OMG IT'S FINALLY HERE!

MIATA!

It's one of my favorites cars all time.

The PR embargo was lifted midnight and everything's pouring out as expected.

Motor Trend did a fun comparo between the new Miata and BRZ. Just sharing.

I love both cars! and I'm so blessed to be able to wake up in the morning and get to drive my BRZ everyday.

Anyway, enjoy!

2016 Mazda MX-5 Miata vs. 2015 Subaru BRZ Comparison - Motor Trend

 

Very nice!

Honda is missing out in the game.

 

Exactly. I have fun in Miatas but a redesigned S2000 with a K-series engine would be a serious contender.

 

You are talking about two different price points though. The Miata was always cheaper than an S. Unless you mean Honda should create a cheaper s2000 for its next iteration.

 

Nope, keep the price points the same. The S2000 offered more and cost more. Nothing wrong with that.

If Honda wants to make a turbo 1.5 competitor in the $20 to $30k range, well that's great too.

 

I gotta admit, I love the new ND Miata. I think Mazda took the styling in the right direction- I like it waaaay more than my NC. Now if only Mazda made an optional SC or Turbo kit for this car, instead of forcing people to go aftermarket...

 

Yup, fair enough. The s2000 was always better than any equivalent model year Miata, but the s2000 was an engineering marvel in comparison. The chassis was WAY stiffer than that of any Miata ever, it had a balls-to-the-wall engine, where the Miata just relied on a not-so-special engine churning out average power without a sky high rpm limit, the interior materials are okay at best in comparison to the s2000, etc, etc.

Clearly, you get what you pay for. If Im not mistaken, I believe Honda lost money on every s2000 they sold, but they just wanted to show off their abilities. Mazda sells the Miata for profit, thereby further seperating the price points.

 

It has grown on me. It's no surprise it will be a hit, just like the rest. Unfortunately, I can't see me replacing my NC with one.

 

It's very interesting that the GTI is by far the faster car around the track and yet no one wants it over the other two cars. I think that if you told someone that going slower with lots of drama was more exciting than speed, they'd call you crazy.

Yet, that's the TL;DR here ... Which actually makes sense in a world of 55-mph secondary road speed limits and congestion. Slow thrills > fast fun.

 

The S is a no nonsense, 6-speed, no way around it/all out sports car....the Miata is not, and never was. The S, IMO, is a one trick pony ( a very awesome one trick pony) whereas the Miata can be enjoyed by a much more vast group of people.

Better is relative.

 

100% agreed. Well said!

 

There's a few problems with the GTI:
1. It's a Volkswagen. You don't buy a VW for long term reliability.
2. It's expensive right out the gate. Repairs will be pricey also.
3. This one is personal, but, I hate German engineering. I think Japan does things better.
4. It's FWD, which is not what people looking for a sporty car want. Granted, a FWD can haul some serious ass and even be faster, but it's not the same feeling.

I must admit, I've considered a GTI a numbe of times, but for the same money I feel I can get a much nicer car. That and VW reliability scares me.

The GTI is a good DD with sporty enhancements over a regular Golf. Although the BRZ/MX5 can both definitely handle DD abilities, they are more geared towards being fun sports cars. If that makes any sense, lol.

 

It does. And I'm glad we have choices ... It's all relative. I've owned a lot of cars and still buy VWs. I have a RWD car right now and enjoy that it doesn't have the torque steer my Focus ST does. But I'm drawn toward German cars and eventually will probably end up in an Audi again.

I don't like driving around at 8k RPM so the BRZ and Miata don't appeal to me. I respect that they're very good at what they do and their owners love them though.

But I'd rather be in a GTI than a BRZ if I had my choice.

 

I don't think being VW and FWD have much to do with it. Since it has always been FWD and VW....

I personally think the problem with GTi is somewhat similar with Acura.

Yes the 2.0T is good and proven and handling is great but isn't that the same for the past what.. 10 years? while 210/220hp is good enough but that is not just good enough from marketing point of view.

That plus the ultra competitive market, GTi does not stand out as much as it used to.

If i were in a market for a fast Econo box for <$30k, i would get WRX in a heartbeat. I have recommended GTi to many of my friends because they had never owned one but for the return customers, what else is new?

 

I would love to see Honda joining this market!

Love the styling of ND Miata. I've seen one on the road already when I went up to ACH for a drive last Monday. It was a silver one and was on the other side of the road going uphill. It looked AWESOME. It kinda has the Lotus feel to it.

I think it's much better for cars to come N/A from the stock, keep the sticker price down, and give people a choice to add in the F/I kits.

I think the article clearly states the reasons why the car enthusiasts like those car journalists would choose the Miata/BRZ over the GTI, if they are in the market for a sportscar. It's about the driving experience, not about the numbers on the magazine or lap time.

I've driven on that track a lot of times already, the average Joe like you and us will probably take forever to get that kind of lap time in those cars, if ever. Those are VERY fast times for the stock cars. The 0-60 times, 1/4 mile times, and lap times? Those are pretty irrelevant when it comes to telling the "FEEL" of the car.

You drive the car. You don't let the car drive you. That's the difference.

Yep. I've a newly found love toward the S2K ever since I bought my car and started taking it to the track.

The S2K is the best all out TRACK TOY you can buy even today. It didn't have to deal with the modern day safety/smog regulations. It was engineered when Honda was at the top of its days. But it is a very hardcore track machine. Almost all my friends who track their S2K have a second car that they daily drive.

It is all relative, yes. People have different priorities when they buy a car.

You said you don't like driving around at 8k RPM, so obviously you would prefer the GTI over these other cars.

But what isn't very relative is that a GTI will never be as engaging to drive nor offer the same rewarding driving experience as Miata/86 do. That's just how it is.

I don't have an issue with the German car reliability since I've owned my Avant for almost 6 years without any issues. I'm purely talking about how the car drives.

This.

The GTIs are a little on the softer side in the market. The target demographic is completely different for the performance hatch/sedan car market.

 

There are two reasons I'd sell my S2000.

1.) The wife says I can get a 991 or newer 911 (unlikely)
2.) Honda makes a true and worthy successor (more unlikely)

GTI is a great car but it's rather tame compared to either the Miata or the S2k but it's not meant for the same purpose. Also, I agree that it's time that VAG update that damn 2.0L turbo and put in something a bit better and more in line with the ~250hp range that the competitors are currently playing in.

That said, the S2k isn't really an all out track toy, I DD mine on days that are sunny and nice out mostly to keep it in good shape and it's quite comfortable for what it is.

 

Charliemike wasn't talking about the S2K.

And you can do it because you and your wife have bigger cars to drive anytime. The S2K has very minimal cargo room. Comfortable is subjective. I call my car very comfortable but it's not to most of average people. lol

 

Yeah I know, the S2k could never be my only car but again it's pretty comfortable for being a small two seat roadster. Never said it had a whole lot of utility lol.

 

Not a lot of ppl are as hardcore as me... with s2000 being my only car for 6 years... imagine that.

 

 

Lol, 210/220HP is still more power than the BRZ/FRS/MX5 put down. And since it's turbo'd, it puts down much more torque than either of the above. So from a marketing perspective, as you say, the GTI should be ahead.

Again, the problem lies with the whole car itself. The GTI is the top trim level of the Golf and as such, it is pricey. Top trim models are never big sellers. It's the entry level and mid levels that sell the most. You can get the BRZ or Miata for much less as they are touted as sports cars in all trims (can you even get the BRZ in different trims?).

I'm not sure what more you want from the Golf. It's doing what it's supposed to be doing. A hot hatch with decent power. Everyone always expects new generations to have more power over the previous, but that's not the point of the Golf. It will never hit 300hp in GTI form, I bet. If you want that, get the R. It also comes with a dual clutch transmission. That's pretty modern. You don't see that on every car. It also has classic Golf styling that people love.

However, hatches are seen as entry level cars. A GTI has a high sticker price for an entry level car. Even if you cram the best leather, the best sound system, the best this and that, it's still just a fancy entry level car. With a high price.

 

Try an NC miata. I can't drive an s2000 for more than 30 minutes. The NC is amazing in comparison. Granted, I'm a big galoot, so I'm sure for short people it might not matter lol.

 

No, I meant more of a factory option for FI. Kind of like how you could get a factory TRD supercharger put on the Toyota Tacoma. 98% of buyers would never get it, but those who do are very happy. Being a sports car though, I could see a bit more people splurge on it for the Miata.

 

Yes, the BRZ Premium is $26K.

And man, let's not make this into everything vs. GTI. haha It's pretty much an Apple vs Orange.

 

Yeah, interior room wise, it's 86>>Miata>>S2K for sure.

Ah! That makes sense. That would be a nice option. I think they should come out with something like WRX and WRX STi selection in a couple of years.

 

my brother went to the tail of the dragon last weekend and he spotted one there... you can see his G37 parked nearby in the video


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsRD...ature=youtu.be

 

The car looks awesome. It's different!

You can clearly tell, just by looking at it, how fun the car is.

 

You are getting too deep into this.

BRZ and FRS have different customers, those people chose it because of its weight, RWD and driving characteristics (i hope) over the more powerful WRX, GTi and whatever else in that segment. BRZ/FRS are relatively new, so whatever they are doing right now is fine. Imagine they keep the same powertrain and just make some small improvement here and there for the next 10 years. Then it will face the same problem. But for now it is still new.

What do i expect from GTi? A upgraded 2.0T with 250HP, and a new look rather than a facelift, new interior.

Like i said earlier, there is not much wrong with the current GTi the way it is.
But it is time for some major improvements soon.

 

Then it is YOU, not the car.

 

Apples to oranges, enough said.

I would never compare any small roadster or light RWD car to a GTI. Similar power, but totally different driving characteristics with a different customer base.

I would daily drive a GTI over my S2000, but I'd drop it in a heart beat when it came for a quick blast down the mountains

 

There are people that will never buy a WRX for a variety of reasons like the association with teens and fart pipes or the low quality interior. It's also a polarizing design.

The GTI is what it is though it's now the best it's ever been. It's lighter, more agile, has more HP, and more features. And at $25K for a GTI S, I think it's probably the best all around car for the money. It's sporty, attractive, extremely versatile, and economical.

People like the GTI because it's German. The design, execution, and aesthetics are very much VW. It has a loyal following.

There are other good options in that price range for certain. But the GTI remains the best car for $25K in many people's minds.

It's an option in a very competitive market. But it shouldn't be dismissed just because it's a FWD VW.

 

Rewarding is subjective. I don't live around good driving roads. I want a quick, nice, and attractively designed car. I get the FWD/RWD debate. I'm not arguing that. Driving my Mustang is a totally different experience than my Focus was ... I like not having to worry about torque steer.

But there are things about a car like the GTI that I would find rewarding that I would not in the Miata or BRZ.

When I think about the ideal car that I can afford, it's not a coupe. It's something like a Golf R. A very quick, very capable, versatile sporty car that doesn't draw a lot of attention to itself.

 

I have driven the MK7 plenty of time and i know what you are talking about. That is why i have recommended to many people including the guy who just bought the WRX.

But after driven his new WRX, it felt just as agile if not more agile than GTi. It is weird i know. It sits taller and bigger but it is a very weird feeling that I never felt with past WRX. The handling is extremely neutral being a AWD and it felt light...

Anyways back to Miata!!

 

I'm strictly talking about the driving dynamics. That's the point of this comparo article too. No BS, just looking at the driving dynamics.

 

Want, want, want!
ND MX-5 Club with the Brembo/BBS aero pkg.

 

Have to be careful with the packaging though. It adds up super quickly.

I would just get the base and upgrade wheels/tires/coilovers/LSD. That should be cheaper than getting them from the factory. haha

 

ND Miata looks cool and is cool. if I didn't have a S2000. I want to test drive one just to get the experience.

 

Don't care Likely will want more kit than the base has (tech-wise) & the Club should be a good start to get back into racing (auto-x)

 

You don't care about spending your $ wisely? OK!

 

I'll have to see when they finally start showing up. May be happy with a base Club trim without the aero kit goodies. Though the Brembos from the factory would be nice.