Calf mass
10-25-2005, 07:08 PM
#1
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Calf mass
I've found that this is an incredibly difficult place to build mass. Right now my calves are 15", and I want them to be 18" or so. I know they need to be shocked with a lot of weight, but I find my joints giving out before my calves get tired. Is there anything I can do that puts minimal pressure on my knee joints? I've tried the standing calf raise machine, but the pads dig into my shoulders, and any creases in the vinyl makes my shoulders bloody. While doing seated raises, the top of my leg feels the same bloody effect.
10-25-2005, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by youngTL
I've found that this is an incredibly difficult place to build mass. Right now my calves are 15", and I want them to be 18" or so. I know they need to be shocked with a lot of weight, but I find my joints giving out before my calves get tired. Is there anything I can do that puts minimal pressure on my knee joints? I've tried the standing calf raise machine, but the pads dig into my shoulders, and any creases in the vinyl makes my shoulders bloody. While doing seated raises, the top of my leg feels the same bloody effect.
Yes. Do one-leg standing calf raises using the SMITH press WITH the STEP. So that half of your foot is on top of the STEP and half off.
Here is what I do:
With both legs working: With the STEP, I start with 2 plates and 12 reps (you have to stop before the calves start burning - the burning feeling is counterproductive to growing muscle).
2 to 2.5 minute break.
Then 3 plates and another 10-12 reps.
2 to 2.5 minute break.
Then 3.5 plates and 6 reps, still two legs.
3 to 3.5 min break
Now, one leg and 1.5 plates and 1-3 reps (no more than 10 second break when alternating legs).
3-4 min break.
Now it's the muscle growing sets (overload):
2.25 to 2.5 plates, one leg and 6 reps each (no more than 10 second break when alternating legs). Always go all the way down, never sacrifice ROM.
Two overload sets will do.
Now do the same on the seated calf raise machine with no warmup sets (since your calves are already warmed up, to say the least.)
I stopped doing calves for about 2 months and they have gotten a lot smaller. IF my eye can tell, that means there is significant muscle loss. It's amazing how fast they grow and also go into atrophy (in my case). Same with my legs.
Let me clarify why I do the above:
It is very difficult to overload calves. Mostly because of their location and overall output (that's why Arnold was doing donkey raises, but not all of us have 3 people to put on top of our lower backs, etc, etc.). You have to put way too much weight on your spine in order to properly overload the calves and it's not good (one of the very few times that you will "hear" me saying a lot of weight is not good - yes there is such a thing).
Having said that, let me add that ONE LIMB exercises are not preferred to two limb exercises. Why? Because intensity is kept at higher levels when you move both legs/hands, etc.
So this last point is agains what we're doing above. But the above is what I found being the best balance between overloading your calves well, while not jeopardizing your spinal integrity (and the other issues you described like bloody shoulders, etc.).
10-26-2005, 01:56 AM
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Originally Posted by gavriil
Yes. Do one-leg standing calf raises using the SMITH press WITH the STEP. So that half of your foot is on top of the STEP and half off.
Here is what I do:
With both legs working: With the STEP, I start with 2 plates and 12 reps (you have to stop before the calves start burning - the burning feeling is counterproductive to growing muscle).
2 to 2.5 minute break.
Then 3 plates and another 10-12 reps.
2 to 2.5 minute break.
Then 3.5 plates and 6 reps, still two legs.
3 to 3.5 min break
Now, one leg and 1.5 plates and 1-3 reps (no more than 10 second break when alternating legs).
3-4 min break.
Now it's the muscle growing sets (overload):
2.25 to 2.5 plates, one leg and 6 reps each (no more than 10 second break when alternating legs). Always go all the way down, never sacrifice ROM.
Two overload sets will do.
Now do the same on the seated calf raise machine with no warmup sets (since your calves are already warmed up, to say the least.)
I stopped doing calves for about 2 months and they have gotten a lot smaller. IF my eye can tell, that means there is significant muscle loss. It's amazing how fast they grow and also go into atrophy (in my case). Same with my legs.
Let me clarify why I do the above:
It is very difficult to overload calves. Mostly because of their location and overall output (that's why Arnold was doing donkey raises, but not all of us have 3 people to put on top of our lower backs, etc, etc.). You have to put way too much weight on your spine in order to properly overload the calves and it's not good (one of the very few times that you will "hear" me saying a lot of weight is not good - yes there is such a thing).
Having said that, let me add that ONE LIMB exercises are not preferred to two limb exercises. Why? Because intensity is kept at higher levels when you move both legs/hands, etc.
So this last point is agains what we're doing above. But the above is what I found being the best balance between overloading your calves well, while not jeopardizing your spinal integrity (and the other issues you described like bloody shoulders, etc.).
Here is what I do:
With both legs working: With the STEP, I start with 2 plates and 12 reps (you have to stop before the calves start burning - the burning feeling is counterproductive to growing muscle).
2 to 2.5 minute break.
Then 3 plates and another 10-12 reps.
2 to 2.5 minute break.
Then 3.5 plates and 6 reps, still two legs.
3 to 3.5 min break
Now, one leg and 1.5 plates and 1-3 reps (no more than 10 second break when alternating legs).
3-4 min break.
Now it's the muscle growing sets (overload):
2.25 to 2.5 plates, one leg and 6 reps each (no more than 10 second break when alternating legs). Always go all the way down, never sacrifice ROM.
Two overload sets will do.
Now do the same on the seated calf raise machine with no warmup sets (since your calves are already warmed up, to say the least.)
I stopped doing calves for about 2 months and they have gotten a lot smaller. IF my eye can tell, that means there is significant muscle loss. It's amazing how fast they grow and also go into atrophy (in my case). Same with my legs.
Let me clarify why I do the above:
It is very difficult to overload calves. Mostly because of their location and overall output (that's why Arnold was doing donkey raises, but not all of us have 3 people to put on top of our lower backs, etc, etc.). You have to put way too much weight on your spine in order to properly overload the calves and it's not good (one of the very few times that you will "hear" me saying a lot of weight is not good - yes there is such a thing).
Having said that, let me add that ONE LIMB exercises are not preferred to two limb exercises. Why? Because intensity is kept at higher levels when you move both legs/hands, etc.
So this last point is agains what we're doing above. But the above is what I found being the best balance between overloading your calves well, while not jeopardizing your spinal integrity (and the other issues you described like bloody shoulders, etc.).
Thanks, I'll try this out at the gym on Friday!
10-26-2005, 03:43 PM
#4
Drifting
You can do them at your house, just stand on the edge of a step with most of your foot hanging off the edge. Raise up on your toes as far as you can and hold for a second. Do them on each leg separately, they will burn.
10-26-2005, 03:57 PM
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Have you tried the seated calf raise machine? You know, where you load the plates like you would a bar, then the pad goes right on top of your knees.
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10-26-2005, 06:04 PM
#8
I
Originally Posted by gavriil
With both legs working: With the STEP, I start with 2 plates and 12 reps (you have to stop before the calves start burning - the burning feeling is counterproductive to growing muscle)..
10-26-2005, 09:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Rock2534
You can do them at your house, just stand on the edge of a step with most of your foot hanging off the edge. Raise up on your toes as far as you can and hold for a second. Do them on each leg separately, they will burn.
2. Burning is counter-productive to muscle growth
Because of the above reasons, significant muscle mass growth will not occur following your methods above.
10-26-2005, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by FastAcura
DIs this the case for every muscle group or calfes only?
10-26-2005, 11:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Rock2534
You can do them at your house, just stand on the edge of a step with most of your foot hanging off the edge. Raise up on your toes as far as you can and hold for a second. Do them on each leg separately, they will burn.
10-27-2005, 07:30 AM
#15
Drifting
Originally Posted by gavriil
1. The above does not include overload
2. Burning is counter-productive to muscle growth
Because of the above reasons, significant muscle mass growth will not occur following your methods above.
2. Burning is counter-productive to muscle growth
Because of the above reasons, significant muscle mass growth will not occur following your methods above.
10-27-2005, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Nicky Pass
I have big calves and I don't really work them...its genetics.
No chicken legs here.
But in addition, I DO a lot of hiking, so that helps.
10-27-2005, 08:12 AM
#17
I
Originally Posted by Ken1997TL
No chicken legs here.
But in addition, I DO a lot of hiking, so that helps.
Those guys at the tour de france have HUGE calfes. (especially Ullrich)
10-27-2005, 09:36 AM
#18
Originally Posted by Rock2534
You can do them at your house, just stand on the edge of a step with most of your foot hanging off the edge. Raise up on your toes as far as you can and hold for a second. Do them on each leg separately, they will burn.
This is really good advice. I would try this Young
10-27-2005, 09:38 AM
#19
Originally Posted by youngTL
Uhhh no, there's not enough weight there to accomplish any growth!
Thats not true. You dont just need weight to get the growth. You should mix it up. I guarantee you will feel much more of a burn doing what he said (going to fatigue), then putting on tons of weight and only doing 10 reps of a seated raise.
Please give it a try and tell me what u think.
10-27-2005, 09:40 AM
#20
Originally Posted by gavriil
1. The above does not include overload
2. Burning is counter-productive to muscle growth
Because of the above reasons, significant muscle mass growth will not occur following your methods above.
2. Burning is counter-productive to muscle growth
Because of the above reasons, significant muscle mass growth will not occur following your methods above.
gav you are right here but I think the calf is a little different. Calves are very hard to add muscle too and a lot of people really cannot add as much size as other muscles. I think if this is the case with Young then he should maybe focus on leaning out his calf area to make the muscles "appear" larger- more defined.
10-27-2005, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Rock2534
Thats cool, i will side with your knowledge. I thought i would mention from past experience. I did them along with other exercises when i was way back in high school (long time ago) to help my jumping since i played a lot of basketball. 12 weeks and my calves and quads were noticeably bigger and stronger (and still are to this day). Getting up to the rim at 5'6" was good for a white kid
Calves are way overrated in the role they play into vertical leaping (especially two legged leaping). Even leaping with an approach.
When I was into the vball world, more than I am now, there was the myth of "the spring is in the calves". Not true. Jumping vertically engages an extremely large number of muscles, including some unlikely candidates, like obliques and traps (yes sir, hard to believe but it's true).
That's not to suggest that calves do not engage when one leaps upwards.
10-27-2005, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by stphy32
gav you are right here but I think the calf is a little different.
Originally Posted by stphy32
Calves are very hard to add muscle too and a lot of people really cannot add as much size as other muscles.
As I explained before, calves are hard to overload, due to their location in the body which raises balance issues. THAT IS WHY they are hard to make them grow. Because few people overload them right, fewer people even target them (different matter).
My calves react very very well (as far as growth) to the overload of the SMITH with the combination of the STEP. I wish I could do two-limb exercises, but my spine cant take it.
10-28-2005, 08:22 AM
#23
Drifting
Originally Posted by gavriil
Nice but a word of advice:
Calves are way overrated in the role they play into vertical leaping (especially two legged leaping). Even leaping with an approach.
When I was into the vball world, more than I am now, there was the myth of "the spring is in the calves". Not true. Jumping vertically engages an extremely large number of muscles, including some unlikely candidates, like obliques and traps (yes sir, hard to believe but it's true).
That's not to suggest that calves do not engage when one leaps upwards.
Calves are way overrated in the role they play into vertical leaping (especially two legged leaping). Even leaping with an approach.
When I was into the vball world, more than I am now, there was the myth of "the spring is in the calves". Not true. Jumping vertically engages an extremely large number of muscles, including some unlikely candidates, like obliques and traps (yes sir, hard to believe but it's true).
That's not to suggest that calves do not engage when one leaps upwards.
10-28-2005, 08:52 AM
#24
I
Originally Posted by gavriil
This is a misconception about calves and sometimes abs are also included and perceived as "different". Skeletal muscle reacts the same exact way to growth stimuli. Overload and intensity is what grows skeletal muscle, with regard to stimulation.
This is usually the reasoning people who believe into the above notion ("calf is a little different") use to justify the notion.
As I explained before, calves are hard to overload, due to their location in the body which raises balance issues. THAT IS WHY they are hard to make them grow. Because few people overload them right, fewer people even target them (different matter).
My calves react very very well (as far as growth) to the overload of the SMITH with the combination of the STEP. I wish I could do two-limb exercises, but my spine cant take it.
This is usually the reasoning people who believe into the above notion ("calf is a little different") use to justify the notion.
As I explained before, calves are hard to overload, due to their location in the body which raises balance issues. THAT IS WHY they are hard to make them grow. Because few people overload them right, fewer people even target them (different matter).
My calves react very very well (as far as growth) to the overload of the SMITH with the combination of the STEP. I wish I could do two-limb exercises, but my spine cant take it.
10-28-2005, 09:48 AM
#25
Originally Posted by gavriil
This is a misconception about calves and sometimes abs are also included and perceived as "different". Skeletal muscle reacts the same exact way to growth stimuli. Overload and intensity is what grows skeletal muscle, with regard to stimulation.
This is usually the reasoning people who believe into the above notion ("calf is a little different") use to justify the notion.
As I explained before, calves are hard to overload, due to their location in the body which raises balance issues. THAT IS WHY they are hard to make them grow. Because few people overload them right, fewer people even target them (different matter).
My calves react very very well (as far as growth) to the overload of the SMITH with the combination of the STEP. I wish I could do two-limb exercises, but my spine cant take it.
This is usually the reasoning people who believe into the above notion ("calf is a little different") use to justify the notion.
As I explained before, calves are hard to overload, due to their location in the body which raises balance issues. THAT IS WHY they are hard to make them grow. Because few people overload them right, fewer people even target them (different matter).
My calves react very very well (as far as growth) to the overload of the SMITH with the combination of the STEP. I wish I could do two-limb exercises, but my spine cant take it.
Shocking is the best and I think people just want to add so much weight and "get big" and they forget that variey is what is key
10-28-2005, 10:41 PM
#26
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Originally Posted by stphy32
gav you are right here but I think the calf is a little different. Calves are very hard to add muscle too and a lot of people really cannot add as much size as other muscles. I think if this is the case with Young then he should maybe focus on leaning out his calf area to make the muscles "appear" larger- more defined.
This is unflexed:
There's nothing I can do w.r.t. fat loss, so the only way to go is up. I tried gav's idea at the gym on Thursday. I don't know why people think that these muscles and the abs are different. They may be harder to overload like gav said, but that's the only issue. I'm sticking with his idea of more weight on a single leg. As for variety, I'll just change up the type of exercise.
10-29-2005, 02:16 AM
#28
Originally Posted by youngTL
I don't have any fat there. Things are ripped as it is.
This is unflexed:
There's nothing I can do w.r.t. fat loss, so the only way to go is up. I tried gav's idea at the gym on Thursday. I don't know why people think that these muscles and the abs are different. They may be harder to overload like gav said, but that's the only issue. I'm sticking with his idea of more weight on a single leg. As for variety, I'll just change up the type of exercise.
This is unflexed:
There's nothing I can do w.r.t. fat loss, so the only way to go is up. I tried gav's idea at the gym on Thursday. I don't know why people think that these muscles and the abs are different. They may be harder to overload like gav said, but that's the only issue. I'm sticking with his idea of more weight on a single leg. As for variety, I'll just change up the type of exercise.
At this point I would also try to do his (gavriil) overloading advice. Single leg overload is good. I would definitely recommend starting with your weaker leg first to make sure u dont do more reps on the stronger leg and continue to make them uneven. Almost everyone has one side of their body that is stronger.
When I played badminton a lot, my right forearm got about 2x the size of my left, it was pretty gross. lol.
Also my right abdominals and back are more defined from all the leaning and rotating I would do. It sucks and it has not been fun trying to even out my left.
Side note- How is your diet? What are you eating to help you gain more mass?
10-29-2005, 04:29 AM
#29
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Originally Posted by stphy32
Hey yes its obvious that your fortunate to be lean already
At this point I would also try to do his (gavriil) overloading advice. Single leg overload is good. I would definitely recommend starting with your weaker leg first to make sure u dont do more reps on the stronger leg and continue to make them uneven. Almost everyone has one side of their body that is stronger.
When I played badminton a lot, my right forearm got about 2x the size of my left, it was pretty gross. lol.
Also my right abdominals and back are more defined from all the leaning and rotating I would do. It sucks and it has not been fun trying to even out my left.
Side note- How is your diet? What are you eating to help you gain more mass?
At this point I would also try to do his (gavriil) overloading advice. Single leg overload is good. I would definitely recommend starting with your weaker leg first to make sure u dont do more reps on the stronger leg and continue to make them uneven. Almost everyone has one side of their body that is stronger.
When I played badminton a lot, my right forearm got about 2x the size of my left, it was pretty gross. lol.
Also my right abdominals and back are more defined from all the leaning and rotating I would do. It sucks and it has not been fun trying to even out my left.
Side note- How is your diet? What are you eating to help you gain more mass?
10-29-2005, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by stphy32
I said they were hard as well. They are a muscle just like the abdominals which you are right people tend to think "more reps" are better. Not always necessarily true. When I was lifting a lot, at first I would do the typical hundreds of crunchies, etc. and just had a flat stomach. Last year when I was doing weighted abdominal exercises with practically every exercise I seriously had a 6 pack. But once in awhile I ended up going back and doing hundreds to shock my muscles.
Shocking is the best and I think people just want to add so much weight and "get big" and they forget that variey is what is key
Shocking is the best and I think people just want to add so much weight and "get big" and they forget that variey is what is key
The notion of "shocking" is also a myth. But I will wait until soopa lifts the ban on you to discuss it
10-29-2005, 07:46 PM
#31
Go Giants
Originally Posted by Nicky Pass
I have big calves and I don't really work them...its genetics.
Here is my leg. On the first day of my vacation in Florida, I jumped down a waterslide while drunk and banged my foot on the slide, hence the black and blue marks. Hurts like a bitch...
10-30-2005, 01:11 PM
#32
Originally Posted by gavriil
The notion of "shocking" is also a myth. But I will wait until soopa lifts the ban on you to discuss it
LOL. How do you know hes going to do that??
I still have until tomorrow to discuss
I dont think shocking is a myth. When I say shocking, I mean that if one stays doing the same thing, take for instance, standing dumbell bicep curls, all the time for a bicep movement- it would be much more beneficial, to "shock" or possibly add more growth, use different muscle fibers, and do for example, hammer curls.
Or even take a long distance runner, doing sprints sometimes. You use different muscle fibers and it can add size, power, strength whichever you decide to focus on to your body.
So now, your
10-30-2005, 01:14 PM
#33
Originally Posted by Whiskers
Here is my leg. On the first day of my vacation in Florida, I jumped down a waterslide while drunk and banged my foot on the slide, hence the black and blue marks. Hurts like a bitch...
OUCH!Sorry to see that
10-30-2005, 06:00 PM
#34
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Originally Posted by Whiskers
Here is my leg. On the first day of my vacation in Florida, I jumped down a waterslide while drunk and banged my foot on the slide, hence the black and blue marks. Hurts like a bitch...
10-30-2005, 06:59 PM
#35
Go Giants
Originally Posted by youngTL
It looks like carrying around that extra mass before you lost the fat built up some muscles.
10-30-2005, 07:00 PM
#36
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Originally Posted by stphy32
LOL. How do you know hes going to do that??
I still have until tomorrow to discuss
I dont think shocking is a myth. When I say shocking, I mean that if one stays doing the same thing, take for instance, standing dumbell bicep curls, all the time for a bicep movement- it would be much more beneficial, to "shock" or possibly add more growth, use different muscle fibers, and do for example, hammer curls.
Or even take a long distance runner, doing sprints sometimes. You use different muscle fibers and it can add size, power, strength whichever you decide to focus on to your body.
So now, your
I still have until tomorrow to discuss
I dont think shocking is a myth. When I say shocking, I mean that if one stays doing the same thing, take for instance, standing dumbell bicep curls, all the time for a bicep movement- it would be much more beneficial, to "shock" or possibly add more growth, use different muscle fibers, and do for example, hammer curls.
Or even take a long distance runner, doing sprints sometimes. You use different muscle fibers and it can add size, power, strength whichever you decide to focus on to your body.
So now, your
I'll talk about that when you get unbanned.
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