^But that is an argument in regards as the when the fetus becomes a baby. I stand by as long as its brain dead its a fetus. I don't know the exact time window, but their should be some insurance weeks ahead of that date estimate for cutoff.

Mike

 

I 2nd that motion.

But then again, not everyone paid attention in biology101. Don't let religious BS blind scientific facts.


It's not a baby within first few weeks.

 

Ultimatly it does come down to a religion vs. science debate...

Mike

 

I think we can all agree that decisions should be made according to each individual.

Some of you vote "pro life", some like me voted for "pro choice" and some voted "depends". It all comes down to each person's current life status, if you are ready, then I say have the baby. If you aren't, then abortion is the way to go. The pregnant woman should be able to have the FINAL SAY, not some douchebag that cries out for PRO-CHOICE or PRO-LIFE who knows nothing about the current status of the individual.

 

There are plenty of non-religious pro-life people out there.

 

Um not exactly...I think where a person is at in their life has the most influence (it did for me anyway).

 

I'm sure their are some... But majority is religion based.

Edit: CUnextTuesday... The moral challenges wound up with early term abortion are largly religion based...

Mike

 

AMEN, some get's the PRO-CHOICE, not pro abortion thing

 

Its not a religious issue, its a moral issue. And, in this case science doesnt offer any answers. Legaly though, its not a person untill it leaves the womb.

 

My lady, not everyone knows about "morning after pill". You have to understand there are plenty of folks in this world who are uneducated or less-educated or knows nothing about birth controls, protections etc.,

Accidents do happen, and people do make mistakes. I just hope that if it comes down to abortion, those who have used it or will use it should only use it once and learn from their mistakes.
I don't think people would use abortion as a birth control method... it's not that healthy to have abortions over and over.

 

Science does offer answers though...

Mike

 

Actually, the problem is that not everyone does agree that the decision should be made according to each individual.

 

Moral issues, yes I agree with you on that.

 

It absolutely does not. Its a moral problem, period. Science can tell us when life is formed, when that life form has feelings, when its brain develops, etc. But it cant tell us when it is morally justifiable to end the life.

 

These are not the people getting abortions.

 

correct, hence the ABORTION issue is such a big deal.

 

I have to disagree. Two of my best friends, along with myself, have all been in this situation and the girls all chose to have abortions. None of these decisions were religion based....

There's an extremely large number of people who have abortions everyday, the thing is that most people don't tell you they have them (for obvious reasons).

 

 

ok gentlemen, lady.
This was a great topic but I'm afraid I must leave you for an important engagement with the lady. I'm sure when I check this thread again, it will be least 15 pages long.

So far we have had a clivilized debate and I wish to continue this way next time I read it.

 

I dont think its right for people that are pro-life to make the desicions of other people. They dont know everyones situations and for them to say that its not right to have abortions, I think are ignorant.

Think of the poor woman that gets raped and gets pregnant. Forced to have the kid because abortions are against the law. She now, has to look at the child that her bastard raper gave her. Im not saying that she is going to love that child any less, but that child is going to remind her of what happened every day of her life.

 

And some that do know about it do (did) not have access to it because the local Wal-mart pharmacy refused to carry it.

 

^^
Fortunately, I don't think abortions will ever be against the law - it just poses too many problems.

 

Right, so we can base our moral decisions off that science. A fertilized egg is no more of a life form than a sperm cell or egg cell is, except it has twice as many chromosomes and has started mitosis.

Again, the highly religious who are against stem cell research, abortion, etc, make up a large part of the pro-life croud: see prolife.com

Mike

 

Man, I hope not. Even before parental consent became an issue, I can remember girls at my high school begging their boyfriends to punch them in the stomach, taking all sorts of weird herbal "medicines" and the like in order to "naturally" miscarry their pregnancies because they either didn't have the $400 to get an abortion, or didn't want their parents to ask why they were feeling under the weather.

To my knowledge, none of their attempts were successful and a couple of them actually got a real abortion eventually, but imagine what lengths they'd have gone to if abortion were actually ILLEGAL? At least someone was able to talk some sense into those girls and convince them to terminate their unwanted pregnancies in a controlled medical environment rather than taking Astro's suggestion of coat hangers and vacuum cleaners.

 

I said it before and I'll say it again. I do not think the majority of people even base their moral decisions on that science. They base them heavily upon their specific situation. They often do, however, use that science when arguing with pro-lifers...

 

Good thing that you don't need any parental consent to get an abortion in Jersey

 

^I'd think just by taking a few breaths of the air, or glasses of the water...

I will still disagree and say your morals are based largely off science or religion.

Mike

 

It will never happen.

 

Are you telling me that my morals are based on science and religion? ha!

 

Actually, I don't think they even have to notify the parents in NJ.

 

What does science have anything to do with anything in this discusion?

I guess you just dont understand because you have never been in those shoes.

 

Nope...no consent = no notification. There's about 15 states or so that a minor can get an abortion with no parental consent. Most other's you need at least one parent's consent, though it is possible to get a judge to bypass this depending on your situation...

 

I don't think most states require it. I mentioned parental consent because I'm talking about the days when NOBODY required it, when it was TOTALLY legal for all ages, and girls I knew wanted to take drastic measures anyway, on the off-chance their parents may find out.

IMO, making parental consent a law poses a lot more problems than it fixes.

 

Unfortunately, I don't share your optimism. With the recent conservative Supreme Court appointments, Roe v. Wade could realistically be overturned.

 

I am pro-choice, but this is a topic that I rather stay away from.

Jack, cute avatar

 

Pro choice. It should be no ones decision other than the mother

 

I think the pro-life VS pro-choice issue is far too big an issue in America compared to the other societal ills there are (eg drugs, guns, war).

Perhaps my Canadian upbringing and there being pro-choice my whole life, as well as other 'liberal' viewpoints we have (eg gay marriages, legal to for females to walk topless in Ontario, medicinal marijuana, etc) ...

Everyone has a right to their opinion. Why do conservative zealots kill abortion doctors to 'save' the unborn? Isn't that forcing your opinion onto someone else? It's almost like killing in the name of war. Isn't it the same conservatives who support a war against terrorism (ie kill the 'bad people') but at the same time want to protect the unborn? Isn't killing a life equally bad? This makes no sense to me. Can someone clarify this?

Is this the difference -- it's OK to kill someone with a gun for something your gov't wants you to believe is right/moral?

In case you don't know ... I'm pro-choice ... I can't, in my good conscience, force my opinion onto someone else. We live in a democracy and that's the right women have. Some of the proposals the right-wing US gov't have sent to debate on the floor basically does not allow any sort of abortion ... even ones that endanger the life of the mother or women that are victims of sexual assault.

 

Good idea... I wish I could have done so. Now I'm glued to the screen, waiting to see who pops up with the next ignorant comment.

 

choice

 

The majority of states actually do require it, but the laws do vary slightly from state to state.