Luxury discussion on the C.L. forum...
10-20-2009, 09:25 AM
#41
Senior Moderator
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chaiwala, why do you have such an obsession with proving him wrong? There is a simple solution to the problem.....stay out of CL. Such drama 
And yes I think the 4G TL is pretty damn ugly. I've owned Acuras all my life and, except for possibly the V6 TSX, Acura is not on my list of next cars.
And yes I think the 4G TL is pretty damn ugly. I've owned Acuras all my life and, except for possibly the V6 TSX, Acura is not on my list of next cars.
As sad as this may sound, I would buy a Genesis (either coupe or sedan depending on my needs/wants at the time of purchase) before I purchased anything from Acura these days...
or a new maxima or legacy 
10-20-2009, 11:29 AM
#47
Senior Moderator
As much as I dislike the CL OP's offensive posts of the past....
I must say I agree with many of his points. Not all, but many. I love Acura, but damn, the 4G TL is massive fail in the styling department. I'm used to it now, but I still don't like it. As someone who's owned three Acuras and still owns two Hondas, I think I deserve to be listened to by Honda on the issue.
I am on my knees, praying to the car gods that Acura doesn't fsck up the next RL with that ugly ass beak unless it's made to fit properly with the rest of the car. I want Acura to give us a car the enthusiasts will jizz over. Please? I'm not looking for a CTS-V here, just great styling that is bold yet inoffensive, powered by a decent V6 with low-end grunt. Pretty please?
I must say I agree with many of his points. Not all, but many. I love Acura, but damn, the 4G TL is massive fail in the styling department. I'm used to it now, but I still don't like it. As someone who's owned three Acuras and still owns two Hondas, I think I deserve to be listened to by Honda on the issue.
I am on my knees, praying to the car gods that Acura doesn't fsck up the next RL with that ugly ass beak unless it's made to fit properly with the rest of the car. I want Acura to give us a car the enthusiasts will jizz over. Please? I'm not looking for a CTS-V here, just great styling that is bold yet inoffensive, powered by a decent V6 with low-end grunt. Pretty please?
Last edited by neuronbob; 10-20-2009 at 11:32 AM.
10-20-2009, 12:09 PM
#50
Senior Moderator
Truth be told, I dont think the new TL's style is that bad.
Sure the beak looks out of place but like most things, we will end up getting use to it. Not saying we will ever like it.
My issue is that Acura isnt cutting the edge of budget technology anymore.
I remember the days when each generation TL would launch and it would offer stuff only $80k+ cars would have. Where have those days gone?
Like remember how Xenons were standard back in 99. That was something only high end German cars had at the time. Stuff like that had set Acura apart.
Then when the 2001 CLS was released, holy crap.. I can get xenon, navi, leather, 260hp, etc.. all for $31k?! Sign me up! In 2001 almost nothing could touch it in terms of bang for the buck.
Now we in 2009.. the TL has AWD that we all been asking for years but at what cost. $38,600 base without navi?! EEP.
/rant
Sure the beak looks out of place but like most things, we will end up getting use to it. Not saying we will ever like it.
My issue is that Acura isnt cutting the edge of budget technology anymore.
I remember the days when each generation TL would launch and it would offer stuff only $80k+ cars would have. Where have those days gone?
Like remember how Xenons were standard back in 99. That was something only high end German cars had at the time. Stuff like that had set Acura apart.
Then when the 2001 CLS was released, holy crap.. I can get xenon, navi, leather, 260hp, etc.. all for $31k?! Sign me up! In 2001 almost nothing could touch it in terms of bang for the buck.
Now we in 2009.. the TL has AWD that we all been asking for years but at what cost. $38,600 base without navi?! EEP.
/rant
10-20-2009, 12:53 PM
#53
Normally I agree... but personally, I do not like the back that much either. The profile is the only view I can stomach.
For me, 2 strikes out of 3 is too many to even consider it as my next car. Of all of the 4G TL's I've seen on the road, not one has made me look at it twice... and every time I see it I still make the
face. The only way it will grow on me is after a refresh... and that's if they fix it 
Also agree with you on price. MSRP has increased substantially, however, they're not offering anything incredible like they used to do. My 02 TL-S had all the features and comforts of most higher end Audi's, BMW's, Mercedes, and so on... but I was OTD for a tick under $30k.
Our last new car (B7 A4) was OTD for $32k and a similarly equipped TL would have put us ~$33k (if I'm remembering correctly) at the time... so it was a no-brainer to get into the Audi brand for less then an Acura. Now that we're hooked, we'll likely stay Audi with at least one car and at this point, I wouldn't even care if the Acura was a better bang for the buck.... to us the Audi just beats it in many different ways and it will take a lot for Acura to have me looking in their direction again.
It appears Hyundai has taken Acura's place with the Genesis allowing people to get S-Class features (and even design) for a fraction of the cost. That's what Acura used to do...
For me, 2 strikes out of 3 is too many to even consider it as my next car. Of all of the 4G TL's I've seen on the road, not one has made me look at it twice... and every time I see it I still make the
face. The only way it will grow on me is after a refresh... and that's if they fix it Also agree with you on price. MSRP has increased substantially, however, they're not offering anything incredible like they used to do. My 02 TL-S had all the features and comforts of most higher end Audi's, BMW's, Mercedes, and so on... but I was OTD for a tick under $30k.
Our last new car (B7 A4) was OTD for $32k and a similarly equipped TL would have put us ~$33k (if I'm remembering correctly) at the time... so it was a no-brainer to get into the Audi brand for less then an Acura. Now that we're hooked, we'll likely stay Audi with at least one car and at this point, I wouldn't even care if the Acura was a better bang for the buck.... to us the Audi just beats it in many different ways and it will take a lot for Acura to have me looking in their direction again.
It appears Hyundai has taken Acura's place with the Genesis allowing people to get S-Class features (and even design) for a fraction of the cost. That's what Acura used to do...
10-20-2009, 02:02 PM
#55
Instructor
I feel like I should come to the defense too since I own a TL as well.
These forums are established to express car enthusiast’s opinion. Clearly, the OP from CL did and so did most members on this thread. Everyone has their opinion about cars. Just like everyone has different taste on the style of clothing to wear. I like the TL so I drive one. Those people that think the TL is ugly probably won’t drive one. Trying to argue over these subjective matters is pointless.
I agree Honda may not know what the Acura brand is suppose to be and it may be true Acura is not class leading in anything but does it mean they are building poor quality cars that people do not want? Simply not true. Many people complaint about the 5 speed auto in Acura cars. Do we really need 8 speeds or 7 speeds auto on a car? Sure some car enthusiasts will appreciate the benefits of acceleration or fuel savings of having 1 or 2 extra gear in the transmission. But most people drive their cars casually and I really doubt the improvements will make that big of difference when driving casually. Again, Honda is in the business because they build reliable and cost efficient cars for the masses and not the small niche of car enthusiasts who likes 8 gears in their auto, RWD, or huge V8 engine. It is just not the strategy for Honda.
Now, something positive about the brand; the AWD system from Acura is quite interesting and very effective as most car journalist write positively about it. The biggest thing I regret about getting the TL is not getting it with the AWD
. Anyway, the factory stock audio system in the TL is also one of the best and it even beat out some of the premium stock audio systems from other luxury brands. You can read about it here. I’m sure there are other positive things about Acura cars but these pops into my mind that actually has some credibility and not just opinions without spending too much time digging around the internet. (I am writing this from work, so pardon my gramar and speiling 
)
To make it sound all is lost with Honda/Acura based on the only facts they don’t offer RWD, 6+ speed transmission, V8 in production cars, etc. is a really over the top statement. This is my first time owning a Honda/Acura car (previously owned a Nissan and a Volkswagen) and I know when it is time to get my next car, I will still consider Honda/Acura. For those that said they won't consider Honda/Acura cars in the future, hello!? wake up! You're acutally the minority.
Note: I can’t even say there is a brand I won’t consider in the future. Even Chrysler with their next gen 300C and Sebring look interesting and of course Fiat branded cars. (If they manage to build any of them
)
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
These forums are established to express car enthusiast’s opinion. Clearly, the OP from CL did and so did most members on this thread. Everyone has their opinion about cars. Just like everyone has different taste on the style of clothing to wear. I like the TL so I drive one. Those people that think the TL is ugly probably won’t drive one. Trying to argue over these subjective matters is pointless.
I agree Honda may not know what the Acura brand is suppose to be and it may be true Acura is not class leading in anything but does it mean they are building poor quality cars that people do not want? Simply not true. Many people complaint about the 5 speed auto in Acura cars. Do we really need 8 speeds or 7 speeds auto on a car? Sure some car enthusiasts will appreciate the benefits of acceleration or fuel savings of having 1 or 2 extra gear in the transmission. But most people drive their cars casually and I really doubt the improvements will make that big of difference when driving casually. Again, Honda is in the business because they build reliable and cost efficient cars for the masses and not the small niche of car enthusiasts who likes 8 gears in their auto, RWD, or huge V8 engine. It is just not the strategy for Honda.
Now, something positive about the brand; the AWD system from Acura is quite interesting and very effective as most car journalist write positively about it. The biggest thing I regret about getting the TL is not getting it with the AWD
. Anyway, the factory stock audio system in the TL is also one of the best and it even beat out some of the premium stock audio systems from other luxury brands. You can read about it here. I’m sure there are other positive things about Acura cars but these pops into my mind that actually has some credibility and not just opinions without spending too much time digging around the internet. (I am writing this from work, so pardon my gramar and speiling )To make it sound all is lost with Honda/Acura based on the only facts they don’t offer RWD, 6+ speed transmission, V8 in production cars, etc. is a really over the top statement. This is my first time owning a Honda/Acura car (previously owned a Nissan and a Volkswagen) and I know when it is time to get my next car, I will still consider Honda/Acura. For those that said they won't consider Honda/Acura cars in the future, hello!? wake up! You're acutally the minority.
Note: I can’t even say there is a brand I won’t consider in the future. Even Chrysler with their next gen 300C and Sebring look interesting and of course Fiat branded cars. (If they manage to build any of them
)<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
10-20-2009, 02:22 PM
#56
Three Wheelin'
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Normally I agree... but personally, I do not like the back that much either. The profile is the only view I can stomach.
For me, 2 strikes out of 3 is too many to even consider it as my next car. Of all of the 4G TL's I've seen on the road, not one has made me look at it twice... and every time I see it I still make the face. The only way it will grow on me is after a refresh... and that's if they fix it
Also agree with you on price. MSRP has increased substantially, however, they're not offering anything incredible like they used to do. My 02 TL-S had all the features and comforts of most higher end Audi's, BMW's, Mercedes, and so on... but I was OTD for a tick under $30k.
Our last new car (B7 A4) was OTD for $32k and a similarly equipped TL would have put us ~$33k (if I'm remembering correctly) at the time... so it was a no-brainer to get into the Audi brand for less then an Acura. Now that we're hooked, we'll likely stay Audi with at least one car and at this point, I wouldn't even care if the Acura was a better bang for the buck.... to us the Audi just beats it in many different ways and it will take a lot for Acura to have me looking in their direction again.
It appears Hyundai has taken Acura's place with the Genesis allowing people to get S-Class features (and even design) for a fraction of the cost. That's what Acura used to do...
For me, 2 strikes out of 3 is too many to even consider it as my next car. Of all of the 4G TL's I've seen on the road, not one has made me look at it twice... and every time I see it I still make the
face. The only way it will grow on me is after a refresh... and that's if they fix it Also agree with you on price. MSRP has increased substantially, however, they're not offering anything incredible like they used to do. My 02 TL-S had all the features and comforts of most higher end Audi's, BMW's, Mercedes, and so on... but I was OTD for a tick under $30k.
Our last new car (B7 A4) was OTD for $32k and a similarly equipped TL would have put us ~$33k (if I'm remembering correctly) at the time... so it was a no-brainer to get into the Audi brand for less then an Acura. Now that we're hooked, we'll likely stay Audi with at least one car and at this point, I wouldn't even care if the Acura was a better bang for the buck.... to us the Audi just beats it in many different ways and it will take a lot for Acura to have me looking in their direction again.
It appears Hyundai has taken Acura's place with the Genesis allowing people to get S-Class features (and even design) for a fraction of the cost. That's what Acura used to do...
10-20-2009, 02:29 PM
#57
Oh, and as for us being in the minority... you have a link to back that up? B/C from what I see as far as cars on the road, sales numbers, and even using this forum as an example (most OG's and even several mods are no longer in Acura's and haven't been for years) Acura has lost a bit of market share. I would never make "matter of fact" statements b/c I don't have hard data... but I'd like see your sources which allow you to make your claim that we are in the minority...
10-20-2009, 03:20 PM
#58
Originally Posted by dtc5
For those that said they won't consider Honda/Acura cars in the future, hello!? wake up! You're acutally the minority.
as long as who ever designed the current line up's still has their job.
10-20-2009, 03:31 PM
#59
Senior Moderator
I feel like I should come to the defense too since I own a TL as well.
These forums are established to express car enthusiast’s opinion. Clearly, the OP from CL did and so did most members on this thread. Everyone has their opinion about cars. Just like everyone has different taste on the style of clothing to wear. I like the TL so I drive one. Those people that think the TL is ugly probably won’t drive one. Trying to argue over these subjective matters is pointless.
I agree Honda may not know what the Acura brand is suppose to be and it may be true Acura is not class leading in anything but does it mean they are building poor quality cars that people do not want? Simply not true. Many people complaint about the 5 speed auto in Acura cars. Do we really need 8 speeds or 7 speeds auto on a car? Sure some car enthusiasts will appreciate the benefits of acceleration or fuel savings of having 1 or 2 extra gear in the transmission. But most people drive their cars casually and I really doubt the improvements will make that big of difference when driving casually. Again, Honda is in the business because they build reliable and cost efficient cars for the masses and not the small niche of car enthusiasts who likes 8 gears in their auto, RWD, or huge V8 engine. It is just not the strategy for Honda.
Now, something positive about the brand; the AWD system from Acura is quite interesting and very effective as most car journalist write positively about it. The biggest thing I regret about getting the TL is not getting it with the AWD. Anyway, the factory stock audio system in the TL is also one of the best and it even beat out some of the premium stock audio systems from other luxury brands. You can read about it here. I’m sure there are other positive things about Acura cars but these pops into my mind that actually has some credibility and not just opinions without spending too much time digging around the internet. (I am writing this from work, so pardon my gramar and speiling )
To make it sound all is lost with Honda/Acura based on the only facts they don’t offer RWD, 6+ speed transmission, V8 in production cars, etc. is a really over the top statement. This is my first time owning a Honda/Acura car (previously owned a Nissan and a Volkswagen) and I know when it is time to get my next car, I will still consider Honda/Acura. For those that said they won't consider Honda/Acura cars in the future, hello!? wake up! You're acutally the minority.
Note: I can’t even say there is a brand I won’t consider in the future. Even Chrysler with their next gen 300C and Sebring look interesting and of course Fiat branded cars. (If they manage to build any of them)
<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
These forums are established to express car enthusiast’s opinion. Clearly, the OP from CL did and so did most members on this thread. Everyone has their opinion about cars. Just like everyone has different taste on the style of clothing to wear. I like the TL so I drive one. Those people that think the TL is ugly probably won’t drive one. Trying to argue over these subjective matters is pointless.
I agree Honda may not know what the Acura brand is suppose to be and it may be true Acura is not class leading in anything but does it mean they are building poor quality cars that people do not want? Simply not true. Many people complaint about the 5 speed auto in Acura cars. Do we really need 8 speeds or 7 speeds auto on a car? Sure some car enthusiasts will appreciate the benefits of acceleration or fuel savings of having 1 or 2 extra gear in the transmission. But most people drive their cars casually and I really doubt the improvements will make that big of difference when driving casually. Again, Honda is in the business because they build reliable and cost efficient cars for the masses and not the small niche of car enthusiasts who likes 8 gears in their auto, RWD, or huge V8 engine. It is just not the strategy for Honda.
Now, something positive about the brand; the AWD system from Acura is quite interesting and very effective as most car journalist write positively about it. The biggest thing I regret about getting the TL is not getting it with the AWD
. Anyway, the factory stock audio system in the TL is also one of the best and it even beat out some of the premium stock audio systems from other luxury brands. You can read about it here. I’m sure there are other positive things about Acura cars but these pops into my mind that actually has some credibility and not just opinions without spending too much time digging around the internet. (I am writing this from work, so pardon my gramar and speiling )To make it sound all is lost with Honda/Acura based on the only facts they don’t offer RWD, 6+ speed transmission, V8 in production cars, etc. is a really over the top statement. This is my first time owning a Honda/Acura car (previously owned a Nissan and a Volkswagen) and I know when it is time to get my next car, I will still consider Honda/Acura. For those that said they won't consider Honda/Acura cars in the future, hello!? wake up! You're acutally the minority.
Note: I can’t even say there is a brand I won’t consider in the future. Even Chrysler with their next gen 300C and Sebring look interesting and of course Fiat branded cars. (If they manage to build any of them
)<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
Up until recently, there really have only been very few hiccups along the way; the naming convention and concurrent nature of the then new 3G Legend -- 1G RL -- comes to mind as a major one. While it was a disappointment to Acuraphiles, it's 2G 3.2TL sibling made up for it and saved the brand. The 3G TL pretty much raised the bar bigtime...particularly with the 3.5L motor (TL-S).
While styling is subjective (as are the desires of the car buying public), the 4G TL is generally considered by many of us here in the same regard as the 6G Nissan Maxima is to Maxima fans in that followers and admirers of the model are disappointed with the styling direction (though not powertrain and equipment package).
However, I'm not one to dismiss owning an Acura in the future but the chances of me owning the current generation TL and RL is next to nil. But, I'd love to own an MDX and the TSX V6 is '6MT/SH-AWD' away from being the ideal compact sports sedan.
10-20-2009, 04:08 PM
#60
Racer
Thread Starter
I am glad the mods changed the title because I started this thread while a little hot under the collar, NOT because I have a personal vendetta against 1sicklex but more so because he's judging a book by its cover, like many are doing here too. Personally I have read plenty of his reviews/posts and normally find them to be informative especially when it comes to something he has driven extensively.
I am a little suprised at the jilted love affair gone bad by all the Acura maniacs here. Someone should email this thread to corporate Acura so they can realize how they have lost their biggest fan base, the AZ community.
Other than that, I won't comment because I can debate back and forth until I turn blue but most have already made up their minds and the only thing Acura can do is reconsider their styling approach and hopefully gain your loyalty back.
Thanks for keeping this discussion civil.
I am a little suprised at the jilted love affair gone bad by all the Acura maniacs here. Someone should email this thread to corporate Acura so they can realize how they have lost their biggest fan base, the AZ community.
Other than that, I won't comment because I can debate back and forth until I turn blue but most have already made up their minds and the only thing Acura can do is reconsider their styling approach and hopefully gain your loyalty back.
Thanks for keeping this discussion civil.
10-20-2009, 06:23 PM
#61
I agree with him, however he sounds like he is a bitter doosh.
When I think about it, the only acura I would even consider test driving is the 07-08 tl type-s 6mt. The last acura before the TL-S that had a lasting impression on me was the legend coupe, sorry to say. And it seems their target market is getting further and further away from people like me, that want a nice looking, great performing car with the latest technology. They got 1 out of 3 there.
And I wouldn't put honda/acura into the reliable category any more than its closest competitors. I see the same old thing from all the major car brands these days. Some better than others, but not by much.
When I think about it, the only acura I would even consider test driving is the 07-08 tl type-s 6mt. The last acura before the TL-S that had a lasting impression on me was the legend coupe, sorry to say. And it seems their target market is getting further and further away from people like me, that want a nice looking, great performing car with the latest technology. They got 1 out of 3 there.
And I wouldn't put honda/acura into the reliable category any more than its closest competitors. I see the same old thing from all the major car brands these days. Some better than others, but not by much.
Last edited by Johnny_b; 10-20-2009 at 06:26 PM.
10-20-2009, 06:24 PM
#62
Senior Moderator
Honestly, it's been my experience that the CL forums tend to bash Infiniti FAR MORE than they bash Acura.
10-20-2009, 06:31 PM
#64
Who cares what they bash? Lexus owner have a certain air of superiority in my experience. The funny thing is, they are driving one of the furthest things from a "drivers car" that you can get. Save for the IS-F. Its all about appearance to most of them.
10-20-2009, 06:33 PM
#65
Doesn't really matter since pretty much every Lexus I've ever driven, past and present has been a bore to drive, though I haven't even sat in the IS-F yet. The new ones do have some straight line grunt but I get bored driving my sister's ES350 on long trips. Very nice cars, luxurious no doubt.... its just that exhilarating isn't a word I'd use to describe a Lexus.
10-20-2009, 08:14 PM
#66
Punk Rocker
Doesn't really matter since pretty much every Lexus I've ever driven, past and present has been a bore to drive, though I haven't even sat in the IS-F yet. The new ones do have some straight line grunt but I get bored driving my sister's ES350 on long trips. Very nice cars, luxurious no doubt.... its just that exhilarating isn't a word I'd use to describe a Lexus.
10-20-2009, 09:20 PM
#67
Senior Moderator
I remember the days when each generation TL would launch and it would offer stuff only $80k+ cars would have. Where have those days gone?
Like remember how Xenons were standard back in 99. That was something only high end German cars had at the time. Stuff like that had set Acura apart.
Then when the 2001 CLS was released, holy crap.. I can get xenon, navi, leather, 260hp, etc.. all for $31k?! Sign me up! In 2001 almost nothing could touch it in terms of bang for the buck.
Now we in 2009.. the TL has AWD that we all been asking for years but at what cost. $38,600 base without navi?! EEP.
/rant
Like remember how Xenons were standard back in 99. That was something only high end German cars had at the time. Stuff like that had set Acura apart.
Then when the 2001 CLS was released, holy crap.. I can get xenon, navi, leather, 260hp, etc.. all for $31k?! Sign me up! In 2001 almost nothing could touch it in terms of bang for the buck.
Now we in 2009.. the TL has AWD that we all been asking for years but at what cost. $38,600 base without navi?! EEP.
/rant
You have to keep in mind, MANY of us became Acura-philes in the early 90s when Acura showrooms were blessed with the likes of the 2G Legend and NSX. So, we've observed the 'ebb and flow' (so to speak) of Acura's product development for nearly two decades.
Up until recently, there really have only been very few hiccups along the way; the naming convention and concurrent nature of the then new 3G Legend -- 1G RL -- comes to mind as a major one. While it was a disappointment to Acuraphiles, it's 2G 3.2TL sibling made up for it and saved the brand. The 3G TL pretty much raised the bar bigtime...particularly with the 3.5L motor (TL-S).
While styling is subjective (as are the desires of the car buying public), the 4G TL is generally considered by many of us here in the same regard as the 6G Nissan Maxima is to Maxima fans in that followers and admirers of the model are disappointed with the styling direction (though not powertrain and equipment package).
However, I'm not one to dismiss owning an Acura in the future but the chances of me owning the current generation TL and RL is next to nil. But, I'd love to own an MDX and the TSX V6 is '6MT/SH-AWD' away from being the ideal compact sports sedan.
Up until recently, there really have only been very few hiccups along the way; the naming convention and concurrent nature of the then new 3G Legend -- 1G RL -- comes to mind as a major one. While it was a disappointment to Acuraphiles, it's 2G 3.2TL sibling made up for it and saved the brand. The 3G TL pretty much raised the bar bigtime...particularly with the 3.5L motor (TL-S).
While styling is subjective (as are the desires of the car buying public), the 4G TL is generally considered by many of us here in the same regard as the 6G Nissan Maxima is to Maxima fans in that followers and admirers of the model are disappointed with the styling direction (though not powertrain and equipment package).
However, I'm not one to dismiss owning an Acura in the future but the chances of me owning the current generation TL and RL is next to nil. But, I'd love to own an MDX and the TSX V6 is '6MT/SH-AWD' away from being the ideal compact sports sedan.
Or am I just getting old and the 4G TL is really what ordinary peeps want? I AM getting some gray hair strands, now....
Last edited by neuronbob; 10-20-2009 at 09:23 PM.
10-20-2009, 09:48 PM
#68
Funny I was in the third generation forum and posted in this
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/well-then-thought-might-interesting-boys-749115/
Seems its the same guy starting the thread
but he is here giving the TL-S a lot of praise.
http://clublexus.com/forums/car-chat...racetrack.html
A member here's comments.
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/well-then-thought-might-interesting-boys-749115/
Seems its the same guy starting the thread
but he is here giving the TL-S a lot of praise.
http://clublexus.com/forums/car-chat...racetrack.html
A member here's comments.
Hello guys, I am new to this forum as you probably tell already. I am also a member of the Acura forum. I saw the title of this thread and that's why I joined this forum.
First thing first, I must say the people here are are very nice and knowledgable. I have to admit that you guys are even more well-mannered than people in the Acura forum, and definitely lightyears ahead of the people at the infiniti forum. People here simply have what I called, "class." I really enjoyed reading these 8 pages of posts.
Anyways, I think someone here mentioned about the VDIM and/or some sort of stability system in the IS350 during the test. Well, what Best Motoring usually does is, they would have the system on for a couple of laps, then turn it off and do a few more laps, and compare the difference. Of course, they would only count the fastest time. Now, that's how Best Motoring does it, but I'm not sure about the magazine (XA Car). I'd assume they did it the same way since Tsuchiya, one of the Best Motoring hosts, was the one conducting all of these tests.
Another thing, the tires used on the TL-S in the VIDEO are Bridgestone Potenza RE050's, which are the STANDARD tires for the Type S models. If you prefer, you can opt for the Bridgestone Potenza RE096A tires, which have higher performance than the RE050's. One thing that we are unsure of is whether the tires used in the MAGAZINE are the same ones in the VIDEO. We can't simply assume the TL-S used the better tires while the G35 and IS350 used the standard tires just because the TL-S was 2 seconds faster. Like many have said, tires are important for lap times, but other factors are also important too. Remember, the NSX-R is capable of running 7:56 on Nurburgring, which is the same as a Porsche 911 GT3 (old 996 model) even though the power to weight ratio favors the GT3 by a large margin.
Anyways, this is a great thread, I will definitely keep on checking! :thumbup:
First thing first, I must say the people here are are very nice and knowledgable. I have to admit that you guys are even more well-mannered than people in the Acura forum, and definitely lightyears ahead of the people at the infiniti forum. People here simply have what I called, "class." I really enjoyed reading these 8 pages of posts.
Anyways, I think someone here mentioned about the VDIM and/or some sort of stability system in the IS350 during the test. Well, what Best Motoring usually does is, they would have the system on for a couple of laps, then turn it off and do a few more laps, and compare the difference. Of course, they would only count the fastest time. Now, that's how Best Motoring does it, but I'm not sure about the magazine (XA Car). I'd assume they did it the same way since Tsuchiya, one of the Best Motoring hosts, was the one conducting all of these tests.
Another thing, the tires used on the TL-S in the VIDEO are Bridgestone Potenza RE050's, which are the STANDARD tires for the Type S models. If you prefer, you can opt for the Bridgestone Potenza RE096A tires, which have higher performance than the RE050's. One thing that we are unsure of is whether the tires used in the MAGAZINE are the same ones in the VIDEO. We can't simply assume the TL-S used the better tires while the G35 and IS350 used the standard tires just because the TL-S was 2 seconds faster. Like many have said, tires are important for lap times, but other factors are also important too. Remember, the NSX-R is capable of running 7:56 on Nurburgring, which is the same as a Porsche 911 GT3 (old 996 model) even though the power to weight ratio favors the GT3 by a large margin.
Anyways, this is a great thread, I will definitely keep on checking! :thumbup:
10-20-2009, 10:05 PM
#69
Instructor
...Oh, and as for us being in the minority... you have a link to back that up? B/C from what I see as far as cars on the road, sales numbers, and even using this forum as an example (most OG's and even several mods are no longer in Acura's and haven't been for years) Acura has lost a bit of market share. I would never make "matter of fact" statements b/c I don't have hard data... but I'd like see your sources which allow you to make your claim that we are in the minority...
10-21-2009, 09:33 AM
#70
Meh, you read my comment completely incorrect. I don't really need a link to back up what I'm saying. The reason is if you compare the amount of people NOT going to consider Acura cars because they don’t offer “driver” car to the people who will still consider Acura brand in the USA, because they are luxurious, offer adequate performance, and good value for the money you are the minority.
Lastly, you may want to re-read a majority of the replies in this topic... then spend some time searching the dozens of similar topics which have been discussed over the years and you'll see that many people, especially Car Talk residents (who were mostly all Acura fans years ago) no longer agree that Acura is a good value for the money... which is why most of Car Talk is now made up of non-Acura owners. Additionally, many of those same people do not think Acura when they think luxury. This is also the general feeling with the automotive public. Tell 10 people you own a luxury car... at least 7 of them will guess Audi, BMW, Lexus, or Mercedes. Open any magazine and 9 times out of 10 the comparisons being made involve one of those nameplates.
I believe that is the point that 1sicklex and others on this forum are making. Acura still has a great business model and will continue to be very successful, but they have slipped over the years and got away from the core which made them so great (and desirable) 5-8 years ago.
That sounds like something I would have written!
10-21-2009, 04:24 PM
#73
Someday, an RS6 Avant+
JB: nice summary. And that leads the whole discussion.
Wether 1clublex is right or wrong in his attitude is not the point. There are valid points, and a lot of people here in Car Talk owned Acuras, and now don't because of what a lot of people here are saying: They (Acura) do not offer vehicles that are on par with Audi for features, some zip like BMW, and a price a good amount lower. They don't offer something that is desired.
Think of it this way: everyone knows that fat girl in school. While she may be the smartest and have the best personality, you will not get close because the exterior is not attractive. Same holds for Acura.
Over here, a Honda Legend runs about $60K, and an Inspire (V6 Accord) runs $35K plus all of the extra fees. Feck, a Accord Euro R (TSX) runs $30K plus options. I just do not see a valid trade off.
Wether 1clublex is right or wrong in his attitude is not the point. There are valid points, and a lot of people here in Car Talk owned Acuras, and now don't because of what a lot of people here are saying: They (Acura) do not offer vehicles that are on par with Audi for features, some zip like BMW, and a price a good amount lower. They don't offer something that is desired.
Think of it this way: everyone knows that fat girl in school. While she may be the smartest and have the best personality, you will not get close because the exterior is not attractive. Same holds for Acura.
Over here, a Honda Legend runs about $60K, and an Inspire (V6 Accord) runs $35K plus all of the extra fees. Feck, a Accord Euro R (TSX) runs $30K plus options. I just do not see a valid trade off.
10-21-2009, 05:39 PM
#74
I believe that is the point that 1sicklex and others on this forum are making. Acura still has a great business model and will continue to be very successful, but they have slipped over the years and got away from the core which made them so great (and desirable) 5-8 years ago.
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