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If we couldn't even get everyone mask up or vaccinated in a real pandemic, how do we expect everyone to care more about something that is even less "real" and "far away"
Whether EV is greener or not is almost irrelevant in my eyes.
Buy it because you like it or if you dont wanna pay for gas. All other reasons will never be convincible, one way or the other.
This pandemic has taught me a lot of things.
Just keeping it real here
#human
Back in the day I was one of the early hybrid owners (2002 Civic Hybrid). Back then, the prevailing statement regarding why someone got a hybrid was, "You're a greenie, cheapie, or techie - pick 2". Probably not too far from that even today.
Back in the day I was one of the early hybrid owners (2002 Civic Hybrid). Back then, the prevailing statement regarding why someone got a hybrid was, "You're a greenie, cheapie, or techie - pick 2". Probably not too far from that even today.
There is 1 major difference, the previous EV/Hybrids were blocking everyone in the left lane and blocking every lane in local
Now, they are no longer slow with the exception of Prius.
Last edited by oonowindoo; Aug 11, 2022 at 03:16 PM.
Maybe. How do you know? The presenter in this video makes some valid points. But in my case, I could not care less; its just that some owners of these EV's that make statements without knowing all the facts.
I've seen this video before and, while the premise is correct, the actual data being presented isn't really true.
For starters, he's not taking into account the amount of emissions that are produced to drill, pump, transport, refine, transport again, and dispense gasoline into a car. Not to mention similar emissions created with the manufacture of all the other shit that goes into a car like engine oil, gear oil, etc that has to be routinely changed out.
On top of that, the premise that a modern battery produces that much CO2 to make is also wrong. Here's a paper by MIT that states what a modern battery in a car like a Model 3 produces and it's nowhere close to that value:
For illustration, the Tesla Model 3 holds an 80 kWh lithium-ion battery. CO2 emissions for manufacturing that battery would range between 2400 kg (almost two and a half metric tons) and 16,000 kg (16 metric tons).1 Just how much is one ton of CO2? As much as a typical gas-powered car emits in about 2,500 miles of driving
In any case, I didn't buy an EV for the "green" nature of it. I bought one because it's fast, fun to drive, cheap to run, cheap to insure, very safe, and costs next to nothing to fuel.
Originally Posted by Tech
Exactly my point as I do not want any limitations. I am not about to buy a second vehicle or rent one for my long trips. And the reason why I with my very limited pension can afford two 911s, an Acrua RDX and my five motorcycles is because I am frugal. I do all my own maintenance and repairs and I do not constantly pi$$ money away on trading my vehicles in on the latest and greatest every few years.
Plus I would hate my car sounding like a sewing machine. Good for others, not for me. Although not for me either, a Hybrid or Plug-In as long as it has an engine.
Then don't sell one of your many other cars that could service those limitations? Or just don't buy an EV? No one is saying you should buy one, just saying that your thoughts on the whole thing aren't entirely true based on actual use cases and real users.
Curious why you have an RDX and two 911s though...do you never need to carry an 8ft piece of wood or a 4x8 sheet of plywood? What about tow more than 3500lbs? You are being limited by what you have already.
^ On the last point, I have a Flex & a Malibu, but have family close by with trucks. So I'm covered there.
That said, I'm seriously considering going deep & going back to a truck or picking up a few year old Suburban
You do realize no one is forcing you to buy an EV, right?
Exactly! And the thread question was "Are you considering an EV yet?". And I posted MY reasons for not owning one. Real simple until someone else tries to make a case for ME.
In fact, I do not own a single battery-powered power tool or yard tool. Why, because everytime I use a power tool at my neighbors, it quits in the middle of a job. Just get me a damn power tool I can plug into a friggin wall! Mine work all the time!
Exactly! And the thread question was "Are you considering an EV yet?". And I posted MY reasons for not owning one. Real simple until someone else tries to make a case for ME.
In fact, I do not own a single battery-powered power tool or yard tool. Why, because everytime I use a power tool at my neighbors, it quits in the middle of a job. Just get me a damn power tool I can plug into a friggin wall! Mine work all the time!
We only started asking questions when you were throwing out non-truthful information
Exactly! And the thread question was "Are you considering an EV yet?". And I posted MY reasons for not owning one. Real simple until someone else tries to make a case for ME.
In fact, I do not own a single battery-powered power tool or yard tool. Why, because everytime I use a power tool at my neighbors, it quits in the middle of a job. Just get me a damn power tool I can plug into a friggin wall! Mine work all the time!
You gotta love this one. Other videos like it have the utilities manager make the statement that their electricity comes from 95% coal. Renewables is a drop in the bucket compared to coal+nuclear+natural gas. Add those three up. And that Dr. Zimmerman is totally clueless in her response.
ZERO chance simply because I do not want the inconvenience of owning one.
I have driven a Porsche Taycan Turbo S at a Porsche Track Experience event, but if I was buying an EV, it would be for the economics of it, not the performance and besides, I would hate a sports car sounding like a sewing machine.
EV are good as taxis and delivery vehicles in cities.
This.
Originally Posted by Tech
Just to name a very few...
Range. Remember, what is acceptable to one is not acceptable to another.
Can't recharge as often as I can find a gas station and even if I could, I am not willing to wait till the EV driver ahead of me is finished charging. It happens.
I have kept cars 14+ years. I worked in a battery lab and I know battery capacity decreases over time and I am not about to dish out big $$$ for a replacement battery.
And besides, working in a lab and having some analytical skills, I know they are not "clean" as so many think. So the "clean" aspect is not a selling feature.
Cost and economics.
Oh, in my next life when I do not know what a Turbo S sounds like.
These.
Originally Posted by Tech
Maybe. How do you know? The presenter in this video makes some valid points. But in my case, I could not care less; its just that some owners of these EV's that make statements without knowing all the facts.
[video]
This.
Originally Posted by Tech
You gotta love this one. Other videos like it have the utilities manager make the statement that their electricity comes from 95% coal. Renewables is a drop in the bucket compared to coal+nuclear+natural gas. Add those three up. And that Dr. Zimmerman is totally clueless in her response.
What fuel is used to provide power in your area is wildly different between regions, but gas, coal and nuclear make up ~79% of the national average (not 95%), and that is changing day by day.
Originally Posted by Tech
Range limitations under all temperature extremes?
Taking more than 5 minutes to fully charge a battery from near empty to 100%?
The range of your ICE vehicles can vary from gas station to gas station, elevation to elevation, and yes, even climate to climate.
And again, if you're spending 3.5-4hrs in a vehicle traveling 3-400 miles, being stationary for ~15 minutes longer than it takes to fill a gas tank isn't as big of a deal to most. But I understand if you are doing cannonball runs every single day in your RDX.
Originally Posted by Tech
Some of us worked in a lab doing actual testing. Maybe I should just agree and be wrong. LOL
Some of us actually own EVs and have real world experience with them.
FWIW,, currently ~40% of US electricity comes from clean energy (nuclear/renewables).
In 2007 coal provided ~50% of electricity in the US, 2021 it's 22%, it's slowly fading slowly
The IRA bill just passed in the House, so it's all ready for Biden to sign it. He's on vacation in SC though, so maybe it won't be for a few more days? I guess there's still some time to sneak in a purchase contract to lock in the $7500 credit.
The IRA bill just passed in the House, so it's all ready for Biden to sign it. He's on vacation in SC though, so maybe it won't be for a few more days? I guess there's still some time to sneak in a purchase contract to lock in the $7500 credit.
I've read that the new EV credits go into effect for sales after 31 Dec 2022. Seems like the current credit then is still available until then. That is if you can find one to buy.
I've read that the new EV credits go into effect for sales after 31 Dec 2022. Seems like the current credit then is still available until then. That is if you can find one to buy.
The requirement to be assembled in North America goes into effect as soon as the bill is enacted (aka when Biden signs it). The rest of the changes take affect in 2023 (or later), but not the assembly requirement.
See page 393 under Part 4 - Clean Vehicles Sec. 13401 Clean Vehicle Credit (k) Effective Dates (2) Final Assembly:
The amendments made by subsection (b) shall apply to vehicles sold after the date of enactment of this Act.
The IRA bill just passed in the House, so it's all ready for Biden to sign it. He's on vacation in SC though, so maybe it won't be for a few more days? I guess there's still some time to sneak in a purchase contract to lock in the $7500 credit.
Already did good sir.
Probably wasn't going to qualify for the new credit so had to get this in there...
I'm disappointed in all the loopholes and caveats in the tax credit/rebate. It's not going to change manufacturer behavior in terms of where they are sourcing batteries in the near term, and it's not going to change where they build them. It's a niche benefit that will maybe apply to a tiny fraction of EVs. Not worth the paper it's written on. I guess we'll see when manufacturers wade through the conditions.
I'm disappointed in all the loopholes and caveats in the tax credit/rebate. It's not going to change manufacturer behavior in terms of where they are sourcing batteries in the near term, and it's not going to change where they build them. It's a niche benefit that will maybe apply to a tiny fraction of EVs. Not worth the paper it's written on. I guess we'll see when manufacturers wade through the conditions.
It’s working exactly by design. This was crafted in a way to satisfy Manchin (get rid of the credits) and get the rest of the bill passed while allowing the Dems to save face by blaming the loss of credits on the automakers for not building/sourcing from America. Frankly I doubt many politicians care about the fate of the EV credit given everything else in the bill that they want to see enacted.
It’s working exactly by design. This was crafted in a way to satisfy Manchin (get rid of the credits) and get the rest of the bill passed while allowing the Dems to save face by blaming the loss of credits on the automakers for not building/sourcing from America. Frankly I doubt many politicians care about the fate of the EV credit given everything else in the bill that they want to see enacted.
Very good point. Satisfies the appearance of a credit without the inconvenience of actually offering one.
EV are good as taxis and delivery vehicles in cities.
^ it is due to the constant stop and go traffic where they excel over ICE. In addition, much more efficient regenerative braking can harvest A LOT of energy to recharge the battery and offset use. There are conditioning units required to ensure the batteries are up to optimal spec, and as well will need to be recharged daily if used in an industry application such as box delivery trucks. International is currently in the market with a variant of it's actual diesel truck made up as an EV truck. It has patented regenerative braking that is supposed to be industry leading. Plus the ability to program power delivery ensures your boxes aren't being launched into the back of the truck, but at the same time to help reduce congestion in traffic situations with improved acceleration.
Just wanted to chime in with some knowledge on the subject.... Answer above ^
That would be a unique offering in the EV market for sure.
Interesting rhetoric at the end though - they are really emphasizing this "us vs. them" mentality (whoever "they" are). Statements like WE didn't change the rules to change, but they did. WE read their rules, studied their rules, found the grey areas.....(what does that even mean?) This isn't they EV THEY want you to have (again who is "they"?). They even spent time on a "9 second race to extinction" graphic I mean I get it, they are trying to sell EVs to a crowd who is definitely in the "They'll take my V8 from my cold dead hands" camp and they are trying really hard to make it OK to own one. It will be interesting to see what the reception will be once it's really available. Can't argue they are taking a different approach than most.
With a 80/mile round trip commute? More inclined, but not totally sold on it.
If the going got tougher, I'd just buy a fuel efficient beater and wait for prices to recover - for me, it doesn't make sense buying a $45-55k car to save in fuel costs.
Has anyone considered the price of electricity skyrocketing?
Has anyone considered the price of electricity skyrocketing?
Yes, and it has gone up a bit but (at least in MN) cost of electricity is a regulated amount so the utility companies can't just change it at will. On the flip side, they can jack the cost of fuel whenever they damn well please.
Yes, and it has gone up a bit but (at least in MN) cost of electricity is a regulated amount so the utility companies can't just change it at will. On the flip side, they can jack the cost of fuel whenever they damn well please.
I expect that will change in the next several years as more EVs are sold.
When the electricity becomes a "fuel", the regulation will change, unless we have unlimited amount of electricity that we just don't care, which is not the case.
CA has been experiencing routine rotating blackout in the past several years already and with the more heat waves coming and more EVs, i just dont see the price will stay the same if they want to control the usage of electricity. . or they could just tell you we can only provide X amount of electricity to each household per day... you decide what you wanna do with it.
They better start building more infrastructures.
I just compared my Edison bill from the same month last year, it has gone up about 15% in total $ paid while the usage is relatively the same... Maybe there are other fees added now the electricity bills are so hard to figure out sometimes.
Last edited by oonowindoo; Aug 18, 2022 at 02:45 PM.
CA has been having blackout and brownout issues for a long time, FAR before EV's were even a twinkle in Elon's eye. They just need to generate more power and have needed to do that for decades. The downside is that CA is so averse to anything that doing that in that state will never happen.
CA has been having blackout and brownout issues for a long time, FAR before EV's were even a twinkle in Elon's eye. They just need to generate more power and have needed to do that for decades. The downside is that CA is so averse to anything that doing that in that state will never happen.
Agreed. But since CA is the biggest EV market in the US and as more electricity issues are piling up to the existing issue, i expect something drastic to happen in the next several years.
Either it will affect charging or something needs to be approved to generate more electricity or both.
I personally think the days of cheap charging is numbered.
That would be a unique offering in the EV market for sure.
Interesting rhetoric at the end though - they are really emphasizing this "us vs. them" mentality (whoever "they" are). Statements like WE didn't change the rules to change, but they did. WE read their rules, studied their rules, found the grey areas.....(what does that even mean?) This isn't they EV THEY want you to have (again who is "they"?). They even spent time on a "9 second race to extinction" graphic I mean I get it, they are trying to sell EVs to a crowd who is definitely in the "They'll take my V8 from my cold dead hands" camp and they are trying really hard to make it OK to own one. It will be interesting to see what the reception will be once it's really available. Can't argue they are taking a different approach than most.
Yeah there were plenty of cringe moments. You can only work in "bad ass' as a cliché so many times before it becomes cheesy and overkill. BUT the demographic they're going after, albeit not us V8 heads on AcuraZine, tend to feed on the corny marketing crap. We'll see how the production vehicle compares to the concept car. I've still got a couple years anyway since my car only has 2,500 miles on it lol.
Yeah there were plenty of cringe moments. You can only work in "bad ass' as a cliché so many times before it becomes cheesy and overkill. BUT the demographic they're going after, albeit not us V8 heads on AcuraZine, tend to feed on the corny marketing crap. We'll see how the production vehicle compares to the concept car. I've still got a couple years anyway since my car only has 2,500 miles on it lol.
You didn't keep your last car for more than a few months.
Unless a full-EV option jumps back up again, I think my short list is a 2023 Volvo XC60 Extended Range PHEV or the upcoming 2023 RX 450h+ PHEV (seems to be close to 40 miles electric?). Any experiences with the Volvo (EV or PHEV)?
@civicdrivr Nothing to be scared of...old fears carried over from the 80s/90s. 2x Modern Dodges, 1x Modern Jeep, and 1x Alfa Romeo. Electronics were fine.
Probably not too far from that even today. 
- for me, it doesn't make sense buying a $45-55k car to save in fuel costs.