Possible noob question on tires
#1
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Possible noob question on tires
So I took my car in for a free rotation and the guy told me that they cannot do a tire rotation for me because my front two wheels are too worn down. They insisted that the rear wheels need more traction (despite how my car is FWD..) since it'd be easier to maneuver if I blow a tire or something. However I've always been under the impression of... the exact opposite. You'd WANT the more worn down tires in the rear. Obviously since the front wheels carry more of a load + again my car is FWD.
is he right or can I just rotate my own tires and find a new shop?
is he right or can I just rotate my own tires and find a new shop?
#2
Moderator
iTrader: (3)
I've always been under the impression that the better condition tires go in the back to prevent fishtailing
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#3
Senior Moderator
My Mom experienced a similar situation recently at Discount Tire except with two new tires. Many tire shops have adopted a policy of putting the two tires with most tread on the rear and refusing to rotate tires worn to a certain extent regardless of drive train. One of the members here is a Discount Tire Manager, so I PM'ed with a similar inquiry. On a FWD, won't the front tires wear faster? If the rear end breaks free, don't I want the front to pull me out? Won't understeer be minimized by increased traction? His answer was, "Essentially, yes. All true points." However, Costco was recently in a multi-million dollar lawsuit after putting two new tires on the front of a vehicle and placing old tires on the rear. (Can't find a link.) I suppose someone had new tires on the front, had inferior driving skills, spun out in a low traction condition, and serious damage incurred. Because of this, companies are reducing liability by refusing to place worn tires on the rear. Discount will rotate a tire with at least 5/32 to the rear but no less. It is all in an effort to reduce hydroplaning (and consequently liability) as much as possible.
If you are a capable driver, all maneuvering in a FWD can be controlled with good tires up front. However, the general public isn't that, so you are affected by their lack of capability.
If you are a capable driver, all maneuvering in a FWD can be controlled with good tires up front. However, the general public isn't that, so you are affected by their lack of capability.
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#4
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Ahh, I see now. Seems like kind of an in-between in regards to liability vs legitimacy. I was hoping I wouldn't have to get new tires so soon..
#5
It's a liability thing, your alignment will be screwed up with bald tires in the front.
#6
Honda+Blue=My garage
More grip in the rear (new tires) = understeer (which our cars have in abundance and is considered safer)
Less grip in rear (new tires on front) = oversteer, probably pretty balance with our cars, but generally more difficult for drivers to handle
Like a 55 mph speed limit, it was made for the least common denominator, the bad driver
#7
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Since I don't feel like making a new thread and since we're on the subject of tires...
Has anyone ever bought a set of Proxes 4? Are they supposed to go bad after 26-28k miles?
Has anyone ever bought a set of Proxes 4? Are they supposed to go bad after 26-28k miles?
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#8
I drive a Subata.
iTrader: (1)
Just get new tires!
#10
So I took my car in for a free rotation and the guy told me that they cannot do a tire rotation for me because my front two wheels are too worn down. They insisted that the rear wheels need more traction (despite how my car is FWD..) since it'd be easier to maneuver if I blow a tire or something. However I've always been under the impression of... the exact opposite. You'd WANT the more worn down tires in the rear. Obviously since the front wheels carry more of a load + again my car is FWD.
is he right or can I just rotate my own tires and find a new shop?
is he right or can I just rotate my own tires and find a new shop?
From http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tirete....jsp?techid=52
Where to Install New Pairs of Tires?
Most vehicles are equipped with the same size tire at every wheel position. Ideally all of these tires should also be of the same type and design, have the same tread depth and be inflated to the pressures specified by the vehicle placard or owner's manual. This combination best retains the handling balance engineered into the vehicle by its manufacturer.
However due to a front-wheel drive vehicle’s front tires' responsibility for transmitting acceleration, steering and most of the braking forces, it's normal for them to wear faster than rear tires. Therefore if the tires aren't rotated on a regular basis, tires will typically wear out in pairs rather than in sets. And if the tires aren't rotated at all, it's likely that the rear tires will still have about 1/2 of their original tread depth remaining when the front tires are completely worn out.
Intuition suggests that since the front tires wore out first and because there is still about half of the tread remaining on the rear tires, the new tires should be installed on the front axle. This will provide more wet and wintry traction; and by the time the front tires have worn out for the second time, the rear tires will be worn out, too. However in this case, intuition isn't right...and following it can be downright dangerous.
When tires are replaced in pairs in situations like these, the new tires should always be installed on the rear axle and the partially worn tires moved to the front. New tires on the rear axle help the driver more easily maintain control on wet roads since deeper treaded tires are better at resisting hydroplaning.
Hydroplaning occurs when the tire cannot process enough water through its tread design to maintain effective contact with the road. In moderate to heavy rain, water can pool up in road ruts, depressions and pockets adjacent to pavement expansion joints. At higher speeds, the standing water often found in these pools challenges a tire's ability to resist hydroplaning.
Exactly when hydroplaning occurs is the result of a combination of elements including water depth, vehicle weight and speed, as well as tire size, air pressure, tread design and tread depth. A lightweight vehicle with wide, worn, underinflated tires in a heavy downpour will hydroplane at lower speeds than a heavyweight vehicle equipped with new, narrow, properly inflated tires in drizzling rain.
If the front tires have significantly less tread depth than the rear tires, the front tires will begin to hydroplane and lose traction on wet roads before the rear tires. While this will cause the vehicle to understeer (the vehicle wants to continue driving straight ahead), understeer is relatively easy to control because releasing the gas pedal will slow the vehicle and help the driver maintain control.
However, if the front tires have significantly more tread depth than the rear tires, the rear tires will begin to hydroplane and lose traction on wet roads before the fronts. This will cause the vehicle to oversteer (the vehicle will want to spin). Oversteer is far more difficult to control and in addition to the initial distress felt when the rear of the car starts sliding, quickly releasing the gas pedal in an attempt to slow down may actually make it more difficult for the driver to regain control, possibly causing a complete spinout.
Most vehicles are equipped with the same size tire at every wheel position. Ideally all of these tires should also be of the same type and design, have the same tread depth and be inflated to the pressures specified by the vehicle placard or owner's manual. This combination best retains the handling balance engineered into the vehicle by its manufacturer.
However due to a front-wheel drive vehicle’s front tires' responsibility for transmitting acceleration, steering and most of the braking forces, it's normal for them to wear faster than rear tires. Therefore if the tires aren't rotated on a regular basis, tires will typically wear out in pairs rather than in sets. And if the tires aren't rotated at all, it's likely that the rear tires will still have about 1/2 of their original tread depth remaining when the front tires are completely worn out.
Intuition suggests that since the front tires wore out first and because there is still about half of the tread remaining on the rear tires, the new tires should be installed on the front axle. This will provide more wet and wintry traction; and by the time the front tires have worn out for the second time, the rear tires will be worn out, too. However in this case, intuition isn't right...and following it can be downright dangerous.
When tires are replaced in pairs in situations like these, the new tires should always be installed on the rear axle and the partially worn tires moved to the front. New tires on the rear axle help the driver more easily maintain control on wet roads since deeper treaded tires are better at resisting hydroplaning.
Hydroplaning occurs when the tire cannot process enough water through its tread design to maintain effective contact with the road. In moderate to heavy rain, water can pool up in road ruts, depressions and pockets adjacent to pavement expansion joints. At higher speeds, the standing water often found in these pools challenges a tire's ability to resist hydroplaning.
Exactly when hydroplaning occurs is the result of a combination of elements including water depth, vehicle weight and speed, as well as tire size, air pressure, tread design and tread depth. A lightweight vehicle with wide, worn, underinflated tires in a heavy downpour will hydroplane at lower speeds than a heavyweight vehicle equipped with new, narrow, properly inflated tires in drizzling rain.
If the front tires have significantly less tread depth than the rear tires, the front tires will begin to hydroplane and lose traction on wet roads before the rear tires. While this will cause the vehicle to understeer (the vehicle wants to continue driving straight ahead), understeer is relatively easy to control because releasing the gas pedal will slow the vehicle and help the driver maintain control.
However, if the front tires have significantly more tread depth than the rear tires, the rear tires will begin to hydroplane and lose traction on wet roads before the fronts. This will cause the vehicle to oversteer (the vehicle will want to spin). Oversteer is far more difficult to control and in addition to the initial distress felt when the rear of the car starts sliding, quickly releasing the gas pedal in an attempt to slow down may actually make it more difficult for the driver to regain control, possibly causing a complete spinout.
Basically, whatever the UTQG rating is, if you add two 0's to the end you get a rough/general idea of how many miles the tires will last (for a normal driver).
Last edited by AZuser; 04-09-2014 at 07:42 PM.
#11
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I have Proxes 4's on my S2000. I've got 15,000 miles on them and the rears are starting to wear. I had another set of Proxes 4's on my '02 RL, they started to wear around 26,000 miles.
I've found them very quiet and decent in the rain with excellent dry grip.
I assume you got them at Les Schwab.
#12
#13
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I have Proxes 4's on my S2000. I've got 15,000 miles on them and the rears are starting to wear. I had another set of Proxes 4's on my '02 RL, they started to wear around 26,000 miles.
I've found them very quiet and decent in the rain with excellent dry grip.
I assume you got them at Les Schwab.
I don't suppose you know anyone that's tried A&A Tires before? I believe they just popped up in Milwaukie a couple years ago. I've heard good things so far...
#14
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#15
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Yep, back in '09. I did have good experience with them, but I expected to be getting a bit more use out of them considering I was charged $730 for them Another thing I noticed about Schwab is their inventory is pretty subpar. Everyone's been telling me to stay away from them, so I think I'll take their advice.. Also they don't give out free beef anymore!
I don't suppose you know anyone that's tried A&A Tires before? I believe they just popped up in Milwaukie a couple years ago. I've heard good things so far...
I don't suppose you know anyone that's tried A&A Tires before? I believe they just popped up in Milwaukie a couple years ago. I've heard good things so far...
#16
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Thread Starter
I think they used to go by a different name until a few years ago, based off what I read on their yelp page. They say they've been in business 35+ years, but there's not too many yelp reviews or anything. I think I might give them a shot though.
Really? I still remember them telling me that Proxes were rated at 70k when I bought them. I guess it's my fault for not doing research beforehand...
The Proxes 4 have a UTQG of 300 which means they will wear out at roughly 30,000 miles. Sometimes you'll get more, sometimes you'll get less.
Basically, whatever the UTQG rating is, if you add two 0's to the end you get a rough/general idea of how many miles the tires will last (for a normal driver).
Basically, whatever the UTQG rating is, if you add two 0's to the end you get a rough/general idea of how many miles the tires will last (for a normal driver).
#17
Could there have been another tire(s) you were looking at and got them mixed up some how?
#18
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Les Schwab DOES sell several Toyos that are 70K tires. I had those awful things on my '97 TL, the road noise drove me nuts and I got different ones.
#19
Senior Moderator
Yep, back in '09. I did have good experience with them, but I expected to be getting a bit more use out of them considering I was charged $730 for them Another thing I noticed about Schwab is their inventory is pretty subpar. Everyone's been telling me to stay away from them, so I think I'll take their advice.. Also they don't give out free beef anymore!
I don't suppose you know anyone that's tried A&A Tires before? I believe they just popped up in Milwaukie a couple years ago. I've heard good things so far...
I don't suppose you know anyone that's tried A&A Tires before? I believe they just popped up in Milwaukie a couple years ago. I've heard good things so far...
#21
In the Mid-South meow
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Discount Tire Direct is the way I go, unless I need them immediately then I'll just go with whatever Discount has in stock at their location.
As far as tread wear goes, it's just a "suggestion" because my Continental DWSs were "supposed" to last 50k miles and I didn't even make it halfway there which included a blow out.
As far as tread wear goes, it's just a "suggestion" because my Continental DWSs were "supposed" to last 50k miles and I didn't even make it halfway there which included a blow out.
#22
Safety Car
I have Proxes 4 on my AGs and they ride very smooth. Not sure about the tread life though since I just got them.
Last edited by UA6; 04-10-2014 at 10:14 AM.
#23
2024 Honda Civic Type R
Discount Tire is great. Back when I purchased my aftermarket wheels they mounted my summer tires on them for me. Mount, balance, and free lifetime checks + air all for about $100. They treat the car very well, too. Plus synched up the TPMS for me as well.
Last edited by RPhilMan1; 04-10-2014 at 10:24 AM.
#24
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There isn't a Discount/America Tire near me, nearest one is 150 miles
I just buy mine from Tire Rack and have my friend (an Acura Master Tech) do all the work. He and I fiddled around with the S2000's alignment yesterday and then took it for a spin until I was happy.
I just buy mine from Tire Rack and have my friend (an Acura Master Tech) do all the work. He and I fiddled around with the S2000's alignment yesterday and then took it for a spin until I was happy.
#25
The sizzle in the Steak
Came in here looking for Rapture's new car.
Disappointed.
Disappointed.
#26
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#27
Team Owner
i can't remember the last time i rotated my tires.
I stopped rotating tires on my accord too. I figured if i can't rotate my tires on my staggered tires and they still last 25k miles. what is the worst that can happen on a fwd accord.
I have heard a lot of good things about Dunlop Star spec, Z2 looks like they will not last more than 10k miles from the way the tread looks. or if you want go cheaper and more for DD, Hankook Evo V12 is a good choice too.
Many cheap people like me run these on their S2000 and 3 series.
Even cheaper? Federal will be good.
I stopped rotating tires on my accord too. I figured if i can't rotate my tires on my staggered tires and they still last 25k miles. what is the worst that can happen on a fwd accord.
I have heard a lot of good things about Dunlop Star spec, Z2 looks like they will not last more than 10k miles from the way the tread looks. or if you want go cheaper and more for DD, Hankook Evo V12 is a good choice too.
Many cheap people like me run these on their S2000 and 3 series.
Even cheaper? Federal will be good.
Last edited by oonowindoo; 04-10-2014 at 04:02 PM.
#28
E92
i can't remember the last time i rotated my tires.
I stopped rotating tires on my accord too. I figured if i can't rotate my tires on my staggered tires and they still last 25k miles. what is the worst that can happen on a fwd accord.
I have heard a lot of good things about Dunlop Star spec, Z2 looks like they will not last more than 10k miles from the way the tread looks. or if you want go cheaper and more for DD, Hankook Evo V12 is a good choice too.
Many cheap people like me run these on their S2000 and 3 series.
Even cheaper? Federal will be good.
I stopped rotating tires on my accord too. I figured if i can't rotate my tires on my staggered tires and they still last 25k miles. what is the worst that can happen on a fwd accord.
I have heard a lot of good things about Dunlop Star spec, Z2 looks like they will not last more than 10k miles from the way the tread looks. or if you want go cheaper and more for DD, Hankook Evo V12 is a good choice too.
Many cheap people like me run these on their S2000 and 3 series.
Even cheaper? Federal will be good.
Also, I would just rotate the tires yourself. Most cars are so heavily balanced towards understeer that you've got nothing to worry about
Last edited by TommySalami; 04-10-2014 at 05:49 PM.
#29
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Thread Starter
Noob tire question --> noob car purchase?
and lol I posted this thread before I saw what the trend was around here. Maybe next time
Well does the installer they deliver to have to be "certified" from Tire Rack? The only places they list on their site are places I'm a little sketchy on. Shipping to me is a little pricey..
and lol I posted this thread before I saw what the trend was around here. Maybe next time
Well does the installer they deliver to have to be "certified" from Tire Rack? The only places they list on their site are places I'm a little sketchy on. Shipping to me is a little pricey..
#31
Senior Moderator
It's okay. You should see the damage I did to the car.
The manager did make it right though. They scuffed and scratch two other wheels as well, so he sent all three off to be refinished on their dime.
The manager did make it right though. They scuffed and scratch two other wheels as well, so he sent all three off to be refinished on their dime.
#32
Safety Car
Thread Starter
That is definitely ridiculous. Like he had the socket spinning before he put the wrench over the lugnut. That works every time.
I get nervous just letting the guys drive my car onto the lift.
I get nervous just letting the guys drive my car onto the lift.
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