dom

Looking for a TV for the almost finished basement. My budget is about $2,000 to $2500 and I'd like a min of 50 inches. Wall mounting or size isn't important so I've narrowed it down to these 3 so far.

Any thoughts or perhaps suggestions for others?

Samsung 50" Wide Screen DLP Projection HDTV - HLR5064

Panasonic 52" LCD Projection Television - PT-52LCX65

Sony Wega 50" Widescreen LCD Projection HDTV - KFE50A10

Currently, the Samsung is on sale for $1999,99, the Sony for $2299.98 and the Panasonic $2199.99.

Scrib

What about the new HLS series from Samsung? 1080p.

http://www.samsung.com/Products/TV/D...S5088WXXAA.asp

Scrib

Btw... I have the Sony, but in the 42". I like the set.

dom

Thanks Scrib,

Havn't seen that TV in any of the major stores up here, nor is it even listed on Samsung's Canadian website. But at $2999 US its probly 3K CAD, and more than I wanted to spend. I'd like to get a 1080p TV but I kinda need it now and prices for those things are still too high.

It also kinda bugs me that my 5 year old 36" Wega CRT looks alot clearer than all of these TV's I saw on the weekend.

Acuraluvr

iTrader: (2)

i still would be weary for projection tvs because of viewing angles and such but for the price you cannot beat it.....

cheap, well made plasma is the Vizio 50 in plasma tv

$2450 us

dom

Most name brand plasma's and LCD's start at $2500. And that gets you a 42" EDTV.

I'd like to be out the door around $2,200-2,300 taxes in. We pay 15% taxes.

Whiskers

Dom, as your friend I won't say a word here....

Dan Martin

Dom, I bought the Sony 42" LCD projection about 2 years ago and have been pretty happy with it, although I do have some reservations. My parents have the same 36" WEGA CRT as you, and I fully admit that it is better than my TV for standard broadcasts, but HD on my set is much better. If you're not going with an HDTV signal, you might as well keep your old TV.

I had Rogers HD for a 3-month trial and it was amazing. However, it was also around $120/mo and for the 4 hours of TV I watch a week, I couldn't justify it. The only time my set sees HD now is when I'm feeding it a signal from my computer. If/when HD-DVD or Blu-ray takes off, I'll be happy, but until then, I can't help but feel I've wasted my money. The 36" WEGA was around $1500 when I was buying my set for $4000.

Hindsight is 20/20 but I've learned my lesson about being an early adopter.

dom

Thanks, I think......

dom

Dan clear something up from me. Do I have to suscribe to HD to get those HD broadcasts. For example, CBC shows HNIC games in regular and in HD on a different channel. I always presumed I could catch the game in HD if I had an HD receiver?

I have ExpressVu so I was hoping to pick up a HD receiver for the basement. But definently won't be suscribing to any HD programming.

And I'll be keeping the 36" Sony in the Family room upstairs.


EDIT: http://www.bell.ca/shopping/PrsShpTv...V_Landing.page

All teh channels listed above are HD channels. I presumed I get those with a HD receiver?

dom

NM, looks like HD programming is a seperate package.

Nevertheless, still need a TV. The picture qulaity on my Sony using Satellite is night and day compared to when I was with regular cable on Rogers. I can only hope the poor pic quality I saw at stores on the weekend was caused by regular cable.

Dan Martin

Yep, you get a limited number of channels as a part of your HD package. The one thing to keep in mind is that although the channel is being broadcast in HD, it doesn't mean that all the shows were recorded in HD. SD on HD still looks like ass.

I know many shows are now being recorded in HD, and if you watch prime time shows, chances are they are recorded in HD.

fdl

How big is the room? If you are going to be viewing the TV from any sort of angle, get a plasma instead. You can pick up a decent 42 inch plasma for $2000 - $2500. But if you need the bigger screen and you can sit right out front, the DLP's are a great bang for the buck.

dom

It will be viewed from head on. The furthest sofa will be positioned about 15 feet away from the set.

I'm strongly leaning towards the Samsung DLP. From the searching I've done everyone seems to like it. The only thing is its not 1080p and doesn't have Samsung's new technoology that replaced the color wheel. But I need the TV within a week or two and 1080p TV's are alot more more $$. Besides the fact that 1080p won't be available in homes for several years anyway.

The only 42' Plasma I saw was a Panasonic. It was $2,499. But EDTV which is apparently a no no.

fdl

You can get a 42 inch plasma LG HDTV for that price or less.

dom

But you can't play games on a plasma right?

I plan to eventually hook up an Xbox or PS to this thing.

fdl

Ya, i've read that because of burn in, plasma and games arent the best match. I'm sure its possible, but I suppose a flat planel LCD or any projection technology would be safer.

Scrib

Dom, don't buy a plasma for gaming. It's just not worth the risk.

dom

Ya, Plasma is probly out of the question for cost alone.

So any more opinions on which of the 3 I should get? How does sound compare on each? Any opinions on the Panasonic. Having found many opinions on their LCD projections.

dom

Now I get it.

I just finished reading that thread and all I can say is

Siggy's post...

All 3 of these TV's I'm looking at have a 1280x720 resolution which I guess means they aren't really HD TV's? They also have a 16:9 aspect ratio which means they'll have to convert to get there?

And what about bulb's? I'll have to replace bulbs in these TV's? How much are they?

bkknight369

Siggy wont be happy unless you spend $4000 on a 1080P television

Do yourself a favor...go to a store with a 720p TV and a 1080P tv, take a DVD (something with dark and variable light scenes), and play them side-by-side from an appropriate distance. If you notice the difference, then consider if its worth the extra cost. If you dont, then buy something with 1280x720 or 1280x800 resolution (I believe most 42" plasmas are 1024x768 resolution, and i DID notice the difference between that and 1280x768 from teh distance I sit)

Dan Martin

1280x720 is a native HD resolution and the proper 16:9 ratio. If the signal coming in is 1080 lines, it will be scaled down to 720. Scaling down is far better than scaling up, but of course no scaling is best.

LCD projection and DLP sets all use bulbs to project their image. The bulb life is listed on their website, but it's a very very long time before they need to be replaced. I think they typically run 3000 to 6000 hours between replacements. If you watch TV for 4 hours a day, every day, they'll last between 2 and 4 years.

A bulb costs a couple hundred bucks, but the TV will practically be brand new when you replace it.

dom

Thanks Dan. Good to know about the bulbs. Should last me a good 6 months.

I came across another question after searching through this section. Particulary this thread.

https://acurazine.com/forums/home-theater-electronics-45/if-you-want-next-generation-dvd-players-you-better-buy-new-tv-too-329927/

I guess its a good idea to get a true 1080p TV to take advantage of the new DVD format?

I think I'm over thinking this. Either I buy now or just wait for prices of 1080p TV's to come down. Although I need the TV now.

Dan Martin

The difference between 1080p and 720p is negligible. I have seen both side by side and I couldn't tell the difference untill I was within a foot of the screen. It's one of those specs that looks good on paper, but really doesn't mean much in real life.

bkknight369

one more note about bulb replacement...at best buy if you buy the extended warranty on an LCD projection, it also covers the bulb...so if the bulb goes out in those 4 years, you get a replacement + installation for free

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Definitely not true, especially when looking at larger screens. If you were looking at a 42" screen, then yes, most people cannot tell a big difference . However, if you're looking at a larger screen, the difference is VERY noticable. Look at fast motion (sports or something) on a 60" screen in 720p and 1080p side by side. The artifacting on the 720p screen will be VERY noticable whereas the 1080p screen will look much, much cleaner. In addition the fact remains that the 1080p set has a higher resolution, so it is the latest and greatest as far as that goes. With BluRay and HD-DVD capable of outputting 1080p, and the PS3 following suit... it's definitely not a bad idea to get a 1080p set. Plus, if you wait a few more months the prices of the 1080p sets will be very close to what the 720p sets are today. In fact, I saw a Circuit City ad this weekend for the Sammy 56" 1080p with the dual HDMI inputs and it was onlyu $2999. The 50" was $2699. When I bought my 50" Sammy DLP around this time last year, that was the regular price of my set. So prices are right on track, and for the money I would definitely get the 1080p, regardless of set size.

As for the bulbs, as mentioned above, you should get a good 2-4 years out of them. I actually bought the Best Buy warranty which covers bulbs (not sure if it still does, but they were included at the time), so I figure I'll get one bulb out of them which covers the warranty cost and be in good shape. We are in the market for a new TV but I am holding out until Sammy releases their LED light engine which will be replacing the color wheel. So in addition to a better picture, especially with fast moving pictures, bulb replacement will be a thing of the past. That should be out late summer this year, so I figure this time next year will be a good time to get one of those (let them work out the kinks and have the price drop a bit).

Out of the TVs you listed, I'd get none... but I would get the 1080p Sammy 50" set. I personally hate rear projection LCD's. I owned the Sony 60" LCD and returned it after a month. The artifacting was horrible, especially when watching football and other fast paced sports, something I watch a lot of, and the artifacting was terrible. It was so bad that even my wife noticed it... and she does not notice things like this and normal claims I'm being too anal. Also, the screen-door effect bothered the hell out of me. I couldn't stop seeing it. Now that my wife couldn't see, but I could, so between that and the artifacting, after 30 days, back it went. Now, 95% of the people out there would never notice those things (just like DLPs have rainbows, but I have never ever seen them... and neither have most people), so don't take my word as 100% fact, but, my personal opinion, I do not like rear projection LCDs and I will never ever buy one again.

As much as people are fighting it... 720p/1080i is become the older technology, and 1080p is taking over. Why do you think every manufacturer is putting out 1080p sets and clearing out the 720p/1080i ones? Personally with all of the new stuff coming out that will be supporting 1080p, I wouldn't go any other route at this point. If you were making a purchase 6-8 months ago it would be a different story b/c prices were higher and HD-DVD, BluRay, and PS3 1080p support wasn't really public info. But knowing everything we know now and the fact that the 1080p prices have come as low as they have already there's no way you could convince me to buy anything other then a 1080p. I mean, I'm all for saving money, but I would never spend $2k+ on a TV, something you really only purchase once every 3-6 years (sometimes longer), and spend that much money on technology that's on its way out. If they're trying to phase out 720p now, and have been for the last year, where will 720p be in 2-4 years?

So, the fact that I'm totally a Sammy fanboy (50" DLP and 42" plasma) I would go with the 1080p Sammy DLP. But again, that's just me

dom

Thanks junior,

I guess I'm buying a TV at a fairly bad time. The only Sammy 50" with 1080p I can find (HL_R5078W) is $2,999 CAD. And even that "- Full HD 1920 x 1080p digital format converter for all inputs" No sure what that means?

With taxes that works out to $3,500 CAD, way more than I wanted to spend. Looks like I have some thinking to do.

Dan Martin

The fact is anything you buy today will be outdated in 2-4 years so it really doesn't matter. When I was buying my set, I could easily see the rainbows on DLPs but I couldn't see the "screen door" effect on my set. I guess it's just whatever you're comfortable with.

Same goes for the artifacting... I couldn't see it on either the 720p or the 1080p sets that were sitting next to eachother, but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist. I would always recommend staying in the native resolution of the source, so if everything is being displayed as it was intended. I had no idea the prices have dropped that much, because when I was doing the comparison in the store, the 1080p was nearly triple the price of the 720p.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

All that means is that the TV will upconvert all inputs to 1080p. So if you plug something in via S-Video or composite, the TV upconverts it to 1080p even if it's 480p or 720p. The new set has 2 HDMI inputs, 1 is native 1080p (means you can hook up a 1080p product like a BluRay DVD player and no conversion is necessary). The second one is likely 720p, so anything plugged into that will be upconverted like the others mentioned above.

BTW, don't get me wrong about the 720p sets. My Sammy 50" from last year is 720p, and I still love it. The picture is awesome and I'm very happy every time I watch it. You're right though, you're kind of in a cross road here... so it really depends on timing and when you want to make the actual purchase.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Yeah, it's nuts. But this is the second 1080p model release for most manufacturers, 3rd for others... so the pricing is much more along the lines of where 720p was about 8-12 months ago b/c the technology is cheaper to make and has become more "mainstream".

If he sticks with a 50" or so the artifacting will be minor. I see it very, very rarely on my 50" DLP. But, when I had the 60" Sony, it was horrible. Granted it didn't happen all of the time, but during a football game it would happen at least every 5 plays or so and by varying degrees, but it drove me nuts. And, as mentioned, my wife even noticed it... so I knew it was bad. Now, if you watch football on Sony's new SXBR 60" (1080p), the artifacting is almost non-existent. Being that my experience with the 60" LCD soured me on Sony, it would be tough to get me to buy the SXBR, however, the fact that it's Sony's new technology and is 1080p has cured the problem that was so previlant on Sony's LCD of the exact same size.

dom

My new sofa's are being delivered June 17th.

Like Dan said, there's always something better just around the corner. I just don't like the idea of being limited to what I can and can't do. At the same time budget is a factor here. The 50' 720p Sammy can be mine for $2241 tax in. The 1080p is again $3448. Dammit.

Maybe I'll move my 36" Sony to the basement while I wait.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

True, however, in this case it's not that it's just around the corner... it's here. As I mentioned above, most of the big companies have been making 1080p sets for some time, and, for example, Samsung this year is only releasing 1080p sets. There are no new 720p DLP sets from Sammy for 2006... 1080p only. So again, it's not really that it's around the corner, it's happening now.

Moving the TV isn't a bad idea to wait a few months for prices to drop even more (which they will... they always do). That's what we're doing. We moved the Sammy 50" down from the bonus room after we returned the 60" Sony last November, and my 32" Sony CRT HD is in the bonus room. I'm just sitting back waiting, letting everything be released, and once prices drop I'll scoop up one of the new Sammy 1080p DLPs in a bigger size then what I have now, then move the 50" back upstairs.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

FWIW, you could always get the 720p now... and enjoy it now (which you will... as mentioned I still love mine). Then a few years down the road purchase a 1080p when prices are like they are now for the 720p sets, and move the 50" 720p set into another room.

That way you can get your cake (now) and eat it too (down the road) ...

dom

Thought about that as well. Also contemplating getting a regular old projection for 1-1.5K and upgrading in a few years, like you said. But I've always been of the mentality that TV's should last a min of 15 years.

My parents still have a 1988 RCA tube . I plan to keep my 36" Sony til it no longer works. I can't see myself flipping a 2 or 3 year old TV. I'm going to think about this alot more but like you said, 1080p TV's are already here, doesn't make much sense IMO limiting yourself to 720p.

Having said that I probly won't be making use of 1080p for 5 years.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

True, however, like you said yourself... you're someone who expects many, many years out of your TV. So getting a 1080p TV will have you set for a long time.

Oh and BTW, 5 years may be a stretch. Both HD-DVD and BluRay support 1080p output... so all they need is a studio to put a 1080p movie to disk and bam... 1080p will be in use. I'd say we're about 1 year away max from the first 1080p BluRay or HD-DVD disk. So for you, maybe 2-3 years away before you scoop up a player...

fdl

I dont buy this. Even when 1080p becomes the standard, 1080i will still look good and most people wont be able to tell the difference on anything less than 50 inches. So yes, your technology will be outdated, but its not like you need to throw it in the trash.

Wait for 1080p, then there will be 1080x or something that is the next big thing and you are still in the same boat. There will always be something new because thats how manufactorers make money.

Fibonacci

Do you have a Costco near you? I've seen Plasma's close to your price point. Plasma's better for watching sports, LCD's better contrast for watching movies - so I've been told. I'm still holding out a tad longer.

Better bust a move if you plan to watch World Cup games, it appears they will only be shown on ABCHD, ESPNHD and ESPN2HD.

fdl

[QUOTE=PistonFanI'm still holding out a tad longer.

[/QUOTE]


why am i not surprised

dom

Thanks for all the help and suggestions everyone. I think I'm going to go with juniorbean's advice though. IMO it doesn't make sense to not get a 1080p TV when the technology is already here. If it was a a year or two off then it wouldn't make sense. But the fact that I can make use of it through a new DVD player or a PS3 is enough reason to hold off a few more months.

I figure the Sammy 50" 1080p thats $2999 now should fall into my price range within a few months anyway. Although I have no idea what I'll do in the meantime for a TV in the basement. Moving the 36' Sony down there isn't an option considering it weighs ~250.

On another note I found out last night my father picked up a 43" Hitachi projection 720p for $1,250 tax and ext warranty in. My brother in law manages a department store so he hooked him up. Can't wait to see how it performs.

juniorbean

iTrader: (5)

Well, yes and no. A lot of people aren't buying into the 1080p hype for the exact reasons you posted... but here are the facts....

Fact - Most major manufacturers are no longer releasing new 720p/1080i models, only 1080p

Fact - 720p sets are being cleared off of the shelves to make room for the above mentioned 1080p lines

Fact - Prices of the new 1080p models are in line with where the 720p sets were this time last year, meaning 1080p is now the mainstream

Fact - Devices like BlueRay, HD-DVD, and PS3 already support 1080p NOW. All that is needed is 1080p media which is not far away at all.

Fact - 1080p is replacing 1080i/720p as the next technology. Will something come after it, sure, but nothing is on the horizon right now.

I mean, would you have bought a leftover 2003 TL in December of 2004 when you could buy a redesigned 2004 or 2005 TL with all of the new technology for just a little more money? Of course not. So why do that with your TV? Especially when you factor in that someone like Dom is looking to get many, many years out of his TV. You make one purchase now, and you're set for very many years to come w/o needing to upgrade anything.

To each their own, but to me, it doesn't make sense not to go 1080p. If this conversation was happening last year it would be a different story... but at this point with the technology even more perfected and prices so low, to me, it's a no brainer.