sixsixfour

Never married - definitely want prenup


QFT



would you be driving without car insurance because you have faith and trust in your driving skills? a prenup is essentially the same thing.

and for those with trust issues, let me turn it around and ask you this : if you really love the other person wanting a prenup, then it shouldnt really matter, right? as all that person is trying to do is protect both of you in case something untowardly happens.


peope have said it before and i will say it again - id rather have a prenup and not need it, than need one and not have it.

1Louder

Insurance policies are primarily there to account for a) things outside your control and b) mistakes you might make. To say a marriage ends due to "unknows outside your control" is rarely true (and I mean "your" to mean the couple). I suppose one of the partners going mental could be considered outside your control, but I would say that's the extreme and highly unlikely case. Marriages mostly end because of the decisions being made by the people involved - things perfectly within their control. To me, this is the difference between gettting car insurance to protect against the other drivers (makes sense) versus getting insurance because at some point I may decide to drive my car into a tree.

Anyone who has been married for 10+ years (18 here BTW) knows that part of the success factors have to to with resolve and simply deciding to be with someone. In my observation, this is something many folks entering a marriage for the first time don't understand very well. To me, having a prenup is saying is you are open to the possibility of the marriage ending. Sure you don't have that in mind, and clearly that's not the intent going in, but a prenup acknowledges the fact that the marriage ending is one of the possible outcomes.

Again, it comes back to how you view what it means to be married. If you view marriage as something that has conditions upon which it will end, it makes a lot of sense to have a prenup. If you view marriage as a life-long commitment, having a prenup stands in opposition to that idea.

I think it's unfortunate when marriage is reduced to a business arrangement. That's just me.

RaviNJCLs

iTrader: (4)

Congrats on reducing a marriage to a machine that spends most of its time surrounded by other machines going 65 mph. I got insurance more for the idiots around me, not just my driving skills.

A prenup IS NOT the same as car insurance. Like Louder said, insurance is for something outside of your control or mistakes. Everytime you get in your car, you can potentially get into an accident because you can't always control it.

If a marriage was the same, then every time you go to the mall, you can potentially bang 10 hot blondes because they are there and get in your way. I know....that's just dumb right. But the hope is that the prenup will protect you from repercussions of doing something like that. That's insurance. Call it the Hot Blonde Clause, or the Pool Boy Clause for the wife.

IMO, this is reducing your marriage to a contractual agreement.

sixsixfour

okay, i think that i came across in the wrong way.

i come from a conservative family where marriage is "till death do us part". that would be preferred for me but it is not realistic.

because of the nature of how marriages are here in CA, there is nothing wrong with being a realist. sure, there are always exceptions to the rule (people living happily ever after), but I cannot discount the fact that people change over time. I could probably say with 100% certainty I would work things out till the end, but there is no way of knowing if your partner will feel the same, much less be the same years down the line.

in reality, marriage has become a contractual agreement. especially more so here in CA. sucks, but its true.

my reasons for prenup differ from most. certainly how you projected the way i see it isnt true. i would fall under the category where i will need protection should the wife leave due to "unreconcilable differences" or some bs like that. I know I can control myself, but there are a LOT of things I cannot and will not be able to control. the current environment and the media sure isnt helping, what with traditional marriage also being objected to here in CA.


on a side note, how come there is so much hostility towards the ones who would like a prenup? I see the 2 sides in this discussion. my side does not condem the people that think marriage is a good idea. but the inverse seems to apply. i have no problems with people wanting to marry for various reasons without a prenup, but feel like its such a travesty to suggest a prenup "just in case".

sixsixfour

it is unfortunate. but that has almost become the norm.

dont hate the player, hate the game.

TS_eXpeed

For me, refusing to acknowledge the fact that divorce is a possibility is naive in the case that one of the partners has significant assets. It's plain and simple facts. You can't sit here and act like people have "fallen in love for money". It happens. And even those who don't fall for money, say even a "mutual divorce" where things had steadily been going downhill and both realize that marriage wasn't what they expected, or they realize that in end, they really don't work well as a family together; regardless, the less fortunate of the two is going away with half of what the other has; and if half of what that individual has plays a major contributing factor in say a business they are running, so long sucker.

Will Y.

To me, marriage is a relationship that has benefits beyond those available in a business arrangement. The pre-nuptial contract is a contract which addresses only one aspect of that relationship, and does so only in the event that relationship goes awry.

Yes, we acknowledge that a divorce is possible, as we also acknowledge that a big earthquake could destroy our home or that I might make a mistake with the drill and thus wear goggles-- none of that reduces our joy from being married, living in SoCal, or me using a power drill.

Besides, if a pre-nup was a business arrangement, I'd have a contract for about 6 brunette and 6 blonde swimsuit models instead of a middle-age wife and two kids... but I don't...

1Louder

So here's my question - not really aimed at you personally but in general. Why get married then? Our culture - world-wide - seems to expect that people get married and have kids and if you don't, something is wrong. I actually have a LOT more respect for the single 40 year old who stayed that way because they know they don't have the skills to make a marriage successful (in fact, I have a friend in that exact position). Or the married couple who don't have kids because they know that's not what they want or they know they don't have the skills. But what happens is people get pressured into doing both, when they are neither prepared or skilled to do either. We spend 13-17 years educating ourself on how to apply a skill to earn a living, yet we enter a marriage or start a family with zero education. So I'll cycle back around to my question - if you know or suspect (from the outset) that your marriage might end, why get married? Aside from a mutual agreement to live together for a while until the clauses of the prenup become more advantageous than remaining together.

I sure hope this isn't coming across as hostility. I don't really have anything against folks who go this route, as it's an individual decision and one size does not fit all (being married in the first place included). Personally, I just think it sets the wrong tone for a marriage if you ARE setting out to make it a life-long deal. What gets wrapped up in this issue for me (that has nothing to do with prenups) is the basic observation in this country of entering into a marriage and starting a family in a wreckless and irresponsible manner that ultimately hurts the children involved. So another general question - would people be more resolved to make their marriages work, or be more thoughtful about entering into one, if they didn't have the safety net of a prenup? If you perceive that kind of risk, why continue with the marriage? I'm not really trying to judge folks with prenups - just trying to understand it a bit better.

1Louder

So what if the game is that society has become increasingly "me centered/selfish" over the last 3-4 decades which, being a behavior distructive to a marriage, is driving higher divorce rates and causing a perceived need for more prenups. Just a thought.

Eggplant-EX

Good luck with this one.

When I married at 26 (starting off in new career with no real savings), it never crossed my mind. Wifey got on with an airline as a flight attendant and pay was not great. Then I retrained in Real Estate and started racking up some $$$$$$. We wound up divorced and I got lucky that she did not nail me to the Wall.

Present g/f wants the married thing before we can live under one roof. I do not hide my age and to be honest, I will not marry with out a prenup. After the divorce with my wife, I realised that if I marry again, I cannot afford to wind up in divorce Court again and fighting for my assets. I earn good money now, have alot saved and have alot in my retirement. Ain't gonna jeapordize retirement no how. When I hit 62, I want to be able to quit working and not worry too much about money.

This is going to sund pessimistic but for me, it is realistic. Out of the 10 marriages, I figure at least 6 will wind up in divorce. Of the 4 left, 2 are most likely still together cause theyt do not dare break up the marriage or they are staying for the kids. That leaves 2 that are good to decent marriages.

wndrlst

I didn't have a prenup. Neither of us wound up regretting it. No lawyers were involved. I'm grateful that we both behaved rationally.

I don't know how I'd feel about signing one if I ever get married again. I'd rather not be asked to, and I can't imagine asking him to sign one. That said, I realize some people are more practical than others, and I don't think I'd balk at one either. Assuming it was reasonable. I can see how it could come across as a lack of trust, though. If someone really knows me - really, they'd know it was unnecessary.

Dr. Colorado

Google is your friend These stats are from a 2002 report based on 1996 data. If you think divorce rates have gone down since 1996, the only person you're kidding is yourself.

Here is an excerpt from the Census Bureau report, with a link to the full report:

"The National Center for Health Statistics recently released a report which found that 43
percent of first marriages end in separation or divorce within 15 years. The study is based on the National Survey of Family Growth, a nationally representative sample of women age 15 to
44 in 1995. Bramlett, Matthew and William Mosher. "First marriage dissolution, divorce, and
remariage: United States," Advance Data From Vital and Health Statistics; No.323. Hyattsville
MD: National Center for Health Statistics: 2 1.

"Data in the Census report were collected from both men and women, age 15 and over, and a
different methodology was used than in the NCHS report.

"About 50% of first marriages for men under age 45 may end in
divorce, and between 44 and 52% of women's first marriages
may end in divorce for these age groups. The likelihood of a divorce
is lowest for men and women age 60, for whom 36 % of men
and 32 percent of women may divorce from their first marriage by
the end of their lives. A similar statistical exercise was performed in
1975 using marital history data from the Current Population Survey
(CPS). Projections based on those data implied that about one-third of
married persons who were 25 to 35 years old in 1975 would end their
first marriage in divorce.

"This cohort of people, who in 1996 were about 45 to 55 years old, had
already exceeded these projections as about 40% of men and
women in these ages had divorced from their first marriage. Current
projections now indicate that the proportion could be as high as
50% for persons now in their early forties."
Rose M. Kreider and Jason M. Fields, "Number, Timing, and Duration of
Marriages and Divorces: 1996", U.S. Census Bureau Current Population Reports, February 2002, p. 18.

RaviNJCLs

iTrader: (4)

Eggplant....I guess I can see your side because you have been divorced and are thinking of someday getting re-married. And like you said, you make some good coin now.

NSXNEXT

iTrader: (2)

I think if you feel the need to get a prenup, either:

1) You're not ready to get married
2) You're not marrying the right person

My wife had nothing when we got married + about $60K in grad school debt. I had a house, two cars, etc. and I never once thought about getting a prenup.

NSXNEXT

iTrader: (2)

Read eggplant's thread and yeah I guess it really depends on the age. I could see big issues if you're near retirement age and wanting to get remarried.

sixsixfour

No you are fine.

It does set a wrong tone for a marriage, especially since it is at the begining.

the thing is, you can never be too sure about someone. you really dont know whats going on in their heads 100% of the time. as ive said, there are exceptions to the rule, but again, i do not like the odds - just a personal preference here.

i do agree there should be a risk involved to the point that people entering marriage KNOW what they are getting into and it is for the long haul. but people dont see any risks, and therefore take marriage lightly. that certainly pisses me off. to that extent, a prenup would make sense, as I dont always know what circumstances or situations would transpire now, and in the future, that may lead to my partner to have second thoughts.

people have control over what they do that affects their marriage, but the spouse does not have control over what their spouse thinks over the course of their marriage. and it is with that uncertainty that I would want a prenup to protect me, my assets and my future children.


hopefully i didnt beat around the bush too much on that.



I understand your position. I would like to get married someday - have kids, have a good home, etc. I dont think I have all the skills and experience needed to make a marriage work, and thats why I havent pulled the trigger.

not to mean any disrespect, but nobody can suspect a marriage ending right from the begining - show me someone who can predict their own marriage failing somewhere down the line and I'll show you someone who can predict the next winning lottery number. sorry, but it is a statistical figure. you cannot argue with the numbers, even more so the odds.

if more people stateside valued the term commitment, then maybe I would reconsider. but a lot do ponder the thought of moving on at some point when things dont work out, and for that unlikely occurence, I would just like to be prepared.

RaviNJCLs

iTrader: (4)

How old were you when you guys got married?

And I feel the same way. When I got married my wife had debt, and I had some cash. Never once did I think about it either.

Dr. Colorado

Every single day, I use statistics from medical and pharmacologic studies, trials, and journal articles to make health management decisions for my patients. If a study is randomized, double-blinded, placebo controlled, even better. If a drug has the stats to back it's efficacy, I'd have proclivity to use that particular drug over an inferior medication. Statistics don't lie.

Maybe because of my background, I lend greater weight to statistics. Fine, it's nice to be idealistic and everything can be hunky-dory but I'm already going to wedding #2 for some of my high school friends and that's sad. The fact that people even refer to their first marriage as "starter marriages" is a pathetic reflection on the current state of matrimony in our society.

Am I going to risk all the coin I've gained after slaving through 12 frickin years of college, med school, and residency? Sleepless nights, eating top ramen and microwave popcorn for dinner, getting abused by attendings and sh-t on by ungrateful patients? Hell the f-ck no!

TS_eXpeed

GrandeInter10

Preach on Reverend!!!

thrashkid

I am divorced and did not have one, but if I were to marry someone again and either he or I had significant financial differences and it was important to him, I would sign one. I know that I give everything I can in a relationship to make it work so if it failed, hopefully he did to.

1Louder

Lots of different situations out there.

Will Y.

I'm pretty sure I was ready to marry and that my wife was the right person.
I suggested a prenup as I had few assets, minimal cash and was in the midst of setting up a new business, but my wife (like Whisker's wife) had some cash that I thought should remain her separate property.

What the hell was I thinking...