Blu-Ray vs. HD DVD?
01-06-2008, 11:21 PM
#121
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Originally Posted by AdamNJ
HD DVD has a higher actually created disc capacity (3 layer - 51 gig).
And it was unclear whether triple-layer was backward compatible.
http://www.hometheatermag.com/news/121207hddvd/
01-06-2008, 11:22 PM
#122
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Originally Posted by NetEditor
While I'm no fan of Sony, you guys do realize that Microsoft was a big supporter of HD DVD. Either way you go, you have a big anti-consumer company backing one of the formats.
But the rumors (and I believe them) are MS is who shelled out the money to Paramount to go HD-DVD exclusive. NOT the HD-DVD camp.
Because MS wanted to draw out the war and let both formats kill off each other while it attempts to focus on directs downloads like with the xbox live.
Have you ever rented a hd movie off xbox live? Its only 720p but it looks pretty good overall.
I just dont like their rental terms.
01-06-2008, 11:24 PM
#123
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Originally Posted by NetEditor
Toshiba was supposed to debut the triple-layer HD DVD at CES, which is happening right now. Whoops. Warner's announcement pretty much quashed any talk of HD DVD at CES. So, "actually created" is a bit of a misnomer.
And it was unclear whether triple-layer was backward compatible.
http://www.hometheatermag.com/news/121207hddvd/
And it was unclear whether triple-layer was backward compatible.
http://www.hometheatermag.com/news/121207hddvd/
Well, Warner was supposed be a part of that conference. Hence the canceling of the whole thing.
01-06-2008, 11:25 PM
#124
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Originally Posted by Sarlacc
Yes.
But the rumors (and I believe them) are MS is who shelled out the money to Paramount to go HD-DVD exclusive. NOT the HD-DVD camp.
Because MS wanted to draw out the war and let both formats kill off each other while it attempts to focus on directs downloads like with the xbox live.
Have you ever rented a hd movie off xbox live? Its only 720p but it looks pretty good overall.
I just dont like their rental terms.
But the rumors (and I believe them) are MS is who shelled out the money to Paramount to go HD-DVD exclusive. NOT the HD-DVD camp.
Because MS wanted to draw out the war and let both formats kill off each other while it attempts to focus on directs downloads like with the xbox live.
Have you ever rented a hd movie off xbox live? Its only 720p but it looks pretty good overall.
I just dont like their rental terms.
01-06-2008, 11:32 PM
#125
I shoot people
Originally Posted by joerockt
lol, yea that is true. U571 is a great movie for demoing DTS. The scene where they are overtaking the ship is loud and intense.
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...e+theater+show
01-06-2008, 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Sarlacc
My HD-DVD drive on my XBOX360 does an amazing job upconverting through HDMI.
My Samsung BluRay player does an OK job, but its noticeably softer, the Xbox is very crisp.
My Samsung BluRay player does an OK job, but its noticeably softer, the Xbox is very crisp.
we had to return it because it wouldn't back up for some reason the tapes from when i was a kid, which is the entire reason why we got the damn thing.
01-06-2008, 11:37 PM
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I'm also waiting to see if Apple finally announces HD support at Macworld in a week.
They announced support for both, but have been on the bluray board of dir since 05 i think.
They announced support for both, but have been on the bluray board of dir since 05 i think.
01-06-2008, 11:38 PM
#128
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Originally Posted by Mizouse
i got my mom a toshiba vhs/dvd recorder that upconverts DVDs, all i have to say was that i wasnt too impressed.
we had to return it because it wouldn't back up for some reason the tapes from when i was a kid, which is the entire reason why we got the damn thing.
we had to return it because it wouldn't back up for some reason the tapes from when i was a kid, which is the entire reason why we got the damn thing.
01-06-2008, 11:40 PM
#129
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Originally Posted by Sarlacc
I'm also waiting to see if Apple finally announces HD support at Macworld in a week.
They announced support for both, but have been on the bluray board of dir since 05 i think.
They announced support for both, but have been on the bluray board of dir since 05 i think.
Article
01-06-2008, 11:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Sarlacc
Most of the cheap "upconverting" players are nothing but shite.
01-06-2008, 11:48 PM
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i dont believe til Jobs announces it. 
01-07-2008, 01:38 AM
#132
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Talk of HD-DVD not included in Gates hour long CES presentation.
01-07-2008, 06:24 AM
#133
The Creator
Originally Posted by joerockt
If I was, I wouldnt have bought a 3805. But I can guarantee if I played the movie U571 in DD then in DTS for anyone, they would notice the difference.
01-07-2008, 06:28 AM
#134
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Originally Posted by NetEditor
While I'm no fan of Sony, you guys do realize that Microsoft was a big supporter of HD DVD. Either way you go, you have a big anti-consumer company backing one of the formats.
That said, Microsoft isn't the driving force behind HD-DVD like Sony is with Blu-ray. They're simply a technology partner.
Microsoft could have delivered a potential death blow to the PS3, Sony, & Blu-ray early on by simply bundling HD-DVD with the Xbox rather than using the clunky external add-on. Why they didn't I'll never understand.
01-07-2008, 06:39 AM
#135
The Creator
Originally Posted by Sarlacc
Yes.
But the rumors (and I believe them) are MS is who shelled out the money to Paramount to go HD-DVD exclusive. NOT the HD-DVD camp.
Because MS wanted to draw out the war and let both formats kill off each other while it attempts to focus on directs downloads like with the xbox live.
Have you ever rented a hd movie off xbox live? Its only 720p but it looks pretty good overall.
I just dont like their rental terms.
But the rumors (and I believe them) are MS is who shelled out the money to Paramount to go HD-DVD exclusive. NOT the HD-DVD camp.
Because MS wanted to draw out the war and let both formats kill off each other while it attempts to focus on directs downloads like with the xbox live.
Have you ever rented a hd movie off xbox live? Its only 720p but it looks pretty good overall.
I just dont like their rental terms.
I don't believe that Microsoft was a big player in or major contributor to the pay off. There's dozens of things Microsoft could do that would be cheaper and more profitable for themselves than to pay off a studio to go HD-DVD. The rumors regarding Microsoft's role have never been substantiated.
If they had done it hoping it would dilute the high-def disc market to promote their online downloads, why didn't they just focus on making their downloads a real alternative? I.E., pay off some studios to start adding some content to XBL!
My Xbox was offline from about February of last year until I finally got it up and running again just a few weeks ago. I was pretty shocked when I spent sometime going through the marketplace to see that so little content had been added (to the little content that was already there) over nearly the last year.
More content is available to me over TimeWarner's HD On-Demand than through XBL.
01-07-2008, 10:48 AM
#136
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Originally Posted by soopa
Microsoft could have delivered a potential death blow to the PS3, Sony, & Blu-ray early on by simply bundling HD-DVD with the Xbox rather than using the clunky external add-on. Why they didn't I'll never understand.
I do agree that if it was there in each system or added somewhere along the way (like the xmas when ps3 came out, the # of hd dvd drives would be huge compared to Blu-Ray).
01-07-2008, 11:42 AM
#137
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Originally Posted by AdamNJ
I believe it's because they would have had to postpone the release of the 360 so they could get the drives in the system. I also read that MS didn't want consumers to pay for the drive being there if they weren't going to use it.
I do agree that if it was there in each system or added somewhere along the way (like the xmas when ps3 came out, the # of hd dvd drives would be huge compared to Blu-Ray).
I do agree that if it was there in each system or added somewhere along the way (like the xmas when ps3 came out, the # of hd dvd drives would be huge compared to Blu-Ray).
I bet you their costs for an internal HD-DVD drive from their partner Toshiba would have been cheaper per unit than that new digital scaler they put in. It could have been done.
01-07-2008, 11:48 AM
#138
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Originally Posted by soopa
Oh I know it couldn't have made it in before release, but they could have revised the system... or simply included it when they launched the Elite.
I bet you their costs for an internal HD-DVD drive from their partner Toshiba would have been cheaper per unit than that new digital scaler they put in. It could have been done.
I bet you their costs for an internal HD-DVD drive from their partner Toshiba would have been cheaper per unit than that new digital scaler they put in. It could have been done.
It kept the price down vs. the competition. Its a mental thing. Everyone bitched Sony out for forcing bluray on people and charging $600 bucks. And as a result the PS3 hasnt been the best seller in the world.
Where as its an easier pill for a consumer to swallow to see 399 for a game system and then 199 for an add on.
01-07-2008, 12:18 PM
#139
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Originally Posted by Sarlacc
Sure it could have, then they would have upped the price, too. This way they at least gave people a choice as to whether or not people wanted a next gen media player in their game machine.
It kept the price down vs. the competition. Its a mental thing. Everyone bitched Sony out for forcing bluray on people and charging $600 bucks. And as a result the PS3 hasnt been the best seller in the world.
Where as its an easier pill for a consumer to swallow to see 399 for a game system and then 199 for an add on.
It kept the price down vs. the competition. Its a mental thing. Everyone bitched Sony out for forcing bluray on people and charging $600 bucks. And as a result the PS3 hasnt been the best seller in the world.
Where as its an easier pill for a consumer to swallow to see 399 for a game system and then 199 for an add on.
The point of this discussion was that IMO Microsoft isn't the big supporter of HD-DVD that some seem to think... and that Microsoft wasn't a player in the supposed $150mill deal with Paramount.
If Microsoft was truly wanting HD-DVD to succeed they could have simply bundled the HD-DVD at their current price point... they have the profit margin in the 360 to do so... they have the partnership with Toshiba to receive low cost drives... if they did account for a chunk of that 150mill to Paramount they could have used that cash to bundle the drive.
01-07-2008, 12:23 PM
#140
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I dont think MS was a HUGE supporter of HD-DVD either, which is WHY they paid the money to paramount to go HD-DVD exclusive. They saw it as way to prolong the format war.
The longer the war, the more definite both sides lose. And while both sides are losing MS is in the background championing their DDL.
The longer the war, the more definite both sides lose. And while both sides are losing MS is in the background championing their DDL.
01-07-2008, 12:24 PM
#141
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The Elite was also 479 when it dropped, and then price has gone down since.
Just a small technicality
Just a small technicality
01-07-2008, 12:55 PM
#142
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Originally Posted by soopa
Microsoft could have delivered a potential death blow to the PS3, Sony, & Blu-ray early on by simply bundling HD-DVD with the Xbox rather than using the clunky external add-on. Why they didn't I'll never understand.
01-07-2008, 01:36 PM
#143
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Originally Posted by soopa
I don't understand why any mindless consumers are cheering a Blu-ray advance?
Blu-ray is as anti-consumer as they come.
I am and have always been dual-format capable, nonetheless, if I had to decide a winner it would be HD-DVD hands down.
Why would you support Blu-ray? The discs are more expensive, they don't have a combo (HD + SD) format, and the players are more expensive.
What advantages are there? None. There is extremely little difference between the two formats other than price, picture quality is identical as they're both encoding in the same format at the same bitrates. Beyond that, if you look at audio quality and/or special features the best bang for your buck... again... would be HD-DVD... which has produced more discs with lossless audio, cheaper players with support for lossless audio, and is to this day several steps ahead of Blu-ray in support for advanced features such as network capability. On top of all that, HD-DVD thus far has produced far less "coasters" ... discs in which bugs and confusion over a constantly changing standard have made them unplayable or crippled on many of the gen 1 & 2 devices.
HD-DVD is CLEARLY the format in the best interests of the consumer. Why do you think Blu-ray is gaining more corporate support...? $$$$$$ PROFITS $$$$$$
BLINDLY supporting Blu-ray simply because your PS3 plays them is simply short sighted and foolish. At the end of the day it's going to cost you far more to live in a Blu world than it would have to simply go get yourself a $89 HD-DVD player.
Blu-ray is as anti-consumer as they come.
I am and have always been dual-format capable, nonetheless, if I had to decide a winner it would be HD-DVD hands down.
Why would you support Blu-ray? The discs are more expensive, they don't have a combo (HD + SD) format, and the players are more expensive.
What advantages are there? None. There is extremely little difference between the two formats other than price, picture quality is identical as they're both encoding in the same format at the same bitrates. Beyond that, if you look at audio quality and/or special features the best bang for your buck... again... would be HD-DVD... which has produced more discs with lossless audio, cheaper players with support for lossless audio, and is to this day several steps ahead of Blu-ray in support for advanced features such as network capability. On top of all that, HD-DVD thus far has produced far less "coasters" ... discs in which bugs and confusion over a constantly changing standard have made them unplayable or crippled on many of the gen 1 & 2 devices.
HD-DVD is CLEARLY the format in the best interests of the consumer. Why do you think Blu-ray is gaining more corporate support...? $$$$$$ PROFITS $$$$$$
BLINDLY supporting Blu-ray simply because your PS3 plays them is simply short sighted and foolish. At the end of the day it's going to cost you far more to live in a Blu world than it would have to simply go get yourself a $89 HD-DVD player.
I don't see the point of a dual format disc (HD and SD). Nor have I met anyone who buys them. And it's been my experience that HD-DVD's are more expensive the BR, that's just from browing CC and BB yesterday.
the $89 HD-DVD player is junk. The cheap HD players aren't 1080P
I've got 2 buddies whose HD-DVD's are frozen after trying to do firmware updates.
I'm not saying one is better then the other......both have their issues.
I don't care who wins, yes I have a PS3, but I wouldn't object to getting an HD player. BUt I know I won't be doing the cheap ones.
01-07-2008, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by CLpower
the $89 HD-DVD player is junk (so is the 360 add on).
Correction.
The XBOX HD-DVD is NOT junk. Its 1080p via HDMI, and it works quite well and provides a great image. I have had mine since it first came out and I like it a lot. It also works GREAT as a upressing player, again via HDMI. Its WAY better at upressing then my newer Samsung BD1200 BR player.
Carry on...
01-07-2008, 01:49 PM
#145
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Originally Posted by Sarlacc
Correction.
The XBOX HD-DVD is NOT junk. Its 1080p via HDMI, and it works quite well and provides a great image. I have had mine since it first came out and I like it a lot. It also works GREAT as a upressing player, again via HDMI. Its WAY better at upressing then my newer Samsung BD1200 BR player.
Carry on...
The XBOX HD-DVD is NOT junk. Its 1080p via HDMI, and it works quite well and provides a great image. I have had mine since it first came out and I like it a lot. It also works GREAT as a upressing player, again via HDMI. Its WAY better at upressing then my newer Samsung BD1200 BR player.
Carry on...
01-07-2008, 01:52 PM
#146
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Originally Posted by joerockt
Honestly, you're the first person I've heard that said they like the performance of the xbox hd-dvd.
And it looks good.
01-07-2008, 01:55 PM
#148
I shoot people
I've had absolutely no problems with mine...
but then again, I've only watched 3 movies with it
but then again, I've only watched 3 movies with it
01-07-2008, 01:56 PM
#149
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Originally Posted by joerockt
Are you a videophile? 
01-07-2008, 01:58 PM
#150
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Yeap, I've read countless reviews that it was horrid, and my experience w/ my neighbors is sub-par.
"We've known that the Xbox 360 DVD player was asstastic for a while, but surely this latest fall update would have improved things at least a little. No such luck, as the player still only got a 40 out of 130 on the HQV DVD test—which is a non-improvement from before the update. Are things better on the HD side?
No. Unfortunately its HD DVD playback is so poor that it scored a 0 out of 100. This is because it's testing deinterlacing of content, and the player only does 1080i. In comparison, the PS3 gets an 88 out of 100 for the equivalent Blu-ray side. There is a bit of good news, however. The Xbox 360 plays back content better that's been properly flagged as movie content, such as actual movies you buy from the store. The HQV test disc isn't properly flagged, and doesn't trigger the player's deinterlacing. However, if your eyeballs tell you your 360 isn't doing a great job at playing back DVD content, it's probably time for a new DVD player."
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/xbox-360/...her-330916.php
"We've known that the Xbox 360 DVD player was asstastic for a while, but surely this latest fall update would have improved things at least a little. No such luck, as the player still only got a 40 out of 130 on the HQV DVD test—which is a non-improvement from before the update. Are things better on the HD side?
No. Unfortunately its HD DVD playback is so poor that it scored a 0 out of 100. This is because it's testing deinterlacing of content, and the player only does 1080i. In comparison, the PS3 gets an 88 out of 100 for the equivalent Blu-ray side. There is a bit of good news, however. The Xbox 360 plays back content better that's been properly flagged as movie content, such as actual movies you buy from the store. The HQV test disc isn't properly flagged, and doesn't trigger the player's deinterlacing. However, if your eyeballs tell you your 360 isn't doing a great job at playing back DVD content, it's probably time for a new DVD player."
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/xbox-360/...her-330916.php
01-07-2008, 02:01 PM
#151
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Then again, what do I know about anything. I like my new Apple TV and everyone says i'm a moron for it
01-07-2008, 02:02 PM
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01-07-2008, 02:13 PM
#154
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Originally Posted by CLpower
Yeap, I've read countless reviews that it was horrid, and my experience w/ my neighbors is sub-par.
"We've known that the Xbox 360 DVD player was asstastic for a while, but surely this latest fall update would have improved things at least a little. No such luck, as the player still only got a 40 out of 130 on the HQV DVD test—which is a non-improvement from before the update. Are things better on the HD side?
No. Unfortunately its HD DVD playback is so poor that it scored a 0 out of 100. This is because it's testing deinterlacing of content, and the player only does 1080i. In comparison, the PS3 gets an 88 out of 100 for the equivalent Blu-ray side. There is a bit of good news, however. The Xbox 360 plays back content better that's been properly flagged as movie content, such as actual movies you buy from the store. The HQV test disc isn't properly flagged, and doesn't trigger the player's deinterlacing. However, if your eyeballs tell you your 360 isn't doing a great job at playing back DVD content, it's probably time for a new DVD player."
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/xbox-360/...her-330916.php
"We've known that the Xbox 360 DVD player was asstastic for a while, but surely this latest fall update would have improved things at least a little. No such luck, as the player still only got a 40 out of 130 on the HQV DVD test—which is a non-improvement from before the update. Are things better on the HD side?
No. Unfortunately its HD DVD playback is so poor that it scored a 0 out of 100. This is because it's testing deinterlacing of content, and the player only does 1080i. In comparison, the PS3 gets an 88 out of 100 for the equivalent Blu-ray side. There is a bit of good news, however. The Xbox 360 plays back content better that's been properly flagged as movie content, such as actual movies you buy from the store. The HQV test disc isn't properly flagged, and doesn't trigger the player's deinterlacing. However, if your eyeballs tell you your 360 isn't doing a great job at playing back DVD content, it's probably time for a new DVD player."
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/xbox-360/...her-330916.php
1) I'm not going to put much stock into a review that says "asstastic"
2) it says the Xbox360 HD-DVD only does 1080i, which is NOT TRUE. I've said it 3 or 4 times already that it does 1080p with an HDMI cable. And the difference is noticeable.
01-07-2008, 02:16 PM
#155
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Originally Posted by joerockt
Then ignorance is bliss
My XBOX HD drive is putting out an image on par with my Samsung BR player.
And with the format war coming to close why would I want to shell out the cash for a higher end stand alone HD-DVD player?
My money is going to be better spent in a new receiver and speakers
01-07-2008, 02:17 PM
#156
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Originally Posted by CLpower
Then again, what do I know about anything. I like my new Apple TV and everyone says i'm a moron for it
01-07-2008, 02:19 PM
#157
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And Scott, you left this part out
Update: We spoke to an HD DVD professional, and he told us there were problems with this review. Apparently, the HQV discs are making players (even top of the line players) fail de-interlacing tests, which is pretty much all the disc does. What the reviewer should have done is test image quality, which would have made the Xbox 360 HD DVD player just about as good as the other standalone HD and BD players. The man we talked to didn't say much about DVD, however.
Last edited by Sarlacc; 01-07-2008 at 02:23 PM.
01-07-2008, 02:21 PM
#158
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Originally Posted by Sarlacc
Sure I could drop coin on what might be a better stand alone player. But The xbox player was the cheapest at the time, and coupled with a format war and the ability to rent the mvies at no extra cost from netflix its a no brainer. The quality jump i got when getting the Elite and going HDMI was very noticeable and great.
My XBOX HD drive is putting out an image on par with my Samsung BR player.
And with the format war coming to close why would I want to shell out the cash for a higher end stand alone HD-DVD player?
My money is going to be better spent in a new receiver and speakers
My XBOX HD drive is putting out an image on par with my Samsung BR player.
And with the format war coming to close why would I want to shell out the cash for a higher end stand alone HD-DVD player?
My money is going to be better spent in a new receiver and speakers
Anyway, I suck as I dont have either. I was going to buy a dual player, but it seems that the ones that are out suck.
But here is what I dont get. What is it going to take for Toshiba to concide defeat? As long as at least one movie co. sticks with them, it seems the hd dvd format could last indefinitely?
01-07-2008, 02:24 PM
#159
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Originally Posted by joerockt
Very good points. But a true videophile wouldn't care about all that
Anyway, I suck as I dont have either. I was going to buy a dual player, but it seems that the ones that are out suck.
But here is what I dont get. What is it going to take for Toshiba to concide defeat? As long as at least one movie co. sticks with them, it seems the hd dvd format could last indefinitely?
Anyway, I suck as I dont have either. I was going to buy a dual player, but it seems that the ones that are out suck.
But here is what I dont get. What is it going to take for Toshiba to concide defeat? As long as at least one movie co. sticks with them, it seems the hd dvd format could last indefinitely?
Yeah well, I'm not a videophile with endless cash flow either, or I would have already upgraded my TV after a year. Aint gonna happen.
And read what I bolded in that part of the article Scott didnt list. It corroborates what I've been saying the whole time.
I know what my eyes tell me
01-07-2008, 02:31 PM
#160
teh Senior Instigator
Join Date: Sep 2000
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Originally Posted by Sarlacc
Apple TV is a great idea. And has some cool uses. I just wont buy one until it can do HD content from apple.
ya, that would be real nice. I wouldn't have bought one on my own, but the wife got me one for xmas
They say a new firmware should be announced on the 15th. We'll see what it does. I'll be real pissed if it's a whole new unit as I JUST got this one for xmas!