CUNextTuesday

This is another very complicated matter in this whole mess...

Who's to say that the man should not have say in the matter? Are we not 50% responsible for the situation? Granted, the woman is the one carrying the child, it's her body, she's pregnant. But life afterwards will affect the man just as much (if he man's up and sticks around).

I think the guys are definitely entitled to some say, though ultimately the decision is up to the woman seeing as how we cannot force them to have an abortion. It'd be nice if the woman considered the man's thoughts and how he feels about everything - it's something that will change both of their lives.

ericajackhannahjamie?

CUNexdtTuesday: You just contradicted yourself there.
In your argument, you said men are 50% responsible for causing the pregnancy, but the woman is the one carrying the child. Men are entitled to some say but decision is up to the woman....

CUNextTuesday

Not exactly, but perhaps I wasn't so clear about what I was saying...let me know if I'm still making no sense...

When it comes down to it the choice is up to the woman. There's nothing that can change that - she's the one who's pregnant. Many people say that because the woman is the one who's pregnant, the man should have no say in what choice she makes. I argue that we are 50% responsible for the situation and it will affect our lives a great deal as well. So I think the woman should take our thoughts into consideration.

The problem is that she doesn't have to and we can't really influence her decision if she doesn't want us to. So while I think the man's thoughts and feelings on the matter should be taken into consideration as well, they really can't be unless the woman is willing. The whole thing is tough

RaviNJCLs

iTrader: (4)

As much as I would like to say you are correct, the fact is that considering the guy's feelings on the matter is great, but it's ultimately up to the woman. Definately we are 50% responsible for the "situation." But the choice should be 100% up to the woman.

I think guys that pressure women when they are pregnant to keep it or get rid of it without letting them make the decision are being selfish. We don't have to carry a kid around for 9 months and that makes it a lot easier for us to say what should be done?

CUNextTuesday

This is where people start to disagree with me a lot....

The woman is the one pregnant. She will have to carry this child around for 9 months if she chooses to keep it. Her whole life will change. Understood.

Is the man's life not at stake too? He was part of this mistake, and his life will change a whole lot (assuming he's responsible and steps up to be a father).

It's a life altering situation that affects both parties, not just the woman. The woman IS the one who's life will take a crazier turn for those 9 months, but after that it's 50/50 once again...

RaviNJCLs

iTrader: (4)

The thing is that a lot of guys choose NOT to be responsible. They have that option. And if you think legally they have to be responsible, yeh that's true, but there is a reason there is a term "Dead Beat Dad."

CUNextTuesday

I completely agree...everything I said is assuming that the father mans up and accepts responsibility. It's not so much of an issue around here because I think the vast majority of people here would do the "right" thing. Though I could be wrong about this community seeing as how this speculation is based entirely upon posts on an internet forum...

SwervinCL

The woman is the only person that can make the decision on whether or not to have the child. But if the woman makes that final decision without any input from the "father" then I dont think its right/fair for the woman to come to the "father" for child support.

Erz

PRO-LIFE. I haven't read the whole thread but so this may have been said already but..... If you are a young kid, stupid, and having sex and get pregnant, it doesn't entitle you to have an abortion. If you're old enough to realize your decisions and you have sex and a condom breaks, tough shit. If you don't use one at all, tougher shit. THE only reason an abortion should take place, IMO, is if a women becomes pregnant following a rape or if it is found out early enough that the mother has a good chance of not making it bc of a medical condition.

SwervinCL

So its ok to bring a child into this world that you can not provide a life for. Thats not to fair to the child, is it?

BustedJack

someone's bitter

Sounds like someone who must use tough language in order to get their point acrossed. Great Debate-101 there
You must be from philly? you are!

CUNextTuesday

So I guess if someone's on birth control, taking it properly, and uses a condom, but that 1/100000 shit happens and they still happen to get pregnant - sucks for them huh?

BustedJack

You said
"If you are a young kid, stupid, and having sex and get pregnant, it doesn't entitle you to have an abortion"

I say why not? Did you play a part of making that child? Is it even a child yet? (the answer is not until months later) The point is, she made a mistake, it's her action to correct it by abortion if she desires. It's her choice... not yours nor mine. She's not entitled to make an abortion, but people who are against abortion like yourself have more of a say than she does?

Com'on, you gotta come up with something better than that!

moeronn

Abortion >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Give birth and throw baby in dumpster

SwervinCL

OR Abortion >>>>>>Not being at all able to provide the child with the life that that child deserves.

CUNextTuesday

^^^
Yes...Does Erz think that "young kid, stupid, and having sex" is ready to provide for a child? Financially and emotionally?

RaviNJCLs

iTrader: (4)

SwervinCL

Absolutly not. Kids are a HUGE responsibilty. They require sooooo much... How can you give a kid what they REQUIRE if you are "young & stupid"


I love people that are PRO-LIFE and have such strong opinions when they have never been in the shoes of people that have had to make these decisions.

BustedJack

^ she is thinking REALLY hard for a comeback! Give her time, she's young herself. But she's very educated as you can tell from her post.

Be patient and she'll have some answers for you soon

CUNextTuesday

I agree...you have an entirely different view of things when your faced with that situation yourself.

michiamo

Exactly - even worse - letting the taxpayers foot the bill. Personally, I'd rather see someone have an abortion than look to the gov't for money.



ps - doesn't anyone talk about this BEFORE they have sex?!?!

SwervinCL

No, because its not a problem before... You think you are being "safe" by using protection or whatever, but sometimes the protection fails. I know I have had it happen before.

CUNextTuesday

I really think most people don't think it will ever happen to them, especially at younger ages. Back in highschool I rarely heard about girls getting pregnant at all, but I've come to realize it happens more often than most think. It's just that most people don't talk about it - it's very personal.

michiamo

I agree, just like most people don't think social disease will happen to them either, but then it does. Maybe I'm too practical, but I knew that in HS I was way too young to deal with the consequences of sex, and when I grew up and did find someone I love, we talked about it (hey, I wasn't giving up college/career for a baby at 20, my now-fiance felt the same way. If we couldn't agree on this, then there was no point in getting involved, you know). I don't know, but in the circles I travelled in, you didn't have a baby as a teen, you were considered a loser (sorry, but I still believe this). I know several girls who had abortions (not an easy thing to go through, trust me) just because that's how it was, and they weren't throwing their lives away before they got started.

michiamo

Um, yes, no birth control method is 100% accurate, hence the need for the "what if" talk.

SwervinCL

But no one thinks like that. Exactly what CU said. No one thinks that it will happen to them.

Andrea25

I waited until i was 18 to lose the v-card...there were plenty of times in HS where i wanted to, but i was just too damn scared to get pregnant. end of story.
my parents probably would've kicked me out of the house...

SwervinCL

You were brought up with SASK morals, you dont count!

Just kidding Andrea.

Andrea25

Nothin like a case of beer, a bonfire, and a handy bush, as they say down on the farm...

after a long night of cow-tipping of course...

ahh..bush parties...

SwervinCL

Oh those were the days.... I miss living there sometimes... But then the -40 winters makes me not miss it so much....

Where did all these pro-lifers go? :crickets:

moeronn

Out bombing abortion clinics and killing the doctors who perform them?

SwervinCL

CUNextTuesday

I've never heard of anyone (younger people at least) talking about "what ifs" regarding pregnancy. I think if you start bringing that up, especially with younger women, your chances of getting laid will go waaaayyy down.

Scottman111

Not exactly the topic to bring up while you've got your hand down her pants.

Scribesoft

Ha-Ha... 2 little Scribesoft Monkeys at home, so Pro-Life here! It's funny how things change when you get older.. I used to be pro-choice (in a theoretical way, as I was never actually put to the test before I was ready for kids)

My biggest child-related issue right now is determining my new health insurance for the family... If I go with no maternity rider, I can get it for 1/2 the monthly cost of having the maternity rider (over a $500/mo difference)... I just have to make sure I don't knock up Old Mrs. Scribesoft again if I go the cheaper route..

BUT, if I do make her belly big again, I guess I'll just have to put an addition on the house..

CUNextTuesday

^^^
I think most people have a very different outlook when they're in a committed relationship and ready for children.

Scribesoft

^ Although we were married when we had #1, we weren't quite ready yet. It happened as a surprise 3 months after we got married... Our original plans were to wait about 3 YEARS.. but, hey, what can you do?

And I wasn't married for a LONG time before and always took the proper precautions to NOT get chicks pregnant before I was ready.

In my eyes, if someone is pregnant and the baby is not wanted, then somebody fooked up big time and they need to take care of the mess they created. The answer is not always the easiest way out (abortion)..

And I say all this as a human being... I couldn't be further from a believer in religion, so that doesn't drive me.

CUNextTuesday

You really think abortion is the easiest way out? In my opinion there is no easy way out. Many women have emotional issues afterwards, that's why the clinics offer counseling. It is not an easy thing to abort a child...

NYZGREATST

nothing wrong with killing a few cell clusters...... DEF SOMETHING WRONG WITH KILLING SOMETHING WITH parts (past first tri-mester)

whats worse..... throwing a brand new baby into a trash can or just aborting a cell cluster

Slimey

Don't kid yourself -- It's more then a clump of cells (blastocyst) at the time of abortion. Most abortions are performed between 3 and 10 weeks of gestation which covers the entire embryonic period to the beginning of the fetal period.


Still doesn't phase me though - abort, abort, abort.