Television: Top Gear (UK) News and Discussion Thread
Find beauty in dissonance
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,552
Likes: 1
From: Takoma Park, MD
Originally posted by JRock
Right and you certainly can't buy one new for $25k. Especially since most Nissan dealerships are trying to play a faux game of limited production to charge full or above sticker price.
Right and you certainly can't buy one new for $25k. Especially since most Nissan dealerships are trying to play a faux game of limited production to charge full or above sticker price.
Looks new to me?
Old timer
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 9,224
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From: .
They fail to list the mileage anywhere on there so who can tell?
I only know of CarMax as a used car dealership. If they sell new also, that's cool. Either way again, I don't know anyone who buys a base Z, and if you buy one from a real Nissan dealership they will be charging you at or close to MSRP, and over it likely for the track model.
Heck, back in October when I test drove one they tried to tell me oh we don't really give test drives often (acting as if letting me drive it was some special thing), and I was basically like nigga please, gimme da keys. I didn't get any lies like that when I test drove the Evo which IS actually limited production and harder to get test drives in.
They rarely have any Zs on the lot though so either they're selling well (or they cut back their numbers allotted for the winter since it's RWD.)
I only know of CarMax as a used car dealership. If they sell new also, that's cool. Either way again, I don't know anyone who buys a base Z, and if you buy one from a real Nissan dealership they will be charging you at or close to MSRP, and over it likely for the track model.
Heck, back in October when I test drove one they tried to tell me oh we don't really give test drives often (acting as if letting me drive it was some special thing), and I was basically like nigga please, gimme da keys. I didn't get any lies like that when I test drove the Evo which IS actually limited production and harder to get test drives in.
They rarely have any Zs on the lot though so either they're selling well (or they cut back their numbers allotted for the winter since it's RWD.)
Find beauty in dissonance
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,552
Likes: 1
From: Takoma Park, MD
Originally posted by JRock
They fail to list the mileage anywhere on there so who can tell?
I only know of CarMax as a used car dealership. If they sell new also, that's cool. Either way again, I don't know anyone who buys a base Z, and if you buy one from a real Nissan dealership they will be charging you at or close to MSRP, and over it likely for the track model.
They fail to list the mileage anywhere on there so who can tell?
I only know of CarMax as a used car dealership. If they sell new also, that's cool. Either way again, I don't know anyone who buys a base Z, and if you buy one from a real Nissan dealership they will be charging you at or close to MSRP, and over it likely for the track model.
Do a search on new cars. A track model sells 1800 off MSRP. Print it out, most local dealers will beat their price.
Suzuka Master
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,083
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles, CA
Originally posted by JRock
Right and you certainly can't buy one new for $25k. Especially since most Nissan dealerships are trying to play a faux game of limited production to charge full or above sticker price.
Right and you certainly can't buy one new for $25k. Especially since most Nissan dealerships are trying to play a faux game of limited production to charge full or above sticker price.
And in regards to Base models, they actually had 2 base models on the lot when I bought mine. They actually do have a decent amount of those models on sale across the country. A guy I met at the Auto-X track had a Base Z with a LSD from a wrecked Z. He was kicking ass at the track for a $26k car. Not bad at all
Banned
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: San Antonio, Tx
Well the cheapest one we have here is 29k.
http://www.gunnauto.com/search.php
http://www.gunnauto.com/search.php
Originally posted by cusdaddy
Actually if you shop around, you can get a Z for a decent amount under retail. If anyone pays above retail for a Z anymore, they got ripped off. I got my Z for $500 under retail back in February 2003 as well as a $200 Aero kit thrown in (which normally costs $520) - So I basically paid $830 under retail.
And in regards to Base models, they actually had 2 base models on the lot when I bought mine. They actually do have a decent amount of those models on sale across the country. A guy I met at the Auto-X track had a Base Z with a LSD from a wrecked Z. He was kicking ass at the track for a $26k car. Not bad at all
Actually if you shop around, you can get a Z for a decent amount under retail. If anyone pays above retail for a Z anymore, they got ripped off. I got my Z for $500 under retail back in February 2003 as well as a $200 Aero kit thrown in (which normally costs $520) - So I basically paid $830 under retail.
And in regards to Base models, they actually had 2 base models on the lot when I bought mine. They actually do have a decent amount of those models on sale across the country. A guy I met at the Auto-X track had a Base Z with a LSD from a wrecked Z. He was kicking ass at the track for a $26k car. Not bad at all
Suzuka Master
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,083
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From: Los Angeles, CA
Originally posted by SilverBullet
Well the cheapest one we have here is 29k.
http://www.gunnauto.com/search.php
Well the cheapest one we have here is 29k.
http://www.gunnauto.com/search.php
Race Director
Joined: Dec 2001
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Originally posted by scalbert
Razor sharp does not denominate road holding prowess. It is about the feel and not ultimate grip. Many cars are capable of being driven fast but require more concentration to do so.
Take the Viper versus Z06 comparison. The Viper is ultimately faster with a competent driver but the Z06 is easier to go fast in and may turn better lap times with a marginal driver.
The Z does handle well but does sacrifice around town comfort not to mention interior room. The M3 is comfortable around town with a full trunk and a back seat. These are just variations in design intentions and cost factors which bring up another point:
Are you talking about compromises or design intentions?? You end up mentioning the CL in this thread which has no relevance to the CL. I assume to make a point?? What are those compromises?? Did you purchase the CL with the illusion that it would provide what you found in the Z?? IMO, the CL does great at what it was intended to do; but not outside of that and I would characterize the limitations as design intentions. The 350Z is also a great car for what it was intended. But there is no real common ground between the two cars.
Razor sharp does not denominate road holding prowess. It is about the feel and not ultimate grip. Many cars are capable of being driven fast but require more concentration to do so.
Take the Viper versus Z06 comparison. The Viper is ultimately faster with a competent driver but the Z06 is easier to go fast in and may turn better lap times with a marginal driver.
The Z does handle well but does sacrifice around town comfort not to mention interior room. The M3 is comfortable around town with a full trunk and a back seat. These are just variations in design intentions and cost factors which bring up another point:
Are you talking about compromises or design intentions?? You end up mentioning the CL in this thread which has no relevance to the CL. I assume to make a point?? What are those compromises?? Did you purchase the CL with the illusion that it would provide what you found in the Z?? IMO, the CL does great at what it was intended to do; but not outside of that and I would characterize the limitations as design intentions. The 350Z is also a great car for what it was intended. But there is no real common ground between the two cars.
I agree the Z does not compete with the m3 on interior room and ride comfort. The M3 was designed to be a luxury performance coupe that can haul around 4 people whereas the Z was intended to be more of a pure no-frills sports car. Easier to strike a good balance between performance and every day driveability when you spend an arm and a leg building it, as in the case of the m3. The Z does what it was intended to do very well. If you were looking for a family hauler AND a sports car and you chose the Z, I would then agree you compromised some of your needs by buying the Z. If you are looking for a sports car ONLY then the Z has very few compromises. That was my point.
I brought up the CL because for me the car was a perfect example of compromise(in 2001) and being that many here are familiar with the car, it would help to prove my point. The car wasn't intended to be a full on luxury car, or a full on sports car. I wanted a full on sports car at the time, and if you go back to 2001 when I purchased my CL, how many new powerful sports cars were available for under 30k? Answer: not much unless you went used, save the s2000 which didnt have enough low end tourque for me. A used Supra TT at the time was commanding more than 40k. I compromised by buying the CL. The CL had the engine I wanted, and handled fairly well in stock form...but it was not exactly what I wanted. Many on this forum chose the CL and felt the same way. That's why they spend so much money modding to make their cars more sports car like. The Z is exactly what I have been waiting for. One year after purchase, and I still look forward to getting behind the wheel.
Suzuka Master
Joined: Sep 2000
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From: Woodstock, GA
Originally posted by zeroday
'Razor sharp' has no universally accepted definition Scalbert; it's meaning depends on the context in which it is used. In this case,
'Razor sharp' has no universally accepted definition Scalbert; it's meaning depends on the context in which it is used. In this case,
I could care less about the review as the car holds no interest for me as I do need the additional seats and room from time to time. But it really should be taken with a grain of salt; who cares what a single journalist thinks as his desires and priorities in what makes a good sports car may be very different than others.
Suzuka Master
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,083
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From: Los Angeles, CA
Originally posted by zeroday
'Razor sharp' has no universally accepted definition Scalbert; it's meaning depends on the context in which it is used. In this case, I felt my interpretation of of it's use based on the context in which it was presented was accurate. YMMV. I personally don't feel the Z requires all that much more concentration to drive than my 91 integra 5 speed. It's a very forgiving car, especially when equipped with VDC.
I agree the Z does not compete with the m3 on interior room and ride comfort. The M3 was designed to be a luxury performance coupe that can haul around 4 people whereas the Z was intended to be more of a pure no-frills sports car. Easier to strike a good balance between performance and every day driveability when you spend an arm and a leg building it, as in the case of the m3. The Z does what it was intended to do very well. If you were looking for a family hauler AND a sports car and you chose the Z, I would then agree you compromised some of your needs by buying the Z. If you are looking for a sports car ONLY then the Z has very few compromises. That was my point.
I brought up the CL because for me the car was a perfect example of compromise(in 2001) and being that many here are familiar with the car, it would help to prove my point. The car wasn't intended to be a full on luxury car, or a full on sports car. I wanted a full on sports car at the time, and if you go back to 2001 when I purchased my CL, how many new powerful sports cars were available for under 30k? Answer: not much unless you went used, save the s2000 which didnt have enough low end tourque for me. A used Supra TT at the time was commanding more than 40k. I compromised by buying the CL. The CL had the engine I wanted, and handled fairly well in stock form...but it was not exactly what I wanted. Many on this forum chose the CL and felt the same way. That's why they spend so much money modding to make their cars more sports car like. The Z is exactly what I have been waiting for. One year after purchase, and I still look forward to getting behind the wheel.
'Razor sharp' has no universally accepted definition Scalbert; it's meaning depends on the context in which it is used. In this case, I felt my interpretation of of it's use based on the context in which it was presented was accurate. YMMV. I personally don't feel the Z requires all that much more concentration to drive than my 91 integra 5 speed. It's a very forgiving car, especially when equipped with VDC.
I agree the Z does not compete with the m3 on interior room and ride comfort. The M3 was designed to be a luxury performance coupe that can haul around 4 people whereas the Z was intended to be more of a pure no-frills sports car. Easier to strike a good balance between performance and every day driveability when you spend an arm and a leg building it, as in the case of the m3. The Z does what it was intended to do very well. If you were looking for a family hauler AND a sports car and you chose the Z, I would then agree you compromised some of your needs by buying the Z. If you are looking for a sports car ONLY then the Z has very few compromises. That was my point.
I brought up the CL because for me the car was a perfect example of compromise(in 2001) and being that many here are familiar with the car, it would help to prove my point. The car wasn't intended to be a full on luxury car, or a full on sports car. I wanted a full on sports car at the time, and if you go back to 2001 when I purchased my CL, how many new powerful sports cars were available for under 30k? Answer: not much unless you went used, save the s2000 which didnt have enough low end tourque for me. A used Supra TT at the time was commanding more than 40k. I compromised by buying the CL. The CL had the engine I wanted, and handled fairly well in stock form...but it was not exactly what I wanted. Many on this forum chose the CL and felt the same way. That's why they spend so much money modding to make their cars more sports car like. The Z is exactly what I have been waiting for. One year after purchase, and I still look forward to getting behind the wheel.
I could not have said it better myself. I feel exactly the same way.
Originally posted by scalbert
Very true, nor did I attempt to define what it was exactly except for a general feel (what that feel is has not been defined). I was pointing out that although something may not be "Razor Sharp" to one person does not mean the car is not capable of handling well.
I could care less about the review as the car holds no interest for me as I do need the additional seats and room from time to time. But it really should be taken with a grain of salt; who cares what a single journalist thinks as his desires and priorities in what makes a good sports car may be very different than others.
Very true, nor did I attempt to define what it was exactly except for a general feel (what that feel is has not been defined). I was pointing out that although something may not be "Razor Sharp" to one person does not mean the car is not capable of handling well.
I could care less about the review as the car holds no interest for me as I do need the additional seats and room from time to time. But it really should be taken with a grain of salt; who cares what a single journalist thinks as his desires and priorities in what makes a good sports car may be very different than others.
too... Very well said and very true.
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 194
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From: Washington
"There's the noise...a sort of wearisome drone" = 
Personally I think the old air cooled 911's sounded much worse than the Z too.
Oh yeah the car's plenty agile and can do "naught to sixty" in much less than six seconds.
Personally I think the old air cooled 911's sounded much worse than the Z too.
Oh yeah the car's plenty agile and can do "naught to sixty" in much less than six seconds.
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 194
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From: Washington
Originally posted by danny25
wtf is he calling it a "zed" for?
dumb ass limeys
wtf is he calling it a "zed" for?
dumb ass limeys
"ZED" & "naught to sixty" Would it kill him to say "Z" and ZERO to 60? Dumbass brits have a tough time saying "Zee" I guess.
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 194
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From: Washington
Originally posted by CLSter
Here we go. He said Americans seem to prefer big couches. Can you really disagree? Do the Europeans have a love affair with or the ability to afford the gas for H2s, Suburbans, Armadas and the like? No. Europeans drive smaller, more efficient cars out of necessity. We in the US have more space, cheaper gas and "bigger is better" mentality and the monster cars/trucks/SUVs are MUCH bigger sellers here.
Here we go. He said Americans seem to prefer big couches. Can you really disagree? Do the Europeans have a love affair with or the ability to afford the gas for H2s, Suburbans, Armadas and the like? No. Europeans drive smaller, more efficient cars out of necessity. We in the US have more space, cheaper gas and "bigger is better" mentality and the monster cars/trucks/SUVs are MUCH bigger sellers here.
Banned
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 75
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From: midwest
Originally posted by Maximized
If you watch him drive, you can see how much of an amatuer Jeremy is.
If you watch him drive, you can see how much of an amatuer Jeremy is.
Banned
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 75
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From: midwest
Originally posted by fahoumh
Jeremy Clarkson is a horse's ass. The asshat ragged on a Lotus' handling then the one of the guys who worked on the car shut his fucking fat face up when he showed him how to drive the car. And that waste of carbon actually called the R34 GTR a "rancid porkchop". What an arrogant, self-absorbed piece of shit. I would like nothing more than to put my fist through the back of his head.
Jeremy Clarkson is a horse's ass. The asshat ragged on a Lotus' handling then the one of the guys who worked on the car shut his fucking fat face up when he showed him how to drive the car. And that waste of carbon actually called the R34 GTR a "rancid porkchop". What an arrogant, self-absorbed piece of shit. I would like nothing more than to put my fist through the back of his head.
Banned
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 75
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From: midwest
Originally posted by JRock
Also in general I find Jeremy Clarkson to be a horses ass as well. Tiff's ten times the man (and driver) he is.
That's why I was surprised by Clarkson's 350Z review which seemed to be pretty honest. Anyone can fawn over a car. Very few reviews ever tell you how they really feel. And all the fanboys will rant and rave either way.
Tiff's review is nice but all it did was show it going up and down this one road while he talked about how he likes it without getting into more descriptive and technical details.
Also in general I find Jeremy Clarkson to be a horses ass as well. Tiff's ten times the man (and driver) he is.
That's why I was surprised by Clarkson's 350Z review which seemed to be pretty honest. Anyone can fawn over a car. Very few reviews ever tell you how they really feel. And all the fanboys will rant and rave either way.
Tiff's review is nice but all it did was show it going up and down this one road while he talked about how he likes it without getting into more descriptive and technical details.
.
Suzuka Master
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Chicago Suburbs
Originally posted by goat
I'm surpposing you can drive a 700hp pagani zonda around a road course faster than him right? talk is cheap, thats why you have so many more spectators than players in any sport.
I'm surpposing you can drive a 700hp pagani zonda around a road course faster than him right? talk is cheap, thats why you have so many more spectators than players in any sport.
Instructor
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 246
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From: Mclean VA
Thats was mean. I think Tiff was possessed when he did that review. He was hating the car from its roots let alone the 350Z. Even if the things he said about the car was right, he could have did a better job showing it, but not like this.... Man that review will scare people away from the 350 Z since Tiff is one of the best people who review cars IMO.
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: Everywhere
Top Gear is one of the best magazines out there period, Motor Trend etc has nothing on it. Jeremy Clarkson ownsz all car writers.
I think the guy stated his opinion, which many previous Z owners have mentioned. Like BMW, it seems many of these new Nissan owners are "new" to Nissan.
If you read the reader's letters in USA based car magzines when the Z was tested, 80% pretty much bashed the car. However, they seem like previous Nissan/Z owners.
People new to the Z think it's the best thing since sliced bread.
Since the Z shares parts with the G35/FX and probably new M, that is why it is heavier than a Corvette.
Overall, the Z has gotten pretty positve reviews everywhere since it's re-introduction, and Nissan is selling 30k of them a year, so let this guy have his review (igonore it).
I think the guy stated his opinion, which many previous Z owners have mentioned. Like BMW, it seems many of these new Nissan owners are "new" to Nissan.
If you read the reader's letters in USA based car magzines when the Z was tested, 80% pretty much bashed the car. However, they seem like previous Nissan/Z owners.
People new to the Z think it's the best thing since sliced bread.
Since the Z shares parts with the G35/FX and probably new M, that is why it is heavier than a Corvette.
Overall, the Z has gotten pretty positve reviews everywhere since it's re-introduction, and Nissan is selling 30k of them a year, so let this guy have his review (igonore it).
Shogun Assassin
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 3,395
Likes: 2
From: Kitchener, Ontario
Originally posted by goat
he's not very pro nissan! however he did like the skyline a lot. I saw his review, and he was in love with the car. what are you talking about?
he's not very pro nissan! however he did like the skyline a lot. I saw his review, and he was in love with the car. what are you talking about?
Senior Moderator
Joined: Jan 2001
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From: Chicago Burbs
Top gear of the Porsche Carrera GT
Banned
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 168
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From: da hood
Re: Top gear of the Porsche Carrera GT
Originally posted by Crazy Sellout
http://www.sleepy-fish.com/sleepy/To...rera_GT_hi.wmv
Sorry if its a repost
either way....
http://www.sleepy-fish.com/sleepy/To...rera_GT_hi.wmv
Sorry if its a repost
either way....
