to test drive, with most people waiting a year to get their order filled ... but getting them at MSRP. Once things are 100% back to "normal", I'd imagine 3,000 units a year would be very realistic for Acura to produce annually.

leomio2.0

As the proverb goes: "A fool and his money are soon parted"

MDXAccord

There seems to be a lot of fools, including people paying over MSRP for used with a lot of miles…..

Pens Fan

I watched the Savagegeese video again and they state that each batch of colors is 50-100. I visited the Marysville plant a few years ago and saw this exact breakdown-there were 50 fathom Blue TLX on the assembly line followed by 50 Honda Accords (Silver).

Each of their assembly lines in all of their factories produce vehicles this way.

JM2010 SH-AWD

^^ Exactly. We did the same tour and saw that as well.

When we were waiting for our Pearl Red Integra last year, in looking at AutoTrader, you could see the waves of colors arriving at dealers. For a long while red Integras were very hard to find. Right about the time ours came in, there were many more of them that showed up for a period at dealers around the country. I'm sure ITS will be the same, just in smaller numbers.

Rmsanger

My local Acura dealer (SLC) just got theirs in yesterday for the demo... they are putting some new wheels and accessories on it today and will be in showroom tomorrow. They said they have 3 allocations this year and a deposit list for 10 buyers they are seeing much different activity than your location.

leomio2.0

Yep. I don't imagine Acura limiting numbers if they can cash out on how good the car is. It's a street car, not a mystical track machine (though I don't personally get the allure of the CTRs that are running around that never see a track). You'll be able to get these cars for sticker in less than a year's time after all the "gotta have it now [because I never learned patience as a child]" folks get them for over sticker and demand plummets off a cliff. Even then, I'm completely disinterested in it at MSRP.

scottns

Acura of Auburn in central MA.

ELIN

There are going to be so many owners under water it's going to be like the housing crisis from '07!

mvl

50-100 batches sounds more realistic, sorry if I misheard that. My dealer had one demo and one for sale. Lines up with 300-ish national availability through year end.

As one of the few cars where they got to clean-sheet their pricing after the pandemic, I presume there is higher than typical margin for Acura.on this. So if there is interest it seems like they can pivot to pumping out more to hit demand.

ELIN

The corrected batch number makes more sense especially because the ITS only comes in manual. How much of the US population knows how to drive a stick? 10-15% (and shrinking)?

There are HS kids who have never known a world w/o the iPhone. The push for EVs and increasing reliance on AI will have upcoming generations saying "what's a stick?".

thedeathprojects

Potentially. The civic type bar won’t see that problem. Those things are worth stupid money. It’s all about supplying demand. But paying five grand over or so? That’s not a big deal for an Acura. I still wouldn’t do it on an Integra, though… On a Civic type R? That I would do.

thedeathprojects

Yeah, that’s a dealer car. Every dealer should’ve got one. And they are required to put every accessory available on them. So that’s not something that they do just because. They had to do that. That car also won’t be for sale for about 30 days after they got it.so the fact that it’s 61? That’s pretty good deal on that one because that’s basically MSRP.

I jump all over that car if you don’t care about all the ads

fiatlux

I had a chance to test drive one, and the tl;dr is that if once/if the car comes down to MSRP, I'll buy it. Maybe by then they'll release Phoenix Yellow...

I've said before that if you've driven the CTR and driven the 6MT Integra then you can probably imagine what this car would drive like, and after the test drive I can say with full conviction that is indeed true. It feels exactly what you would expect if you married those two cars together. When pushed hard, it feels pretty much exactly like the CTR, but most importantly, it's a lot more comfortable on the road. It 100% addresses one of the two major flaws with the Integra: the anemic powertrain (unfortunately the cheapness/road noise is still there).

Yeah, the car still feels a bit cheap (and a lot cheap in the backseat), and it's still pretty loud, but those are things I can live with especially given just how fantastic it drives. Sticker vs sticker, would I buy it over the CTR? Yes because I absolutely appreciate the extra comfort. I'm bummed it doesn't have the cool dash and seats the CTR has, but on the flip side the exhaust sounds much better than the CTR. Would I buy it over its competitors at the same price point? Yes because none of them can be had with a 6MT. They're all fast cars (in a straight line), and offer more speed for the money, but the driving experience has been been diluted and watered down to appeal to more people. The ITS (even though it's softer than the CTR) still drives like it was made for enthusiasts and enthusiasts only. It's subjective, but to me it offers more fun for the buck than most anything else out there. I view it like the Miata or 86; not the fastest car out there, not the most performance for the money, but they are oh so fun and enjoyable to drive. For that I have to give Acura credit; they could have mailed it and given us something neutered like the MDX Type S, but instead they fully preserved the CTR's driving dynamics and engagement factor.

ELIN

Appreciate the review!

Acura had to mail in the MDX Type S. There was no Pilot Type R to copy from!

neuronbob

I care, LOL. I’m in the Cleveland area, my preferred dealer has two in their showroom, both sold (one being the mostly fully loaded demo), and I just put in a deposit for one tonight. Yes, small ADM, but making that up with accessories I’d buy anyway. I will miss my RLX SH when I sell it, but I think this will be my last Acura ICE vehicle, so I will enjoy the shiz out of it.

Tony Pac

It’s crazy how much more these dealers are charging. Saw Corolla for $80K and GV70 for $10K over MSRP. The dealers in the US are going nuts. Thank god, in Canada they can’t do it. Okay sure they force you for some accessories. But who cares??? $1-2K no big deal…. But people paying $80K for a Corolla 🤣🤣🤣

JM2010 SH-AWD

The US dealers (most brands) got consumers conditioned to short supply/MSRP+ pricing over the last two years. Now comes along a car that is universally praised and one of a small group of cars that is: 1) fun to drive; 2) a manual; 3) not an SUV or an EV; 4) likely to be reliable; and 5) under 100K, so it's a perfect storm.

I'm hoping things calm down in 6-12 months and supply/demand get a little more in balance.

We like our A Spec a lot. I can only imagine how much fun the car would be with wider stance/tires and an extra 50% more power.

(Gotta stop watching these reviews for a while).

ELIN

Why would the demand for the ITS change months from now? It's a manual transmission so you either really want it or you don't! There's really no middle ground for such a niche product!

Are you waiting for a "stick shift renaissance" to suddenly appear and change the landscape?

JM2010 SH-AWD

The whole sentence was that I was waiting for "supply/demand to get a little more in balance." That means supply increases and demand drops some because initial demand has already been satisfied. A normal progression when a new model debuts.

I like the car and would like to test drive, at the least. I don't want to pay ADM or for add-ons that don't provide value to me.

ELIN

How long has the CTR been out? How long has it commanded ADM?

JM2010 SH-AWD

And now it's coupled with another similar car that may double or more the number of combined units available to the market, a market that is a small subset of all North American automobile buyers. If it works out for me, it does. If not, c'est la vie.

silverTL6

iTrader: (2)

Just saw my first one in the wild (not on a dealer lot), and looks pretty good in motion. But I can't begin to imagine how much ADM this sucker paid to get the first non-demo off the truck, esp here in the Bay Area, CA where folks are perceived to have deeper pockets.

It's basically the FL5 frenzy all over again, except now they're trading in that car and getting reamed, on top of being underwater already due to high interest rates (but it's easier than patiently waiting for a private sale). Then wash, rinse, and repeat for the next shiny new thing from Honda/Acura, BMW, Tesla, etc. every 1-2 years when the boredom kicks in again.