Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

So last night I started Motorcycle classes. The program consists of 1 night of lecture and a test. Two nights of riding practice and getting to know the bike and a riding test. The class is part of the Motorcycle Safety Foundation (MSF) and at the end of the program you get your DMV certificate which is nice so all you gotta do is take the written test at the DMV and you've got your motorcycle license.

I was shocked to hear so many people in the class that are already riding without a license! It's no wonder why there are so many motorcycle accidents! People that don't have their license haven't gone through proper training which just makes it worse IMHO. Not that auto drivers aren't to blame, it's just a mix of problems that come together and make it really bad.

I went in knowing very little about riding a bike, I came out knowing quite a bit more, but until I apply what we learned in lecture with hours upon hours of practice riding I still think that its something that you master in a lifetime. I must say that so far I love the course and when we get to get on the bikes tonight I'll know I'll enjoy it even more.

What I found very informational were the guidelines like T-CLOCS, FINE-C, SEE and all these other things you could do to reduce your chances of being invovled in an accident. And it got me thinking, a large portion of what's included in this class should be included with normal automobile license training. I think it has the potential for reducing incidents between auto's and motorcycles simply because it may raise more awareness about what it means to share the road. Too many auto drivers think they own the road and think that motorcycles shouldn't be on the road which is flat out Unfortunately if the DMV ever did include this in their testing/trainign programs I think too many people would complain that it has nothing to do with them and it would be removed because having a license is a right and not a privilege.

Anyway, so just wanted to share. The course is a lot of fun, very informative and I woudl suggest it to anyone that wants to simply learn what it's all about. The riding practice for us is held in a coned off parking lot with instructors that teach you the basics so it's in a safe environment.

Eggplant-EX

when you start riding, try to find an experienced rider that can give you lessons in the road. I am always amazed at new riders who never ask "how do I do that?". "How did you do that?". Like racing cars, you have 'lines' to follow in corners and there are dos and don'ts.

Anachostic

Did my MSF course probably about 6 months ago. Just bought a bike a couple of weeks ago. I haven't left my neighborhood yet. Don't rush anything.

paz840

iTrader: (2)

i'm planning to take the MSF class later this spring

sho_nuff1997

iTrader: (2)

We have similar here in WI....it's call "Ride Alive". You do a week/weekend of training and end with a test that is equivalent to the DMV road test, and only have to take the written test to get your license.

I plan to take the class this summer. Here, in WI, there is a 6+ month waiting list to take the DMV's driving (riding) test.

Moog-Type-S

Congrats, Anil, on taking the MSF!!!

You are doing the right thing. The MSF will save your @ss.

<--- Waiting for your I just bought a new bike thread.

nbennettksu

iTrader: (2)

Like Moog said, it'll save your life man!

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

I plan on it!

I don't plan on rushing at all. I can't afford a bike right now anyway. I wanted to take this course to learn about what's involved in riding a bike since I had never ridden one and to see if I even like it in the first place. Tonight I'll find out, but I have no doubts now if I will enjoy it or not. :devilgrin

Good luck!

6 month waiting list!

Thanks dude, I wish I could go and buy a bike right now but can't. Who knows, maybe I can convince the wifey to let me buy one. I was looking at R6 pricing, they've gotten so damn high since the last time I looked. I remember when they were only $6-$7K, now they're nearly $10K!

Used or not, Do you think a 500/600 CC is a bad starter bike?

You only get one chance to do things right.

mcflyguy24

500-600cc isn't that bad for a starter bike. It's best to learn how to ride on something smaller, but you'll appreciate the added power. Think of all those harley riders on 1000-1200cc even more sometimes. As long as you practice good throttle control you'll be fine.

Moog-Type-S

Bad comparo...a 1300 or 1500cc cruiser is nothing like a 600cc sport bike.

Power to weight ratios, and engine power bands make a huge difference.

An R6 isn't really a "starter" bike. Far be it from me to tell anyone what they should or shouldn't do, but a 250 Ninja "is" a starter bike.

Can someone learn to ride on a 600cc sport bike? Sure.
Is it safe?...can it get you in trouble?....These questions will depend on the rider.

Remember: Ride within YOUR limits....not the bikes...not other riders you are riding with.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

Very good advice, thanks Moog.

I've already etched the "riding within your limits" into my brain after last nights lecture. So no worries for me there. I don't plan on being an idiot on a bike. My wife was already concerned about me taking this course, but she came around and realized there's risk in anything I/We do, it's about managing those risks and reducing them as much as possible.

My brother-in-law has been talking about starting on a Ninja 250 and he has recommended the same to me. As much as I want an R6, I should put that aside and get a 250 to practice with. I just am hesitant to buy a used 250 because I don't want to end up with a bike I'll possibly need to spend more money on to get it in proper working order. And If I were to buy a new 250 I'd rather go ahead and get the R6 and really get to know the bike I'm going to be riding in the long run anyway. I'm just torn between deciding what to do. Regardless of the path, I can assure you I'd take it very slow and practice A LOT in as safe a way as possible. Even if that means finding an empty parking lot to practice or even taking the MSF riding course again and/or riding with someone that has experience, like you Moog.

GreenMonster

I've been thinking the same thing... I might just take the course to see how I like it, and go from there. I've got alot of time on my hands now, so I might look into booking at weekday session (early april is still open).

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

Do it! Either way you will learn something. And worst case, you'll have a heightened appreciation for what motorcyclists have to deal with on the road, it'll make you a better driver (not that you're a bad one).

fl07si

the safety course is great. i bought my bike before i had my license and in the state of florida you have to have the endorsement if you were born after like 1970 or somthing. Ive been riding for 4 yrs now and am glad i took the course it is very informative. by the way i drive an 05 Harley Fatboy

Moog-Type-S

The parking lot idea is a must IMHO.....go there and practice PANIC STOPS.

Most riders never practice hard braking....and when (not if) the first time you practice a hard braking manuever from +45mph down to near zero...you better know how your bike and you will handle it.

Riding a bike is easy at speed...cornering, braking, and slow speed manuevers are where the good riders are separated from the poor ones.

Takran

Congrats on starting your training, the MSF course is absolutely fantastic. I took it before I started riding, and recommend it without hesitation.

I personally started on a Ninja 250 last year. While I'm careful enough with the throttle to have probably been fine on a bigger bike, the light weight of the 250 has saved me from dropping it a few times due to inexperience in situations such as making a turn from a stop sign on a hill. Being able to slam your foot down and bring the bike back into line is a nice perk when you're inexperienced and prone to making little mistakes that could end with you dropping your nicer, bigger bike.

As for buying used, look for one that doesn't have too many miles on it, and look it over thoroughly before you buy. Look at tire wear, brake pads, make sure the chain isn't rusted (a sign it hasn't been oiled properly), etc. The person I bought mine from let me take it for a test ride, even though I was a newbie (not everyone will do this). Buying used can get you a great deal if you're patient. Some sellers include accessories or riding gear with the bike if they're not using it anymore - just make sure used gear hasn't endured a crash.

EDIT: Just noticed the parking lot practice idea: YES, and not just for one-time learning. The MSF training is invaluable, but emergency skills aren't used every day. You should practice emergency braking and maneuvering in an empty parking lot when you buy a new bike (for familiarization with that bike), and at least once every season/year.

Moog-Type-S

^^ NEVER buy a used helmet.

pttl

Congrats to all in this thread. I was an MSF instructor for a long time.
It's very rewarding to see the "lights come on" as the new riders go through the course.

Listen to the instructors, and keep your eyes moving and in front of you.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

The instructor last night put heavy emphasis on that. It's not worth your life to buy a used helmet.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

One of the topics we covered numerous times last night was that you should always use both brakes so that when you get into situations like you mention (panic stops) you are comfortable with knowing how to use both brakes well and hopefully not lock them up. Either way, if my brother-in-law and I get a bike we'll definitely be heading to an empty parking lot for practice.

Osamu

I took the msf class over at mt. sac when I was like 18 or 19.

I'd defnitely recommend deciding if a bike is for you, and if so, not waiting too long to get back on and practice. I didn't pick up my first bike until last year, and really couldn't remember anything from msf.

I enjoyed riding, but not sure if a bike was for me. I was really tentative. I think I'd enjoy it more if I had more open roads, but Hawaii is full of bad drivers, a lot of traffic, and really hot to be wearing full gear, unless you run into a freak downpour. I had to sell my bike, maybe i'd give it another shot if I run into some more disposable income. I owned just a 250 ninja for a year though, and sold it for more than I bought it for. Not a bad investment.

LukeaTron

The MSF course is fantastic. I want to take the advanced one but it's been hard to find the time and you have to book your spot like a year in advance (they only run a few of the advanced courses each year and they only take 6 to 8 people per class).

I would not recommend any new bike as a first bike. First of all, chances are very good that the bike will have some kind of get together with the ground in your first year of riding. There are so many little things that are so easy to screw up, like stopping with one of your wheels on a bump so that by the time your foot hits the ground, the bike is leaning too far to stop it. I did that twice. I was able to set the bike down fairly gently but it did cause some scratches. Luckily it's a 15 year old bike that's already been fairly well "broken in" so to speak.

My main bike is a 94 Yamaha FZR 600. This bike was the pinnacle of technology in the late 80s and early 90s. The thing is, I doubt I could even push this bike to 25% of its limits on public streets without being insanely stupid. It's much faster than any car south of 100 grand. I've ridden the new R6 and it's easily 5 times the bike that mine is, which is to say about 95% more bike than any reasonable person could find use for on a public road. I've also ridden a few liter bikes and those things are just plain scary.

Also, before you commit to buying a sport bike, spend some time sitting on one. They are not comfortable. Your knees and hips are always bent beyond 90 degrees. It does not make for a relaxed day of riding. Don't get me wrong, I love wasting summer weekends getting lost in the hills, but my body does not feel good come Monday. And the seating position on my 15 year old bike is considerably less aggressive than it's modern progeny. I think my next bike is going to be a Honda VFR. It's a sport tourer with more focus on the sport part. The big difference between this and a dedicated sport bike is that the seating position is nearly upright and your feet are directly below your knees.

The Ninja 250 is an excellent choice as first bike. It will have plenty power as long as you don't plan on cruising the highways (which is boring as shit anyway). The things are crazy flickable and a whole lot of fun to throw around. They make great confidence builders, which is key in keeping yourself safe. You can't be hesitating or second guessing yourself or you're going to mess up.

So to summarize:
* MSF classes are awesome and every rider should absolutely take one, ideally every couple years.
* You're going to mess up your fist bike to some extent.
* Don't be afraid of used bikes, especially as a first. You'll only end up having it a few years anyway. Let some one else take the majority of the depreciation hit.
* Modern sport bikes are serious fucking business. If you don't respect that 100% of the time, very bad things will happen.
* Ergonomics is a very low priority on sport bikes.

Oh, and another crucial acronym you should know, ATGATT: All The Gear, All The Time. Plan on spending about $1000 on gear. Get stuff that fits you correctly. Leather is the best option, even though it can be hot as hell. Spending some cash on a good helmet is absolutely worth it. Most helmets will protect your head pretty well but the more expensive ones tend to be lighter, quieter and more aerodynamic (i.e. they won't generate lift at speed and try to pull your head off your neck). All of this leads to less fatigue which makes for a clearer head and better decisions.

My last suggestion is to get a camel back or similar type of hydration device. I didn't do this until recently and it makes a huge difference. Your body sheds a ton of fluids between the gear, the hot bike air and all the wind. Keeping yourself hydrated massively reduces fatigue. Also, your throat gets pretty dry from the ram air effect.

Enjoy the class. Take full advantage of the riding time they offer. And most importantly, keep yourself safe.


(boo for no motorcycle smilies)

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

I'm taking it at Mt. SAC too!

Moog-Type-S

This thread would be better with Ducati

taitando

Congrats on taking the class.

You didn't do that either? A lot of people ride around with just a permit long before they ever get their license. I did things kinda backwards in that I took the MSF first, took the written, got my permit, then got my license afterwards.

Anyhow, now comes the fun part in picking out a bike and riding the hell out of it. You'll learn new things on the road that you simply can't get in class and you'll also unlearn old things that were drilled in (i.e. like using both brakes) as you gain more experience. Throughout all the new experiences, just remember the protective gear.

Moog-Type-S

If you take the MSF...all you need to do is go to the DMV take the written test and you have a license.

How did you only end up with a permit?

taitando

No, what I'm saying is that most people (in Cali) take a written test at the DMV to get their permit. Then they take the MSF, do the riding test, and go back to the DMV to get their license.

I didn't take the initial written test to get my permit. I just did the MSF first and then the riding test through the MSF. But I still had to do the DMV's written test (the one typically used to get the permit) in order to eventually get my license, because I skipped it.

GreenMonster

Here in MA, we get a permit, take the course (school and road), and the school notifies the DMV that we've completed the course, and get the motorcycle endorsement on our licenses... No extra tests needed. It's pretty cool...

GreenMonster

You can get some nice used 250's out there... and cheap too... I've been looking at cheap hondas for years...

Honda made Rebel 250's back to the mid 80's, so you can pick some of those up for several hundred bucks...

Then there's the newer rebels or nighthawks if you're looking for something more reliable and that will need no work done...

I really want a 86 or 87 honda rebel 450, but they are kinda collectable, so they can run up to around 2500 for a excellent example...

Osamu

i bought my 250 ninja for $1500 almost 2 years ago. It was an 04' w/ 8k miles. Not even close to having to put labor in to get it working, and easily half the price of a new one. The old 250 ninjas were the same for like 20 years, so they have a pretty loyal following, a lot of parts, tons of information if you want to service it yourself, and if you don't, service should be pretty cheap.

The new 09' 250 ninja look pretty sharp though. I don't really know what you can afford, but yea, don't think you'll keep your bike up on 2 wheels forever. I went down once in like the first couple weeks doing a u-turn for the first time at the end of a narrow dead end street, and layed it down twice trying to plant my foot on an oil slick.

afici0nad0

very nice.

i too took a MSF, and enjoyed every minute of it.

it was having major butterflies in my stomach prior to the start of my road test. but, after the first of five category tests, it was a breeze.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

I am interested in hearing your impressions of the riding portion of the class. I am planning to sign up for one in my local area with a friend this summer and I cannot wait. I've wanted a motorcycle for a long time but never really had the time or money until now...

Moog-Type-S

:ibslysayshelearnedtoturnhishead:

GreenMonster

There's lots of great deals on starter bikes... I don't know why anyone would buy a new 250 with the supply of cheap used ones in great condition.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

I've got some catching up to do on this thread... I'll post later today during my lunch. I'll say this, last nights was a lot of fun. And yes Moog, I learned to turn my head after having to remind myself a few times.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

Some people don't like buying used.

taitando

There's also looks. Some people hate the look of the old Ninja 250, especially compared to the 2008+. On the other hand, in the 250cc range, I like the look of the Suzuki TU250. Very retro and UJM inspired.

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

So where to begin. Before our practice session began I was nervous/scared that I'd do something completely stupid and make a fool of myself, which I did numerous times, but you gotta remain confident that with practice you'll get better and that is what I said to myself throughout the evening to keep from getting frustrated and continue having a good time. Which by the way I did throughout the entire night even after making those stupid mistakes.

Since this was our first practice session they start off with the basics, getting you familiar with the track and the bike you chose (they had various bikes of different classes, mostly dual purpose and a couple touring). I chose one of the dual purpose bikes, it was a Suzuki 200 something. Here's a pic I found on the web of what I remember the bike looking like:



To start they had us walk around the bike to get familiar with it and to remember which bike we chose so that after our breaks we returned to the same bike. LOL. Next they showed us proper mounting techniques, practiced that a few times and moved on to getting familiar with the controls, then proper start up procedure, shut down procedure, getting familiar with all of the levers, pedals etc. Then came the fun stuff, riding.

Our first exercise was getting familiar with the friction zone and power walking the bike from one side of the track to the other. The 2nd part of that exercise was our first ride, keeping it in first gear and riding from one side to the other. During this part I was having a hard time getting the bike into neutral, which I still do, but I do understand the shift pedal more now. I don't remember the order of the remaining exercises so I'll just share everything from this point forward. The remaining exercises consisted of learning to turn, pause and go, shifting from first to second gear, shifting from 2nd to 3rd and back to 2nd while going around the track, quick stops using both brakes while downshifting to 1st, swerving practice, and press and lean turning. There may be more but I can't remember everything I did since the class started at 6 and we got out at around 10:30pm.

The areas I had the most difficulty with were pause and go, swerving and the press and lean. The puase and go was difficult because the throttle on my bike was very punchy and not very smooth, so many times I either stalled the bike or gave it too much gas. As the night went on though I got better at it and became more familiar with the bike, but there was definitly something up with the throttle because even at the higher gears it was never smooth no matter how slow I rolled on the throttle. Swerving was challenging because 1) you can't help but want to look at the cones but you're supposed to keep your head up 2) I was scared I was going to fall but as I practiced more I gained more confidence in turning the handlebars more and more to make the turn. Press and leans, well I don't think I was going fast enough, and I definitly wasn't leaning enough. Again for fear of falling.

I didn't fall once thank god. Stalled the bike numerous times which gave me more practice at starting the bike I suppose. There was one girl in the course that dropped the bike 3 times, they unfortunately asked her to leave, but the cool thing is she doesn't have to pay again, she can take the course again for free as long as a seat is open, but she has to start all over with the lecture first.

Even though it's only been one night, I'm very, VERY happy I took the MSF class first rather than getting a permit and learning to ride then taking the course because this way I don't have to worry about having to unlearn bad tactics that I could have picked up if I hadn't taken the course first. Learning it the right way the first time will definietly help when I do get my first bike. It's a very fun course and after last night I highly recommend it to you guys!

Tonight is the last riding practice and more exercise I'm guessing and our riding test.

Moog-Type-S

You have one more bike session...no?

Sly Raskal

iTrader: (1)

Yup, tonight, after which the riding test is administered.