NetEditor

People on AVS are saying that "Shoot Em Up" has a bit transfer rate above what HD DVD is capable of. And the specs shown for either format shows Blu-ray has a higher transfer rate (as mention above in fsttyms1's post).

The triple-layer HD DVD, as far as I know, is not backward compatible. That's big deal, rendering triple-layer discs difficult and potentially impossible to implement among the installed user base.

Concerning combo discs, I'm just using my own experience (the few glitches I've experienced on either format involved combo discs) and what I've read on AVS. Most of the HD DVD guys seem to hate combos. And combos are more expensive.

Michael Bay has been very adamant about his support for Blu-ray. Spielberg specifically has said that the movies he has directed are not part of the DreamWorks deal, and numerous times has had to quash rumors that his movies will be released on HD DVD. His lone hi-def release is on Blu-ray, too.

But as I said before, I'm not so much happy for Blu-ray as I'm happy that there looks to be one format, which I think is needed for HD to gain mass adoption.

ChodTheWacko

Kind of bittersweet for me.
I am also glad to see the war end.
I was an early adopter, so HD-DVD was a no-brainer.
It was a finished spec. Didn't have to worry about new movies being incompatble.

I have definitely had some lockups, although I'm not sure if that was because I was a first gen player or not. My player is really bad with regards to error recovery. I got an early toshiba DVD player and never had this much trouble with it.

I wonder if MI3 will be re-released on Blu-ray to include the features that are on the HD-DVD. My guess is probably not....... *sigh*

jupitersolo

Looks like I'll be sending back my HDDVD player and movies I got last week. Time to buy a PS3 with that money.

Sarlacc

What you guys have to remember is that this change isnt going to happen for another 6 months.

Which means Warner Bros still has a lot of HD-DVD movies coming out in the interim. They are honoring all deals and contracts until that time.

So, HD-DVD isnt quite dead yet. I'd say right now they are just about in the same place they were before the deal with paramount was made. We don't know what will happen in the next 6 months. HD-DVD may throw in the towel long before then, they may try and fight back. Who knows.

Until then I'm still bi-format.

NetEditor

What's interesting though is that a press release says Warner will release new HD DVDs in a "small window" after the Blu-ray and DVD versions. I'm sure Warner is going to do the absolute contractual minimum. While technically, they say they'll release HD DVDs until May, it'll be interesting to see how that plays out.

Sarlacc

Well, you have to figure how many future releases they already have printed up and ready to go vs. what's on schedule to made.

Lister00169

Well, I went Blu-Ray since my brother got me a PS3 for x-mas. I played 300 on it and I was blown away, even on my 720P LCD.

soopa

Any discrepency between blu-ray and hd-dvd's maximum bitrate is by specification only, there's no hardware or software limitation. There have been multiple HD-DVD titles whose average bitrates are beyond the theoretical limit.

Shoot Em Up is the latest major release from Warner and it's the first title they've released where they're expected to use a seperate encode for HD-DVD and Blu-ray. It's also, I believe, the first time they've delayed an HD-DVD release well past the Blu-ray release. Given the timing, I wouldn't doubt it if they're intentionally trying to sabotage their HD-DVD release to give their format decision some wings. There's no other explanation for what they've done.

It's next to impossible to find any worthwhile discussion between the Blu-ray and HD-DVD camps at AVS. The admins temporarily shut down all HD-DVD/Blu-ray discussion not long ago because there's just so much nonsense.

That said, from what I've read regarding this title (in the Blu-ray specific forum of course) people are clamoring over 40Mbps peaks using their PS3 bitrate meter which is notoriously inaccurate and also combines audio & video rates into one.

There have been titles which peaked over 50Mbps on Bluray and under 30Mbps on HD-DVD yet in side-by-side comparison reviews there have been no noticeable differences.

To my knowledge, there is only one Bluray title with an AVERAGE bitrate over 30Mbps and it's not encoded in VC-1 (which has higher quality at lower bitrates).

I'm all for theoretically higher ceilings, but if they don't add up to end results than I don't think they're worth paying for.

There's no information either way if it'll be backwards compatible or not, but most are expecting it will be. In any case, there's currently absolutely no need for a 50GB disc... even Bluray movies continue to be produced on 35GB discs.

If there were ever a need, HD-DVD would clearly have an answer.

I wasnt aware of any Bluray combo discs?

I havent had any glitches playing HD-DVD combos, and I havent read any major reports of glitches with combos... which is suprising given that almost all of HD-DVD's major titles are combo.

As for price, I havent noticed the combo discs to be more expensive than non-combo. If there is any trend for that it's likely because most of the combos are popular titles. Even if they are more expensive then non-combo HD-DVD's, they're still cheaper than the single format Blu-rays!

I know that several big name directors/producers have been picking sides, what I'm arguing is the comment that it's because of "superior Bluray features".

I would almost guarantee that there has been monetary compensation.

Remember, Paramount stated they went HD-DVD because of it's "superior features" only later for it to leak that they were paid $150mill to support the format. It goes both ways.

Not a one of these people chose one format over the other because it was better for the consumer. They're all going for what's best for their pockets.


I'm not so sure having one format at this juncture will prove to be of any benefit to the consumer. There's something to be said for competition, even if it slows adoption.

We're to the point where every major release is on an HD format, players are affordable, and media is as cheap as it would ever be if not for competition.

While I see some benefits to a 1 format world, I fear it as well... especially if Bluray is indeed the winner. Prepare for higher prices and lower quality.

Sarlacc

The media is not as cheap as it would ever be. Its getting cheaper every week as more players get into homes. More sales are happening.

Hell right now on BB.com you can get certain BR titles for 14.99 and not shitty ones at that.

I mean fuck, your last two sentences is the biggest load of shit in the world. its as if your trying to sound like a president concerned for his country. Even if BluRay wins we are still at the advent of downloads with netflix and itunes about the lead the charge. Especially if Netflix proposed set top box happens. That in itself will only push hard copy prices down. Lower quality dude, just get off your soap box now

soopa

Don't even start your shit. There's nothing personal here.

Lower quality indeed... a prime example is Shoot Em Up, which if not for the current state of competition would likely be a typical 25Mbps/avg title.

Nearly every Bluray price drop has been in response to an HD-DVD price drop. There's nothing to say prices will continue to decline without competition.

You do make a decent point in regards to downloadable media as competition for the hard formats... but were already there... and as of yet digital downloads have posed to be no solid alternative to tangible, collectible, hard media.

NetEditor

I'm quite sure that Warner does not want to spend money on a format they've publicly said they won't support after May.


Yeah, that was quite pathetic. I actually just finished writing a column about the whole format "war," and how emotional people get about it.


Quite true. That's why I've been monitoring that thread to see if someone can get a more accurate measurement. But it is interesting that Shoot Em Up is getting meter readings higher than seen previously.

Even though it's a very slim majority, most BDs are on BD50s now. And nearly ever new release is on BD50s. As far as triple layer HD DVDs, yeah, I'm not exactly sure about backward compatibility, but it could be a moot point anyway. Toshiba's presentation at CES earlier today barely mentions HD DVD at all. I think they see the writing on the wall. And there is a rumor Universal is implementing plans to go neutral, but that's merely a rumor at this point.

That was the point, I've only experienced glitches on combos, hence, only on my Toshiba HD DVD player.

For what I've seen, the most-expensive HD DVDs are $27.95 on Amazon, and they're almost always combos. And Blu-rays may have a higher MSRP, but Blu-ray has had far more BOGOs, etc. than HD DVD. But I'd say the cost to own either format is about the same. I've paid less for my HD DVD player but less for each Blu-ray movie. So when all is said and done, the cost savings on my HD DVD player was offset by the fact that HD DVD movies don't have as many sales. I usually don't buy any movie unless it's on sale or used.

I know a lot of people who are avoiding buy either format because of this war. Yeah, the war drove down player and movie prices much, much faster than if there were only one format in the beginning. But DVD matured being the only format (I don't count Divx), and Blu-ray, if it does win, still has to overcome DVD. HD is a very thin slice of the overall disc market.

If Blu-ray puts the prices too high, people won't buy. I don't think the normal schmoe on the street will pay twice as much for a BD movie or $500 for a player.

Sarlacc

There is nothing personal in these debates, there never has been. I just think youre trying to come off really silly with your last set of comments.

The price drop on players came due to hd-dvd, which was a good thing. But now the consumers have the players and want the movies. So, the movies now go on sale. And they'll keep dropping. VHS prices dropped, CD prices dropped, DVD prices dropped, BR will drop, too.

digital downloads are here, but they havent been brought the public in an easy to use way that will show them right on your TV. Netflix's set top box will provide that functionality, and you already have the name netflix attached who we all know, love and use. As well as itunes. I'll pay $3 bucks to rent a movie that i can watch on an airplane on my iphone.

There is plenty of competition abound to keep prices in check.

Mizouse

i know ive put my fair share of money into that.

AdamNJ

I'm another "sucker" who bought an HD DVD (only) player recently. As Soopa has already said HD DVD is better "for the consumer" compared to Blu Ray. I personally hate Sony as a company. As for the disc capacity, Blu-Ray has theoretically higher capacity (4 layer - 100 gig), but HD DVD has a higher actually created disc capacity (3 layer - 51 gig).

I hope Toshiba pulls something out of their ass asap or hd dvd really will be dead.

Sarlacc

It wont happen.

As much as I dont like Sony anymore either. They arent going to sit with yet another failed format on their hands. PS3 has been a big enough disappointment to them, they are going to push bluray ahead and push and push and push.

yunginTL

agreed, plus more manufacturers support bluray, just look at how many people make bluray players, of course its good for their business. At least the competition lasted this long to drive bluray player prices downward.

SupaRookie

downloading these HD contents takes a very long time with high speed internet!! Blu-Ray looks pretty good. I got both format. I just want one to win by the end of this year. I wonder what kind of announcement will happen at CES. My company didnt let me to go CES

Sarlacc

Well, put it this way. HD-DVD had a huge conference set up with Warner scheduled to speak...they canceled.

joerockt

Good man

zeroday

<< happy with my upconverting dvd player while all this BS plays out.

Sarlacc

My HD-DVD drive on my XBOX360 does an amazing job upconverting through HDMI.

My Samsung BluRay player does an OK job, but its noticeably softer, the Xbox is very crisp.

SupaRookie

The one thing I dont like about my PS3 is that it doesnt support DTS:MA (someone on AVS told me). I have the very original PS3 firmware because my brother loaded a linux OS on it so we can copy the movies. Now that I got a new receiver and sub, I wish it could do both TrueHD and DTS:MA.

Sarlacc

Unless youre running some seriously high quality audio components or have your set up in a proper type room, you'll never really notice the difference between regular DD and DTS.

is300eater

so, wait! The XBox 360's HD-DVD plays and upconverts regular DVD?!?! (I know, I know... welcome to 12 months ago ) Is this on ALL of them? Or only newer version? I got mine right when it came out...

Sarlacc

BTW.

Warner wanted to make a Hybrid disc that contained both HD-DVD and Bluray...again neither camp could agree.

Sarlacc

It ONLY upconverts through HDMI or VGA...but most TVs arent set up for the proper color space with the VGA cables.

This is a huge reason I upgraded to the Elite for HDMI. This was before HDMI trickled down to the Pro model as well.

is300eater

oh, okay... I'm on neither HDMI or VGA... nor do I have the Elite... Maybe when it breaks down... I'll get the Elite.

joerockt

I sure do. Running a Denon 3805 and Velodyne Deco satellites. Not top of the line stuff, but there is a definite difference in sound quality and surround presence.

Sarlacc

are you an audiophile?

I've noticed that if your ear isnt trained, many people wont really notice a huge difference.

SupaRookie

Yes, DD and DTS is not that noticeable. However, I purchase a $150 digital receiver when we bought a new TV because I didnt have the funds. Two weeks ago, my dad was complaining how shitty the receiver is and told me to get a new one. The Onkyo 875 is awesome; especially with a microvee 8". The difference in sound between what I had a year ago is very big. Now I gotta find some time to watch some of the movies over again. I would have bought a Denon 3808, but I didnt have anyway to demo it.

EDIT:

joerockt

If I was, I wouldnt have bought a 3805. But I can guarantee if I played the movie U571 in DD then in DTS for anyone, they would notice the difference.

is300eater

with my Onkyo receiver (800 series can't remember the exact model at th moment) you can definitely hear the difference if you have it in the "DTS" mode or not... and I'm not an audiophile

SupaRookie

This was the toy I had, Panasonic SA-XR55S:

jupitersolo

I had to use my xbox using component cables right before Christmas it was a much better picture than my upconverting DVD player.

Sarlacc

you got me wrong on that. Yes, you can tell a difference between DD and DTS. DTS is usually much louder

Im saying most people wont really be able to hear the difference in the newer HD audio formats.

Sarlacc

The xbox has a really good scaling chip in it.

joerockt

If you want to demo something, just purchase it from Crutchfield then send it back within 30 days for free. I've done that several times. No hassles.

joerockt

lol, yea that is true. U571 is a great movie for demoing DTS. The scene where they are overtaking the ship is loud and intense.

SupaRookie

Yea I know. I meant locally. My dad decided to get a new receiver like 2 or so days before Christmas. I will definitely look at Crutchfield if he gave me some more time.

EDIT: IS U571 on HD-DVD or Blu-Ray? If so, I need to rent it.

NetEditor

While I'm no fan of Sony, you guys do realize that Microsoft was a big supporter of HD DVD. Either way you go, you have a big anti-consumer company backing one of the formats.