CUNextTuesday

Both parties are equally at fault....unless of course the woman LIES about birth control of something of that sort. Some would argue that the guy should of wrapped up regardless, but it's truely fucked up of a girl to lie like that. I've known girls to lie and try to get pregnant just to keep guys around - fucked up on so many levels.

Dan Martin

What's the difference between Pro-Choice and "depends"?

If you choose "depends", does that mean you think there are circumstances where the woman should be allowed to decide, and times when the law would force them to have their baby?

GIBSON6594

I'm not saying that they aren't at fault, i'm saying that care and precautions need be taken so that unwanted pregnancy doesn't happen. Thats the first step. Then if it does happen, yes the man and woman should be equally supportive of eachother. But the baby can't be blamed for your mistake, especially the baby is killed for that mistake.

CUNextTuesday

Some people aren't really either...but I guess if you're not always pro-life, then you must be pro-choice.

CUNextTuesday

Do you believe a baby is really a living human being at conception?

Ashburner

Pro-Choice and I have been in the situation before- more than once.

Nothing is worse than raising a child if your not 100% dedicated to them. These are the kids that grow up to be living on the streets, in gangs, and a burden on society. They should have been terminated long ago!

GIBSON6594

I believe life beings at conception

CUNextTuesday

I guess that's a huge different for some people, because personally I don't see a fertilized egg as a living being.

GIBSON6594

It's def one of the biggest issues of the conflict. Of course it doesn't look like a human being and none of us have memories of that stage in life, but i just see it as inevitabley that egg will become what I have become.

astro

condoms break, shit happens, it's not always something that has fault tied to it.

Ashburner

So, do you eat Chicken eggs?

GIBSON6594

Of course, but the condom breaking is not the baby's fault and it shouldn't die for that reason. If you can't concievable take care of the baby, put it up for adoption.

KaMLuNg

iTrader: (5)

i thought Catholicism didn't believe in fate and destiny... but then that is a whole other discussion

i voted depends because it really does depend on the situation the mother is in at the time... especially if she cannot financially or emotionally support the child or especially if the birth is a danger to the mother's life...

even though i am basically pro choice, if a girl was pregnant with my child, i would not want her to have the abortion... even if it was an accident/mistake/drunken night, it is still my responsibility as an adult... but im not the one carrying the kid for 9 months... if she did agree to have the kid and we were not together, i wouldn't have a problem being a single father and finding every way to support that kid...

CUNextTuesday

Agreed.

What if the couple can't conceivably go through pregnancy, birth, etc ?

GIBSON6594

Don't start with that, it's an entirely different issue. You're gonna turn this into a cannibalism discussion and that not a good direction to lead this argument.

CUNextTuesday

You're a rare breed and I respect that. I do think that things change as you get a bit older though. I'm 19 - fuck no.

GIBSON6594

Well, like everyone has said, there are situational circumstances. I don't think the woman should die for the baby at the risk of both dying. I would support an abortion in that case.

GIBSON6594

I guess you could say that i'm 90% pro-life

CUNextTuesday

Another issue is that some people can't take the shame. A girl going through highschool while pregnant is guarenteed to be talked about.

CUNextTuesday

If there's any circumstance in which you find abortion favorable, you are pro-choice.

astro

are you for real??
dude, you have no idea.

it's not a fucking baby until it takes its first breath. i can see it being considered a human after 7months, but to suggest aborting a first trimester fetus is akin to killing a baby is just completely bonkers.

GIBSON6594

And that is valid, but again, should the baby die because of that shame?

I value life more than some people might. Some people just figure we all die, so who cares, and that isn't wrong, it's just not my view.

GIBSON6594

That's illogical

In that sense if there was any situation where you would find abortion infavorable, then you are pro-life.

Say some sick bitch was going around getting knocked up every other year and getting abortions left and right without care? Would you codone that? Even if just the health of the girl herself is considered, something inside yourself has to tell you that it just doesn't seem right to do that.

CUNextTuesday

Here's my gripe with adoption:

You just went through 9 months of pregnancy, carrying this child, supporting this child, you go through hell in labor for who knows how long, then give up the child? Many woman CAN'T do that. They cannot give up their baby. It's their child and there are many people who think about adoption while their pregnant, but totally change their minds afterwards.

In that case, a child can now be born into a home that is not prepared for it - uh oh.

CUNextTuesday

No, it's not like that. Pro-choice means that you have a CHOICE. It means you are in favor of whatever choice the couple or woman decides to make, abortion being one of those choices. It does not mean that you are against birth....

Pro-life, on the other hand, means that you are entirely against abortion. You cannot be "partially" pro-life, because you are then pro-choice. Get it?

GIBSON6594

Not for nothing, but what "idea" do you have?

It's hasn't take it's first breath at 7 months either. Who are you to say when life begins and when it should end?

So what about 6 months, or 5 months? What is that cutoff?

I don't know, and neither do you. What I do know is that I can summize to a fertilized egg as being more alive than dead.

Ryee

Yeah, but what about the women who decide to get an abortion only to be saddled with regret for the rest of their lives because they feel they made a mistake?

fdl

Good question. I think, for me, it means that in some cases I think abortion is understandable, and I support the right to choose , while in others I think abortion is completely wrong.

KaMLuNg

iTrader: (5)

yeah @ 19 i would be very afraid too...

yes priorities do change as people get older... for those still in HS and maybe even college, it would not be possible to raise a child comfortably... (without welfare/gov't support)

crazymjb

You can't say "only in certain situations" on this subject. You are either pro choice or pro life. I am pro choice, but only to the point where the embryo is incapable of development without the mother, or in otherwords, brain dead. You can take someone brain dead of LS, you can terminate a fetus with no ability to think.

While I agree that it is stupid to use abortion as a form of birth control, I have no problem unless it is being used for Eugenics, but thats a whole other debate.

But as I will say again. If you have no moral problems with terminating an early stage pregnancy, you can't say someone using it as birth control regularly is immoral, maybe stupid, but thats about it.

As for adoption: It pisses me off how people spend 30-100K running around in foreign countries to adopt kids when their are thousands here that need it. You think you are doing something special by turning a blind eye to American children and spending 100K to get some kid from Russia?

Mike

GIBSON6594

I know what you're saying, but it's just not that black and white to me. Put it like this, I am against the violation of human rights.

CLPowersWife

Just because you guys are upstanding citizens, please don't forget that there are thousands (probably millions) of scumbags out there who will get a chick pregnant and leave her as soon as they find out.

At that point, who is really to blame for the abortion? The girl who, realizing she can't go it alone, decides to terminate? Or the guy who knocked her up and ditched her when consequences reared their ugly heads?

It's not as simple as "letting a guy put his thingie in you", okay? And young girls are notoriously dumb, scared, and unable to fathom the idea of facing family, friends, work/school alone for 9 months, only to give the reason for their ostracism away for adoption.

I agree that it shouldn't be used as birth control (not only because that's just wrong, but because it's inherently unhealthy as well), but let's not demonize millions of scared teenagers, please.

GIBSON6594

Agreed, completley that the burden of fault could fall on the man as well as the woman, my point is that it shouldn't fall on the baby.

CUNextTuesday

Well said.

CUNextTuesday

It seems like you're only thinking about the baby, and not so much about what the mother will face.

astro

gibson, i just can't believe u think teh victims of a broken condom should continue the cycle and vicitimize a child by bringing it into the world when they are not ready, or capable of providing, or caring for it. How does this even begin to make sense to you???

CUNextTuesday

And not even broken condoms, but accidents in general. We are humans, we make mistakes.

GIBSON6594

Is that wrong?

Does the mother face death?

astro

you idiot, it's not a fucking baby until well after the 1st trimester is long done, what the fuck do you keep going on about??

you think a mother should just give up 9 months of her life to bring an unwanted bastard child into the world? the result of a defective condom, or any other such insnate...This is a better option than just aborting it within a couple months of finding out???

RaviNJCLs

iTrader: (4)

The reason most people think about the baby first is that the baby didn't have a choice in the matter and cannot help themselves.