tracerit

We've all heard that German cars aren't as reliable as Japanese cars but has time changed where they're much closer now? I'd really like to get the BMW 335i coupe or Audi A5 3.2 but they're more expensive and I'll question both of their long term reliability as I plan on keeping my next car for +5 years.

Every car has their problems, but what made the German cars notorious for their low reliability?

mrdeeno

There's still a gap, but it's not as wide as people "perceive". And this perception is what gets Honda and Toyota past their problems of unreliability (ie tranny problems and sludge problems). It'll take several hiccups in a row before the perception starts to change, so when they have a problem, if they prevent more from happening in a short term, they'll be ok.

Reliability is a big thing when it comes to the appliance cars (accord, camry, etc.) because buyers in this market would settle for "vanilla" for better value and reliability. The premium segments, such as BMW/MB/Audi, not so much, which is why they still sell relatively well with average or even less-than-average reliability. But reliability on a whole has moved up in recent years through all makes, so I am willing to bet that any current BMW model is probably more reliable than my '01 CL-S (with the infamous tranny).

GreenMonster

If you're planning on buying new, and getting rid of the car before it hits 80K miles, then there is no difference reliability wise in my mind...

If you're going to buy a used BMW w/ 100K miles vs. a used Honda/Acura w/ 100K then that's a whole 'nother story

Crazy Bimmer

While i dont follow these charts much, it gives a decent starting point in terms of reliability.




mrdeeno covered it. Might as well just wait for the "my friends mothers aunts bmw was always in the shop" stories.

FiveLiterCheater

Wait a minute...why is Infiniti ranked last

Mokos23

better question, why is Buick ranked first??

chill_dog

GM's been improving their quality while no one was looking...I thought car-savvy people knew that .

hemhaw

I would be concerned about the cost of maintenance more than reliability. BMW offers all maintenance covered for a period of time, and it's a good thing, because everything cost at least double on these cars. And if you have a major problem, out of warranty, god help you.

I wouldn't own a BMW that wasn't covered by a warranty, unless it was a toy, or old enough that I could work on it myself.

Just my 2 cents.

mrdeeno

No, the list ends at the industry AVERAGE, not at the lowest ranked.

Crazy Bimmer

Get an extended warranty and you good to go.

I plan on getting one since we dont know how the N54 will be long term yet.

mrdeeno

Here is the full list...for those like JJaber06 that don't look at things in detail.

elessar

^ So it looks like BMW is moving up but Audi still has some catching up to do - they're below Ford, Chevy, Hyundai & Mitsu. Man, WTF happened to Nissan... tied with SATURN??

Edit: @ Land Rover.

wasupdog

iTrader: (2)

my friends mothers aunts bmw was always in the shop

elessar

neuronbob

mrdeeno

not only is Land Rover ranked last, but its ranked last by a BIG MARGIN!

AznX TL

because less people are buying them

Yumcha

@ Land Rover...

AznX TL

im surprised how high jaguar is, i always thought that was a high maintenance car.

carguyrob

I won't quote my friend's mother's aunt...but how about my brother, my neighbor and my co-worker. My brother with his 545i, my neighbor with his 530i and my co-worker with 335i (traded in a '02 M3 for it). There is a constant list of burned out Xenons, power windows that won't close, alternators that went bad, cup holders that snapped off, tail lights that burned (contant problem), etc, etc, etc. The three of them are constantly telling me of the next reason their BMWs are going in for service. Funny thing is that these cars are in two different states, but they all point out that it can sometimes take 2 weeks to get their car in for service because of the Service Department's backed up schedule. Hmmm...

I really love BMWs a lot, but hearing from these 3 friends/family members scares me away!

Crazy Bimmer

^ If your coworker thought it was that bad then he wouldnt have traded in his M3 for another BMW.

260 HP

iTrader: (3)

carguyrob, I have totally opposite stories.... My close friends have been owning multiple BMWs in the past, uh, maybe 10 years and I haven't heard of one, ONE, horror story like those your friends tell you.

One of them bought a 98 BMW 528i new. The car has 160k miles today and the only two problems he's ever had are cracked radiator and bad alternator. The car still runs great.

My other friend has had 98 and 99 740i/iL, 97 528i, 01 525iT, 95 M3. He bought all of them used with more than 100k on the odo except the 525iT. All of them have been reliable. The only big ticket item he had to pay are leaking radiator on one of the 740i and bad alternator on the 525iT.

My neighbor has an 02 M3 that he bought used. His car has 120k miles today and the only problem he had is the a leaking SMG line.

The list goes on and on. These are what made me switch from Japanese appliances (Acura, Honda, Toyota, Lexus) to BMWs. I sold my wife's Camry and bought an 01 M3 with 12k miles last summer. Later, I sold my 05 TL and bought an 01 740i with 45k miles. So far so good.

There's something different about driving a BMW. The experience can't be duplicated in other cars, even other German cars in the same class. These cars can be comfortable, but there's a very sporting nature in the feedbacks that are generally lacking in other cars.

If you have ///M cars, yes, the parts can be expensive. However, parts for the plain jane BMWs aren't too expensive. Dealer labor rate, however, can be a killer. But that's what independents are for.

If you (can afford to) buy new BMWs, I wouldn't even worry about reliability at all.

Mokos23

Dang the Germans are slacking??

I remember when I was a kid Ford's slogan was "Quality is job 1". Now, look at Ford and the other domestic brands, only now they are starting to catch up.

808havok_tsx

a collegue told me yesterday that one of our co-workers was going to lease a 2008 535 twin turbo... both of us thought the same thing: bmw+twin turbo=in the shop all the time. i think bmw's are awesome driving machines - when they work. if i had enough money to wipe my arse with, sure, i'd buy bmw's as daily drivers. otherwise, i'd need something more reliable and a car that has a nice blend of good road behavior, luxury items, decent looks, and fun to drive.

Trackruner228

iTrader: (1)

My dad has an Aviator and it has almost 70k with no problems and they are supposed to be problem cars.

Mokos23

i guess as long as you take good care of your car and bring it in for its scheduled maintenance and don't abuse the motor, the car will last a long time. i saw a POS Geo Tracker probably from the late 80s on the road the other day. Still works.

Crazy Bimmer

^ I have tons of friends with the same stories.

I think the difference is in what people think is reliable.

I personally could care less if my car had burnt bulbs, cracked cupholder, window issues, etc... thats all minor and can be easily fixed.

Is it annoying to visit the dealer for those things, sure but i wouldnt call it unreliable. Unreliable to me is a car that breaks down and leaves you stranded somewhere.

So yea, if small things going wrong bother you... then a BMW isnt for you.

Mokos23

how much really are german parts vs. japanese parts? that is the only thing turning me away from buying any german car is the high maintenance costs in a mercedes, bmw, or audi once the warranty expires vs an acura, lexus, and infiniti. is this just a stereotype or perception?

carguyrob

My co-worker traded his M3 in on a 335i because he is absolutely Bimmer obsessed. He makes excuses for all the problems and won't even consider another car no matter how great it is or how closely it competes against a BMW. He thinks a G35 is nothing like a 330i and a S2K is not in the same league as a Z4. Talking cars with him is like arguing with a drunk person!

Trackruner228

iTrader: (1)

+ My car has a couple little minor things wrong with it but mechanically it runs like great. My cruise control switch gets stuck sometimes, and my washer sprayer kind of stinks but it has always gotten me from A to B in the 2 years I had it.

260 HP

iTrader: (3)

Mokos23,

OEM front brake rotor for 01 740i is $75 each, from bavauto.com. You might be able to find one (OEM) cheaper elsewhere.

The same part for 06-08 Acura TL is $81.50 each from acuraoemparts.com.

Oil filters - 740i about $10-12 per. Honda $5-7. But BMW goes twice the distance for each oil change.

At the end, I think BMW parts prices are slightly higher than Honda's, but comparable to Toyota's or Lexus's. I don't know enough about Nissan/Infiniti parts prices.

Inspection I and II for BMW will cost more than an Acura's major service. Compared to Lexus major service costs, BMW Inspections cost roughly the same.

FastAcura

I'm on my second BMW and I have had less problems with two BMWs combined than I did when owning an Acura for a year.

GreenMonster

Ford actually turned them around a bit...

The Dougler

iTrader: (1)

at volkswagen

GIBSON6594

Funny how not one manufacturer has a number under 100

TommySalami

Buick's in first because only old people buy them, and so they all get grandma'd and driven slowly and never over 3k rpm etc.

nokiaman

I feel the exact same way. I've owned four BMWs(540i,328i,330i,335i) before my current E39 M5 and I've never had any major problems. After four different vehicles, I have gained trust in them and have learned not to necessary listen to other people. Sure I've had a couple of little problems here and there...A/C, a dead horn,burnt tail light,stuck sunroof driver's seat wearing out excessively, little engine malfunctions such as lights disfunction. But I've never had a catastrophic repair that made me walk away. Knock on wood.Maybe because I've never kept any of them past 80,000 kms. It's funny because whenever people ask what kind of car I drive and I say a BM, the first thing they ask is the reliability. I'm a little more tolerant I guess.260HP is right on the money as well. The driving experience is really something unique. And it's not even about how hard or how much you baby your car. I've always driven my cars hard. I still remember when I bought my MT E46 330i, I simply thought it was the best car in the world. I was in love. The thing to remember is that there all sacrifices to be made everywhere with everything. If you're willing to pay to play, then so be it. Expect a couple of things to go wrong, but don't buy a BMW with the mindset that it'll have to break down sometimes for sure. Hopefully you buy it more than the brand name as well, because it delivers so much more in terms of driving excitement. It's a fantastic car to own and drive.

picus

It's all anecdotal. I deal with a lot of car owners; from what I can tell BMW has as many or as few reliability issues (major) on a whole as most cars. Little things go wrong with every car. My Infiniti had more minor issues than either of my BMWs. It happens.

mclarenf3387

A LOT of issues customers have with their BMWs are in their head or made up so they can sue BMW for something stupid they did. That said, if you expect everything in a BMW to work all the time for as long as you own the car, go look elsewhere. They certainly won't strand you on the side of the road though for the most part.

bob j

I sold both BMW and Audis.BMW are average reliability.Audis are made by VW...need i say more? There junk.