Saintor

You finally got it.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

not this crap again

have you ever driven B8 A4 2.0T? it doesn't feel like 4 cyl at all. it has power of 6 cyl with endless potential and gets gas mileage of 4 cyl.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

Well you didn't get it.

Saintor

Totally false. Yes I did, it sounds like a Camry and you have no clue.

I love pointless hairsplitters. Please continue.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

of course you drive 335.

its just one stupid magazine comparo alright? get over it. who cares really.

this comparo doesn't mean that S4 is better your 335 alright?

and your last statement is just

scuc

I personally did pay premium for my S4, but I love every second of driving it. I was considering a new 6spd SH-AWD TL that I would have gotten below invoice, but I just couldn't get myself to make the right financial decision. So far, I have no regrets whatsoever. I got the Audi Drive Select, and I feel that I paid for 4 different cars in one. I love it. I can't stop smiling whenever I'm behind the wheel.

I never considered the 335, just because I see a bunch of them out on the road and I didn't want to be part of that crowd. I'm sure it's a superb car, it's just not my cup of tea.

Bottom line, yes, I could have gotten another car in the comparison for a cheaper, but it definitely wouldn't have been the same as driving the S4. I'm happy with my car. No issues so far (knock on wood).

Saintor

This is the SUBJECT of this thread.

Senneca01

He doesn't drive a 335i, he drives a 323i, one of the cheapest and lowest 3-Series a person can buy. Ask him why he didn't bother to correct you.

Saintor

Ah! Txs for proving my point. Exactly because jerks like you have a disdain for it and it is not the subject here... so why bother. It could have been a 330i too. If you have a problem, I *don't.*

Costco

Who cares. Anyone who says x brand > * in every single post is not to be taken seriously, let alone relied upon to input worthwhile information. Every single one of his posts is mostly opinion and matter of personal taste, yet he says it matter of factly. Sounds a lot like msl82 and Manual Transmission, except with BMW.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

I think it's a good idea not to make a thread with these magazine comparos.

NJ SHAWD

Can't we all embrace the ugliness...ahh

F23A4

Magazine comparos are fair game for discussion, particularly in a Car Talk forum. But we just need to keep them perspective. Honestly, there's no inferior car within this bunch. Rather, varying degrees of good cars and personal preferences.

F23A4

Although I still think they're overpriced, there's no doubt that the current A4 catches my eye by far more than any of its competitors. Like most of the Audi lineup, Audi designers are really hitting them out of the park.

Never Summer

I completely agree with that. Having said that, I still find the B7 A4 much more attractive than the B8, I liked the back end of the car 10x better. One of these days I'll have my B7 A4 in Brilliant Red...

mrmako

You are correct. I can not go to my local Honda Verno dealer and pick one of these up. The car tier for Honda goes like this:

Legend (RL)
Inspire (same as the USDM Accord, but starting at $35K, V6 only)
Accord (TSX), also Euro R trim
Civic (also in R trim w/Mugen accessories)
Insight

FTR, you can not buy a TL here. It does not exist.

scuc

The B8 styling is defintely eye catching, the only minor annoyance is that there isn't much aesthetic differentiation between the A4 and S4, aside from the obvious aluminum side mirrors, badging, and quad tip exhaust. In previous model years the S4 styling was a bit more aggressive and there were significant differences in body styling between the A4s and S4s.

Either way, I think the car is beautiful (in my biased opinion of course). I love the LED strip in the headlights. Ok, enough rambling.

For what it's worth, I think that the Acura's navi/audio system comes very close to Audi quality, and actually has some features that the Audi MMI system lacks. One thing, for example, is that although my car has bluetooth pairing for my phone, it doesn't have the ability to play music through a2dp which I would use to stream pandora. Audi also requires you to buy different adapters for each audio medium (i.e. ipod adapter, 3.5 mm jack, usb) where Acura's system already comes with all of those.

One thing about BMW that I've noticed is that their interiors need to be updated pretty badly. It seems like they've had the same interior styling for a while.

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

^ man where are the pictures???

maybe get your new car thread going? any plan on mods?

cp3117

Yes this has already been proven and tested with similar 6cyl models against the B8 A4 2.0T. In most tests the 2.0T is very equal to its 6cyl competitors and in AT trim I have even seen it equal or outperform the TL SHAWD 5AT in most areas except for top end power. Obviously because the TL has almost twice the displacement of the 2.0T

Thanks for the input George as its always nice to hear from people that actually attend these events and you basically re-iterated what Jeff said over at TOV when this was discussed after the Honda event.

I could see your point about this being risky if they didnt know the outcome before hand but they obviously had done extensive testing before hand on different tracks to make sure that wouldnt happen. I have been to marketing events like this before when I was in the automotive industry and some people find it insulting when a manufacture purposely sets up a test so that its product cant fail then brings in credible journalists to try and make the test look credible. Thankfully these same journalists like R&T conducted this similar test independently and brought a more true and less bias result.

Actually that wasnt really my point. My comparisons are about the vehicles being equally equipped including things like Navi etc. The Audi premium package includes things that others dont but also doesnt have features that the others may have. The Prestige pkg has basically the same features as the others models plus features they dont have giving some reason as to why its more.

Many people here are looking at things like does each car have power windows, Nav, Xenon headlights, dual zone climate control, etc etc etc (i could go on for pages). What they arent looking at is that the S4 offers all those things but more to each item...ie: power windows but auto up/dn on ALL windows, better Nav with 3D and more memory, Xenon headlights but with auto leveling, tri-zone climate control rather than dual...and on and on. Even the S4 itself has more appearance differences than the others with different seats, front/rear bumpers, grill, aluminum mirrors, door sills, badging etc.

Some here want to make you think that all these things are only worth about $1k difference to the price of the car but any common sense can see that just the small sample of items i listed exceeds that.....weather or not someone wants to believe those features are worth that is a totally different debate, but the bottom line is that there are more little features so in the end you will logically end up paying more.

scuc

Yah I should start a new thread, but here are a couple of pics:




Dyno results:


The car dyno'd higher than all but one of the RS4's they've dyno'd over there. I was pretty happy. I tested out new downpipes for them and it bumped the max awhp to 330 and awtq to 319.

As far as mods, so far I've only done exterior aesthetic mods (LED license plate lights, HOEN yellow fogs, Black Optik grill). I'm waiting on APR or A.W.E. to release a tune for the car. I will be placing an order for Stasis lowering springs and sway bar pretty soon. I'll probably go with an exhaust eventually as well. There're so many things I wanna do to the car, just need to find the time and the money.

/end thread hijack

JS + XES

iTrader: (1)

.......

you need to make a new thread right now.

majin ssj eric

Your S4 is badass for sure!!! Does the steering feel artificial in any way. When I drove the S5 that was my main complaint (that and the wierd clutch feel). Otherwise it was the sweetest car I have ever driven....

scuc

Thanks for the compliment.

About the steering...I got the Audi Drive Select option which includes the new rear sport diff (definitely a must). What that option does is allows you to select between Comfort, Auto, Dynamic, or Individual modes. Each mode affects the throttle response, steering, suspension, and sport diff. Comfort is just what it says, comfortable. The steering, the ride, everything mentioned, is very soft. Auto changes the settings according to how you're driving the car. Dynamic sets everything to a more sporty setting; stiffer suspension, more sensitive accel pedal, less granny-ing on the sport diff, and the steering gets pretty tight and responsive. I have mine set to individual mode, where you can customize each setting individually. For example, I have mine set to:
Engine: Dynamic
Suspension: Auto
Steering: Dynamic
Sprt Diff: Auto

so I feel that the steering is just perfect. For me at least. I'm not sure if the S5 you drove had that feature, but it definitely makes a huge difference.

winstrolvtec

If you want to call the old 6MT press event biased that is one thing but the old test results themselves were not biased it's just that the TL is now compared to the updated versions of those other cars. It's really not that complicated. At the time of testing the preproduction 6MT for actual production, Acura could only use the competitive set vehicles that were available to them at that time. The only model that is a new gen and not a minor upgrade is the S4 so it's no coincidence that the TL still lapped faster than the G and 3 but I think everyone could assume enough even back then that a new gen S4 would be much better than the previous one.

There are other things to consider for all the vehicles as well like if they should have all been AWD and the track itself and how it could affect each car individually as well as the driver or drivers themselves. There is no mention of how the track testing was conducted and it's funny to me that you think a magazine, whose other job is to sell add space, can't be biased at all.

I think everyone understands that is a possibility but it's largely subjective, plus you are not considering the same for the other models. I cant speak for them all off the top of my head but I know the TL has traffic and weather, solar sensing HVAC, and includes ipod and aux cables and accessories (which can amount to $500), amongst several other things. There are lists of differences among all the models. Of course these types of items are going to vary. Some of the same features but in different cars can be better in one regard and worse in another and vice versa but it doesn't mean that you should assume by paying more it necessarily has to be better or that it even costs the manufacturer more. We know German brands will just cost more in the first place regardless of anything actually put into the car, due to tariffs and their import and foreign labor costs as well as inflation from the exchange rate alone.

These things you mention exist on all levels within all cars. You also get a larger car with more passenger and cargo volume with a better resale and reliability in either of the Japanese products in the review which commands a premium as well but is cheaper yet no one brought that up because it's on the subjective side of things as well and it has nothing to do with an evenly equipped and priced vehicle comparison, in an objective sense.

The truth is you will never see a real equally equipped comparo because it's not possible. There are too many other things to consider. IMO you should at least compare as best, and as best equipped, as possible first and then make individually based compensations for things like features that you may feel are superior, what is a larger or smaller vehicle, faster, level of refinement, maintenance costs, reliability, resale, safety, crash testing, etc, etc.

I can understand your point around the S4, there is indeed extra money that goes into certain things within the car which is up to the consumer to decide if it's worth and the same thing can be said of the BMW but really all of these cars when you consider all aspects of a vehicle and not just material content. Still, an evenly matched comparison of the four cars in the R&T review with near identical pricing and best matched features and equipment levels as priorities, does not include the S4 or 335, only the 328xi and A4.

That is the sole point around my discussions and it's hard to disagree with. I am not trying to take anything away from any of the cars, I do think the S4 is a great car and I think it is the car I would most likely want to "drive" over the rest (if you know what I mean) but it is not the car I want to own for various reasons, many of which are just my own.

fsttyms1

I love teh B8. I need to see if i fit in it. Im afraid at 6'5" i wont come close.

Shift_Acura

U can say that about A LOT of cars these days. For example, the Altima and Maxima are "japenese" but they are designed, built and sold exclusively in North America

Shift_Acura

This^

U get what you pay for. Period.

NJ SHAWD

or with the TL, you get more

majin ssj eric

I'll take less next time around though, please Acura....

NJ SHAWD

Embrace the ugliness

fsttyms1

But is the more actually less. Its all subjective to the person looking at it.

NJ SHAWD

I didn't say more of what. How can you correct that?

Pete2010

True with almost anything. But ask 10 people, get 10 different answers...

F23A4

I'll face to face with that ugliness as the wife and I price an RDX today.

SSFTSX

If Acura is smarter they could built 305 bhp 6MT sport suspension SH-AWD TSX.
i am pretty sure it will be pretty close to S4 in handling, slolam and alteast matches G37/335 in straight line performance. TSX has superb aerodynamic efficiency at higher speed.
TL is simply too big for this comparision and is 3 seconds slower on 0-120mph timing. so in one performance parameter it came 4th and that is the place it got in ranking chart. no matter how much closer it was in pulling gs to S4 or excellent interior, comfort compared to 335/G37.

winstrolvtec

^Looking at the transitioning trend in the sedan lineup it appears that Acura is working in that direction. It's been said that the current TSX has holes in it's subframe to support AWD or SH-AWD. So at some point this is in Acura's plan whether we see it at a late MMC or more likely the next gen. They are currently expanding the TSX model variants and I am sure we can expect a coupe somewhere in there later. They also have a sub entry model in the works and a rumored full sized sedan flagship. Acura has a good plan and direction it's just going to take a little more time to get there.

scuc

I can't wait to see when Acura reaches the teir 1 status they've been aiming for. Do they offer a smart key option for the TSX yet? I think Acura dropped the ball on that.

jiggaman

sign me up please!

SSFTSX

They can built car that is 99% closer to S4 at 70% price with better long term reliablity and lower maintainance. Sh-AWD pwered TSX should get closer to 0.96g. and sub 5 sec time for 0-60 from 3.7L. 6MT.
surpassing BMW 335/G37 based on raw numbers. ZDX/MDX/RL/TL are too big for sport applications
they can certainly lower the car by half an inch to an inch to make it equal to BMW coupe height.
.

Honda offers push button start in Euro Civic. It is not big deal. even Euro Accord Active cruise control that beeps when cars pass on side. kind like blind spot monitoring.
they can certainly improve on it by providing 360 degree radar coverage so even closing in from behind so it can accelerate from it. it is great when u have these systems so u can use other functions on dashboard.

Saintor

Except that they don't have the guts to build it. Not mentioning that the V6 TSX is already pricey. I hate the way Honda is managed recently. They were on a roll from 1999 to 2005, then drifting on a slope. Soon they will be spanked by Hyundai if they continue this way. Weak.