Hey guys, been house shopping like crazy, and found a GREAT house, GREAT location. One of the few ones that is in an area with conventional bidding, not this sealed bid best and final nonsense. HOWEVER...there appears to be major pillowing on the upstairs ceilings, some upstairs walls, and some areas of the downstairs. I am contemplating whether or not it is even taking a full fledged tour during the open house (requires renting a car and driving out there). The problem, so I hear, is that the original plaster board was only 0.5" thick, nailed to the frame, and then the first skim coat never fully dried prior to the second coat. Over time, i.e. 90 years, it looks like this. (The house is 3,000 SF, brick exterior Giorgian colonial with a slate roof. The attic has no water leakage, and is dry and finished).

How major is this?? My contractor said either the following (although he is unsure)

1. Skim, and cross your fingers hoping it wouldnt crack down the road
2. Add on a layer of sheetrock to the ceilings and re-mold (not sure how this would work for the walls, or the common areas by the stairs)
3. Tear down the plaster board, and add new sheetrock. May also require fixing the insulation, as it could fall out of the ceiling.

I am planning to do some renovating during the first month of ownership prior to moving in. So this COULD be okay, assuming I address the $$ work during the attorney review. The asking price may have a good $50k-$75k of wiggle room between market value and said repairs.

The house was built in 1930, like just about every other house in the area. Actually, this is on the newer side. Every house I have seen has it's issues - knob and tube electricity, in-ground tanks, no A/C, etc. This house's particular problem is pillowing plaster board. Just trying to assess whether or not this is pencils down.

Thanks guys!

 

To do the job right you have to tear out all the plaster and lath and re insulate and drywall everything.


If you don`t do anything it might not get worse or it might.


I have a 1918 post-colonial and also have plaster and lath.


The cheapest fix would be to put a skim coat over all the areas that look like they are sagging, repaint and hope that it doesn`t sink any further.


But, you or the contractor can make that determination.

 

Nice house BTW. Got a pic from the outside?

 

I'd take a house with bad plaster over structural issues any day.. How's the rest of the bones in the house? Electrical , plumbing, etc?

 

 

You could see why we are all over this house albeit the repairs. Although I'm super sensitive to the taxes. 3000 SF good schools in NJ are low 20s. You don't even want to sneeze on the house let alone do a major repair. Need to circle back to the tax assessor to make sure this is a repair and not a true improvement.

Realistically what do you think the cost is to demo drywall paint and do molding in 4 bedrooms and maybe the foyer downstairs? Figure 1500 SF of ceilings? Need to discuss broad range contingencies tomorrow with little time for contractor bids

 

I actually like the look...
Love the house overall too, good luck!
NO pencils down!

 

Needs a new roof within the next 5 yrs. thinking asphalt carriage house style cost wise. Windows are original but they have storm windows for extra insulation. All bathrooms need rehab but kitchen is done. Flagstone patio done. Central AC installed. Just need some cosmetics including potentially demoing and Sheetrocking the upstairs.

 

You like the look of sagged ceiling tiles? Like it's authentic design??

 

Honestly, yes I do. They're pretty symmetrical and kinda almost tells a story about the age of the house and the way things used to be built. Nowadays, most new construction looks the same...perfect drywall. I think it adds character.

That's a gorgeous house.

 

Plaster sucks! I would either put sheetrock over the plaster or replace all the plaster to sheetrock but the nice thing you don't have to do it all at one time, do one room at a time and it won't be that bad.

Make sure the plumbing and electric has been updated because that will be the biggest pain to redo / fix.

House is gorgeous!!

 

You can still knock down the plaster and put a thicker coat of plaster over.


Unless you have a trusted person to do the job it`s important to get at least 5 estimates and the cheapest estimate isn`t always the best one.


Also, when buying a new older house always get as much done before you move in because once you settle in you would rather enjoy the house then work on it.

 

i love the sound insulation that plaster provides... my current home is all plaster and it is amazing how little sound travel between the walls... my cousin who had a brand new house build with sheetrock can literally hear a light switch downstairs flip on and off from his master bedroom upstairs... i would be hesitant to rip everything out unless you had a structural issue you had to address with the timber frame or needed to reinsulate... being that it is on the ceiling, unless you plan on opening up walls to run new lighting or in ceiling speakers, i wouldn't touch it...

if it were me, i would just lay some 3/8 or 1/2" sheet rock on top of the plaster and call it a day... you won't miss a half inch off the ceiling... and if you have to do the walls, it isn't much to pull trim either...

you could try the skim coat and pray but if it does fail after you have moved in, now you have to deal with a repair while you are living there... now that you haven't moved in yet it better to get it done and the mudding and sanding and paint can happen before you move all your crap in... (what Nicks said)

i know i spoke to you about the area you were looking at in another thread... if i live close by and you want a different set of eyes to look at it and i'm free, i can swing by... let me know...

 

Wood windows with storms still suck in freezing weather... if you can update them to the newer stuff, you would be surprised how much less the heat runs in the house...

i did the windows last summer and the A/C bill dropped as well...

 

Thanks, Kamlung. I am just going to email some photos out to contractors with the three options. I want to pass this onto the seller to the greatest extent, of course. but let's see where that goes.

I stopped looking in Montclair. The opening of this season has proven chaotic. They do this sealed bid process with teaser asking prices, and then things sell for $100-200k over, at least the turn-key stuff thats walking distance to one of the train stations. Sunday open house. bids due at noon monday. Each turn-key house gets 10+ offers in half a business day, and the house sells for 15-20% over the ask. it's insane. normal practice was 5-10% over the teaser ask, which people factored into the game, but now that the area is so hot, its at a 5-10% premium...on top of the original 10% teaser factor.

There is no transparency, and ppl just bid to their personal max comfort level. it's dangerous. i played the game at first. 9% over, came in 8th of 10. then the next house i went 17% over telling myself i never want to do this again. i came in 3rd of 15. problem is, they bring more ppl to the table to write an offer. the larger sample set, the more of a chance you have a guy whose wife is in her third trimester, or another guy that needs to start his job, or another guy that lost his last 5 bids...and boom, things start to creep up real fast. also, you have little control over what house you want. its a group on 50 ppl that track the town and bid on everything until they respectively hit on something, or breakdown and pay WAY too much.

Needless to say, I've moved on to the surrounding area with a more conventional system.

 

good luck... like i mentioned in your other thread... come out to Marvelous Morris county... i love it here, the taxes are great and half of what i paid/you will pay in Essex...

hope the seller can throw you a bone on negotiating the price, but remember they aren't obligated to address anything cosmetic... and unless you can prove that it is structural the deal can fall through... honestly, 1500 sq ft of sheet rock shouldn't cost you that much... if you are already getting a great deal on the house, try but it may not be a dealbreaker for you...

once you and the mrs get settled out here, let me know and we will have you over... sounds like you will be somewhat in the neighborhood..

 

thanks for the offer! will keep you posted

I was quoted the following for immediate work; this is VERY rough. Just basic guidance.

$10-15k – Sheetrock over 4 bedroom ceilings (no plaster demo), paint, install new picture frame molding. No walls.
$10k – Master bath – replace all floor/wall tiling and install standalone vanity, keep tub, keep toilet
$10k – Upstairs full bath - replace all floor/wall tiling and install standalone vanity, keep tub, keep toilet
$3k – Powder room – replace all floor/wall tiling and install standalone vanity
Basic interior paint here and there – I could do that, and that’s the same on any house really

 

my wife and i just bought a house in monroe back in october. older house from the 1930s which also had similar cosmetic issues. we did get a good price on the house due to some repairs it needed but to me i feel we got a great deal.

so far between myself, my dad, and my father in law we have replaced all walls in the front porch, living/dining room and 2 bedroom upstairs. exterior walls of all rooms mentioned have all been insulated and new ceilings as well in all except for front porch. all work has been spread out over the last 6 months.

 

Turned out to be more than just ceilings. I've never seen anything like this in my life. The whole house would need to be stripped to the frames. It also needed a new slate roof and a new roof on the detached 2 car garage. Should be pushing 200k in repairs. It's in an amazing area. Curious to know how this turns out. Either a contractor will buy it, or they demolish the house.

 

 

200K? Wow...
I can't imagine tearing it down...it's got pillow walls!!

 

I'm throwing out 200k. New slate roof is 50, garage new roof plus slate is probably 15 to 20. Then you need to gut plaster and lathe on every ceiling and wall surface of a 2700 SF home, reinsulate, sheetrock, remold and paint. Just gutting one ceiling of plaster is a PITA, let's alone every wall and ceiling in 8 rooms, all common areas, bathrooms and closets. It's gotta be closing in on 200k.

 

Or just enjoy your Charmin house!

 

It's the Stay-Puft Marshmallow House!

From what I can find on the internet, that's a result of using gypsum lath -- essentially thin drywall under the plaster. The gypsum lath seems to postdate the age of the house (everything I've seen with plaster/lath around here is wood lath), so all that pillowing could be a renovation gone wrong.

I'd walk away because if they messed up what you can see, I'd be even more concerned about what I can't see.

It's too bad, because the woodwork in that place is freaking gorgeous.

 

Yeah it's really unfortunate. It's at the end of a cul de sac in between a brook and a trail head to a nature preserve. the surrounding houses are 1930s estate like Tudors. Oh and the neighbor is a former top 15 divorcee super model. This was the first listing in the neighborhood in years that didn't have a 7 figure price tag. I was scratching my head as to how I could afford to live in this neighborhood until I saw the inside of the house. Lol. Nothing added up until that point. Everything is for a reason I guess.

They'd be better off demolishing the house and starting from scratch given the land value and location.

 

i think you are correct with the assumption of the postdated renovation... my house was built in the mid 50's and uses plaster board sheets (8" wide) and then plaster on top... everything before that used traditional lath & plaster (my parent's house was built in the 20's/30's)... if i had to guess, they thought that by using plaster boards, they could go thin on the plaster... when in fact this isn't like joint compound and drywall... what blows my mind and i can't even guess how it was caused is that every panel is evenly pushed from the center but no major cracks at the seams... it's almost like there was air pushing from behind the panel... that's really interesting...

all well onto the next... don't worry, the house will come, it just takes patience... we searched for almost 2 yrs and looked at over 100 houses before we found the one we wanted...

 

if a flipper came in there... they would most likely replace the roof and then just skim the plaster even enough for paint and be done... it does look truly cosmetic...

 

If it's a house in a neighborhood that you should not be able to afford, and it turns out to be JUST visual (and you'll probably be able to negotiate price even more)...I personally would not walk away from that. It's livable, it's fine, it's just weird. Get it bought then sort it out over time.

The whole creek and trailhead and supermodel...yeah, I'd wanna live there.

 

I personally couldn't live in a house like that, I agree the walls and ceilings need to be redone and that is a lot of work.

 

i'm really confused you would post that because earlier you suggested the below...

 

^^^this... what's the saying? buy the cheapest house in the neighborhood... especially if it is a million dollar neighborhood... if you can get the house cheap enough (have a VERY thorough inspection to try and get some more repair credits) not considering the house would be foolish...

 

i dont know WHAT happened there. You couldnt plaster over it, as the bulges in some areas must be a good 4" from the wall. The whole house needs to be taken to the frames, and 10s of thousands of pounds of plaster and wood need to be removed from the home. Remember, its the wood slats that are buckling, not the plaster. Plus, you need to determine that its not water damage or mold. What a nightmare. Not for me, no thank you.

The slate roof needs to be replaced immediately. And the slate roof on the detached garage has holes in it covered by a tarp, so that another new roof and structuring on the garage.

The house was listed in the high 8s, and needs $200k worth of work day 1, so let's not get too ahead of ourselves in this being a steal to get into a great neighborhood. Also, all three bathrooms are 50 years old, and the windows are 90 years old. I wouldnt offer a penny over 6 for that, given the risk associated with the repairs. The house will likely sit for months, and then some contractor or developer is going to take it down at that price point...maybe even lower.

 

have you tried submitting an offer for 6?

 

we're not getting ahead of ourselves, you yourself made it sound like something you could only dream of owning in this area.

but why dream, you could own it.

We took a huge gamble and bought a house that should have gone for 150K more than we paid because it was a sketchy ass auction foreclosure site. In the end, we have a great house in a great neighborhood and after some elbow grease and a bit of cash, it's ours and super nice. We love it.

Just my opinion...I'm not lazy and I have a pretty good eye for potential. I'm not saying it'll be easy, or cheap, or worth it TO YOU. But from what you've described...I don't think I'd walk so easily.

 

pretty true. Sorry for misleading. My wife wants nothing to do with this project. I dont really either.

 

The prices you got to fix the problem was really high in my opinion. To do it yourself absolutely no way to big of a job. At the end of the day I think you made a good decision.

 

I have some experience with doing drywall (working on my house and helping friends out) and I would walk away from this house as well. If it was just the ceiling it ain't that bad, you could just do it one room at a time but this house every wall needs to be redone and your talking some serious work.